Training & Flying in America: Visa information
 

I am writing this thread because there is still much confusion about what the requirements are to fly or train in the U.S.A. Please do not let the length of this post stop you from reading it. Look at numbers 1 to 5, to decide whether or not need a Visa. If you are required to have a Visa, it is very important to make sure you understand the steps you must follow. The process is straight forward and there are people that will help you every step of the way.

On the 12th of April 2002 the immigration rules changed and affected flight training in the U.S.A.

Who needs a Visa and what type will you need:

1) If you are coming to hour build or a flying holiday and have a FAA Licence or an FAA licence issued on the basis of your Foreign Licence, you can enter the country on a Visa Waiver and fly as long as you meet the F.A.R.s. (BFR, Medical, etc.)

2) If you need to convert your licence to a Restricted F.A.A. Licence, you will need to submit the request to the F.A.A. in Oklahoma City so they can do a full background check; this process takes upwards of 60 days. If you get the o.k. to convert your licence you can enter the country on a Visa Waiver.

If you do not have the time to wait to convert your licence, you can take the F.A.A. Written Test and the Flight Test in order to get an Unrestricted F.A.A. Licence. In order to do this you will need to be on an F-1, M-1, or J-1 Visa. (Since you are seeking a Licence/Rating)

If you decide not to convert your licence and just fly on an F.A.A. Student Solo Certificate, you will once again need to be on an F-1, M-1, or J-1 Visa. (Since it is a Student Licence)

3) Going to the U.S.A. in order to train for a J.A.A. or F.A.A. Licence. You must be on a F-1, M-1, J-1 Visa. (Since you are seeking a Licence/Rating)

4) If you are coming to the U.S.A. in order to revalidate you licence, either F.A.A. or J.A.A., you can come on a Visa Waiver since that is a currency requirement and you are not adding a Rating/Licence. This is subject to change since the authorities are looking at this situation and there are people in I.N.S. which want this to require a Visa.

5) If you have entered the U.S.A. on holiday and while here decided to do flight training. Should you want to train in the U.S.A. after you arrive in the U.S.A. and are on a B Visa, you can apply to change your status to F-1/M-1/J-1 Visa and must wait till your status is changed before you can begin training. If you entered the U.S.A. on a Visa Waiver, you will have to leave the country, obtain the appropriate Visa and then return to train. The Visa Waiver is NOT a Visa and therefore you do not have a Visa to change status on.

Where do you find the information:

If you have any questions about what Visas you are required to have, contact the U.S. Embassy in your country. They are the direct source. Anything else is "hear say", even this thread is technically "hear say". The U.S. Embassy will give you definitive answers on any requirements on entering the U.S.A.

The most common Visa for J.A.A. flight training in the U.S.A. is the M-1 Visa. Here is a thread which I posted on October 03, 2001 explaining the M-1 Visa:

M-1 Visa Explained

The changes since that thread was posted are:

When you go to the Embassy you need to bring:

1) A letter from the school you are going to attend listing the max takeoff weight of the aircraft or simulator you are going to train in.

2) Completed Form DS-0156

3) Completed Form DS-0158

4) Completed Form DS-0157 (If you are Male between the ages of 16 and 45)

This process will take on average 7 to 10 days.

What are the actual INS Regulations:

These are the rules which were added on 12th of April 2002 by FR 11-02 in order to close the loopholes in flight training:

Requiring Change of Status From B to F-1 or M-1 Nonimmigrant Prior to Pursuing a Course of Study

The changes were made to:

8 CFR PART 214 -- NONIMMIGRANT CLASSES

and

8 CFR PART 248 -- CHANGE OF NONIMMIGRANT CLASSIFICATION


The Visa Waiver Program:

8 CFR PART 217 -- VISA WAIVER PROGRAM

Note the Visa Waiver Program does not allow any training of any kind in the U.S.A.

If anyone tells you to lie to the Immigration Officer when you enter the country (ie. say you are on holiday), that means they know the Laws and are knowingly telling you to Violate them. Be sure to check with the U.S. Embassy if you have any questions.

I hope this helps anyone wanting to fly in the U.S.A. enter the U.S.A. correctly.

Happy Flying,

Capt. Richard J. Gentil, Pres.
Naples Air Center, Inc.

Additional USA Non-Immigrant Visa Application Process
 

Hello All,

The US Embassy in London has introduced an additional requirement for the application of Non-Immigrant Visas this month (January 2003).

They now require *all* applicants between the ages of sixteen and fifty nine to attend the Embassy with all required paperwork for a formal interview with regards to the application. Sixteen to Fifty Nine year olds are no longer able to apply for Non-Immigrant Visa's (inc M-1) by post.

URL: http://www.usembassy.org.uk/cons_web.../interview.htm

I thought it would be wise to let you all know, even though those of you who will be applying for this type of visa will be checking the US Embassy website for the latest information.

This information is for UK people only, I am unable to comment on applications from other countries / citizens.

CZ,

Since you are obviously going through this process at the moment, can you give us an idea how long the whole thing takes, from start to end? Or is it too soon for you to have a good idea yet?

(I'm thinking of going to the US to do some training towards the end of this year. Haven't made a definite decision yet, but will obviously need to make that decision in plenty of time to get the paperwork sorted out!)

Thanks,

FFF
-----------

As far as I am aware the visa should be approved and issued within a couple fo days after the interview.

I was speaking to someone who had their interview yesterday and he said that his interview was quite a relaxed affair, about 10 minutes in total. The worst part was waiting around for an 1 and a half hours for his number to be called out. They also informed him that his application was successful and they would be sending out his visa yesterday evening. (I'm not sure if he has received it yet though). However I am not sure if this is normal as they do say on the embassy website that it will take a couple of days to process the application.

So in total the process has taken me 10 weeks, probably a total of 3 months by the time it has been issued. But I am sure you could get the process down to 4-5 weeks if you don't delay it like I did!!!

Yes, that timescale is about right. I applied to NAC at the beginning of December and received the I-20 about 10 days later. I thought I’d be really organized and get all the visa forms in advance, so I was just waiting on the I-20 – until I discovered my passport had gone AWOL. :eek:

New passport issued 30th December, and 1st available interview at the embassy was the 14th of Jan. As CZ says, the only hassle with the appointment is the hanging around for nearly 2 hours, waiting to be seen. The interview itself was very brief, and they confirmed there and then I would get the visa – it duly turned up a couple of days later.

All fairly painless.

G-SXTY,

When are you going to NAC and which courses are you going over for? I'm going on the 26th April for a month...

Just under a week to my interview, hopefully they'll give me a yes or no at my interview also.

FlyingForFun,

Good luck with the exams.

I'd be tempted to go and do my JAR CPL over in the USA as well, but I'm not sure if it'll be worth my while as with an FAA CPL/IR I'll have quite a lot of flying credit towards the JAA CPL/IR course. Just a shame I'll still be required to do the JAA ATPL exams. :-)

VISA
 

Other than the fact everyone here is going to NAC (and who can blame them - from expeirence - first class operation), I hope to go to the US and do a course in a smaller operation that doesn't have VISA approval. Does this close off all avenues?

I will be recording P1 throughout the course and already have a FAA flight-test issued ticket.

VT

If the training you are going to be undertaking will lead towards a licence, be it an FAA or other such as JAA, then my belief is that you will most definately require a Visa.

In order to obtain, say an M-1 visa you will require a flight school who are approved to send out I20M forms, these forms are required to apply to the US Embassy for your visa, without one the US Embassy will not issue an M-1 visa.

IIRC a BFR doesn't count as training towards a licence as you already have the licence, you are just revalidating it.

I already have an M-1 visa for flying in the US. My passport ran out last week and just wondering if anyone knows if the M-1 visa in my old passport is still valid when used with my new one. I got my new passport in through the post today. I thought I would ask here before ringing the US Embassy Visa line at £1.50per/min for advice.

Thanks

The info you need is here

Hai M1 > J1
 

Hello.....
I have just spent a couple of hrs going through the posts, and have found the majority inspiring, and some made me a chuckle .
I am a wannabe, and am studying all aspects of training. I am 35 have a UK law degree, and am detirmed to commence training later this year.
Have looked at all the posts in respect of age, Canada, Austalia, and the US.
The majority of my questions have been answered, and some elements covered questions I should be asking. Ta
One area I would like some input on, is the option of US training with HAI.
Sounds like a good school with good options, however in one post it suggested that it's possible to get an M-1, train, then convert to J-1 toward the latter part of the course, which gives the maximum 24 Months to build hours under the ambit of a CFI(I),any input would be greatly recieved.

Still hammering my through the posts and found this from ClearBlueWater.........

"HandyAndyUK, one thing is for certain there will never be an easy way to become a helo pilot. Given a fairly typical profile, when you're in your 20s you've got the time but you can't afford it. When you're in your 30s your wife (or other) and kids will demand some of your time, hamper mobility for that elusive first job and you still can't afford it without taking on enormous debt. In your 40s the kids need stability and moving to the bhundu for the first job is not a practical option, also you still can't afford it and you've got less time left to pay off the accumulated debt. In your 50s you're too old to get the first job (usually). In a nutshell it is not going to get any easier by waiting for tomorrow, if anything it just gets harder.

At the end of the day you'll never justify embarking on the venture from a reasoned position so it's not a decision for the head, it's a decision for the heart.

You don't regret what you've done only what you didn't do.

As ever you've got to be in to win."

Insipiration at its best.

I don't know the specifics but the J-1 is offered as I understand it on the basis of HAI's part 141 programme (FAA integrated professional training programme).

If you take the M-1 option to do part of the training, you then could only qualify for a J-1 if you started from scratch again, which of course would be totally pointless since you'd be covering a number of qualifications you already have.

It's a few months ago now, but I think there may have been some time restriction between VISA applications too (possibly several years).

Either way, it's a good idea to talk with the school direct since they'll have dealt with a few things. Also given the jumpiness in the US right now regarding foreigners, I would be careful not to put yourself on the wrong side of the INS. The US embassy website also has a fair bit of data.

Have fun.

r.

Its good to see you are thinking of utilising visas the best way possible. I would advise getting an M1 visa to begin with for the majority of your training, get most of the JAA school work done and get your FAA private license done either before or during your JAA training. Then when you are ready to get your FAA commercial, go and get the J1 visa, as you cant get a J1 after you have your FAA commercial license, so they say! then you will only have a few months left of school, and you get your CFI and instrument and have at least 18 months visa working time, to get some good hour building.
Good luck with it all. Let me know if you need any help with info on the visas or the school.

Thanks for your post.

I have not completley disregarded the USA, however I am now studying NZ & OZ.

From what I can fathom, the NZ licence is highly regarded in the industry, its just that I am in that age old place, with ancient questions such as which is the best route toward that first job, seek CFI first or operational expereience then CFI.

It's a tough place, and tough decision's to be made.

Dont want to end up on the rubbish heap, with 150hrs.

When I jump in I need it to be right.

Thanks for your offer of assistence, I have been looking at HAI in florida, and may indeed need to come back and pick your brains...
:uhoh:

I am a current HAI student (very near the CFI checkride)

HAI is a great place to do the J1 thing. While the numbers dictate that not every graduate of HAI will end up working at HAI, so far I have seen every J1 student get a job somewhere in the US (if that was their goal).

Since HAI is also a JAA training facility, if someone on a J1 visa gets work there, they can then train toward their JAA license while they work as a CFI.

So while you can't count on getting hired by any school that trains you, if you put in a good effort and stand out as a student, pilot, and CFI candidate, there's no better place for opportunity than HAI.

(Can you tell I like the place?)

Have just phoned HAI.....sounds like you have a good instructor turnaround...5 off to Texas......

Very appealing:ok:

The slick marketing department may have forgotten to tell you that they were all very experienced American instructors and it is the first movement of Instructors in nearly a year!

Autosync.

With so many choices of schools, and routes into the industry, and with the with a glut of candidates for employment, the decision making process on schools is nothing short of a waking nightmare:sad:

However an indication of movement is better than none, and indeed the slick marketing have just called me and spent an hour on the phone from the USA to the UK where we thrashed out possible routes, and the upshot was that it would be better for me to do my PPL elsewhere, in respect of my particular circumstances and aspirations. (Kind Note to Samantha) :ok:

Hi autosynch,

You are perhaps a little pessemistic - we have two Americans and two J1 guys going to Tex-Air, we had another J1 guy go to Barbados (a very sweet ride) this December, we have another J1 guy going to Columbia (the operator) to fly co-bubba in Chinooks in March.

Between May 2002 - May 2003 we sent two to Temsco, one chose to move to and teach in New Jersey (couldn't tell you why), one went to fly an R-44 in Orlando. Four more went back to Europe with their JAA ratings. There may be one or two others, but that's all I can remember right now.

Anyway, like I said, there is never a guarantee of a job, nor is one implied - there are sometimes stretches of a month or two where there are no new CFIs hired, then (like last month) there may be four hired in as many weeks.

So that's my story, and I'm sticking to it!:ok:

flingwing
Sorry to burst your bubble but you will find all the guys who move on to large operators are either Green card holders or U.S citizens.
Very few European graduates will ever get any turbine time or work for a large company in the U.S with just a J1 visa.

but maybe you will prove me wrong, best of luck with the rest of your training

It isn't my bubble, autosynch - just what I've seen happen.

However, in looking at my post, I can see where it looks like I was saying that ALL those pilots were J1 folks. Not what I intended - you are right, most of those folks are US citizens or green-card holders - most of the J1 folks I know have gotten CFI jobs only (the two at Tex-Air are probably green-card holders as you said).

Mostly I just wanted to point out that there is a healthy turnover at HAI - I can definitely list fifteen instructors moving on in the last 12 months.

This may be off topic slightly and indeed may need to be moved to the wananbe's section. However, in talking about HAI, I have to admit, there seems to be very few schools that I have seen no negative comments posted on this and other forums and HAI is one of those schools. I plan to visit them in the next month or so.

But my question is this, most schools use the R22 primarily as their training helicopter and although HAI have these available, it seems they use the Schweizer for their FAA and CAA/JAA primary training aircraft. Now, as we know, in the US, the vast majority of low time heli pilots get jobs as instructors. Therefore wouldn't the R22 be a better aircraft to train in as the majority of jobs would be for R22 instructors? How do you feel about this limiting the available jobs for graduates to schools who use the Schweizer (assuming that HAI doesn't employ you). And with the 200 hour minimum in the R22 you cant just do a conversion to the Robbie and start instructing. Curious to what you all think.

Thanks.

Hi 1skydive,

Your observation is correct - most schools are using R.22s, and most of them are using insurance which requires 200 hours in the R.22.

There are a few more 300CBi's popping up as people figure out that the CBi is as cheap to run as the R.22 over the long haul, but currently the R.22 still dominates the training landscape.

If you go through from beginning to CFII at HAI, you can do your instrument, commercial, and CFII training in either the 300 or the R22 - depending on your choice (and how much you fly in your IFR and Com), you can have anywhere from 50 to 100 hours in the R.22 (I did the IFR and will do the CFII and will probably have about 75 R.22 hours, vs about 130 300CB hours).

There are R.22 schools who will hire you with less than 200 hours, and there are schools with the 200-hour requirement who will make some effort to get you some flying time in other ways (photo flights, etc). There are also Schweizer schools contacting HAI fairly regularly, looking for CFIs.

But the bottom line is, you may indeed have a tougher time finding that first job if you do all your training in the 300CB - that's the choice you have to make, for the time being.

I'm at HAI at the moment too. I know a couple of guys who changed their M1 to a J1 without too much trouble.

As for those off to tex air, one was a JAA instructor and English. But on the whole it seems that the school is well known in US and a llot of people get job offers.:ok:

J-1 VISA with 200h TT and CPL?
 

Hi

I’m from Europe and want to build hours as a CFI in the US. The thing is that I actually have a US CPL with about 200 hours TT.
I know about 3 helicopter flight schools which give their students a J-1 VISA. One in Oregon, one in Titusville and one in Fort Lauterdale.
At his point I’m not very interesting for a school because I won’t need much training for a CFI or CFII license, and maybe they are not able to give me a J-1.

My questions are:

-are there other schools than the 3 named above which offer a
J-1?

-are there any limitations like an hour-limit?

-is it possible to convert an H-VISA to J-VISA

I searched the forums but didn’t get the desired informations. I heard that there is a fourth school offering J-1 but I didn’t found the name yet.


Thank you, and fly safe …

I wouldn't try to second-guess what the immigration laws are. I recommend you contact a US immigration attorney and ask their advice. There are a number of ways to legally work here as a temporary resident. It all depends on what qualifications you offer.

PM me if you want a recommendation for an attorney that will be able to give you sound advice.

Sign yourself up for an ATPL (H) Course, you should be able to build hours towards that?

I think you can enter on the visa 2 weeks before the visa date starts.

what visa?
 

I would be grateful if someone could explain the difference between the m1 and j1 visas for study in the states.
Im thinking i might do the HAI thing for hours building, CFI etc. They offer the j1 which sounds good, but there are other schools offering the m1. The j1 offered at HAI is clearly better as every man and his monkey seems to say its worked for them but why is it better than the m1?
Plain English preffered!!!

:confused:

That place in Oregon is Hillsboro aviation

Thanks Hands on..
i'll look in to those other schools (seems unfair that HAI get all the attention!).
:ok:

Hi there,
just with regards to HAI. I'm here at the moment and after everything I had heard about their reputation I have to admit I'm deeply disappointed. Basically it's a constant up hill struggle to get the hours in, either because of availability of ships or instructors. It definately has not lived up to it's rep. So I join you on looking around for a better school, something I thought I had already done!:(

Good Luck!

Visa information: Click HERE.

One of these days, I am looking into HAI or Hillsboro at present, I spoke to HAI and was concerned about scheduling but they told me they had a number of new aircraft on order and that these were starting to be delivered. Is this increase in aircraft enough in your opinion to sort out the problem?

Thanks to all those for the visa info...


The feedback about HAI is interesting to read, especially from those who are currently there. But is there anyone there at the moment who is coming to the end of their training or who has done the HAI thing and used the J1 visa for instructing, successfully and gained the hourage they wanted in a 'reasonable' time frame....Would be good to hear some upbeat stories.

2 hours a week? !! what do you spend the rest of your time doing? Is there much going on in the swamp?.....ahhh Disneyworld.
;)

I went the HAI route ten years ago. I came on an M1, did my private, went home for break, (less than a month) and came back on a J1. It gave me almost 2 1/2 years. I'm not sure if it's possible now but it's worth checking into.

Phil-J,
it is true that there are additional Helicopters on order, and indeed some have been delivered already. I believe that the delivery has been delayed from the manufacturer so not HAI's fault. The other problem at the moment is the amount of JAA instructors that have recently left due to visa's running out. I'm holding my breath with HAI because of the reputation they have and I hope that the problems being experienced at the moment are short lived and will be sorted out soon. However I have certainly started to think about a contingency plan if all goes to pot.

The M1+J1 thing to achieve 2 1/2 years is still an option, there are folks here that are doing exactly that. You will also need to arrange permission to train in the USA. This is a new thing that costs $130 through the Transport Safety Agency(TSA) and it is seperate to the visa requirement. Once permission has been granted you then have to have your fingerprints taken by the police on arrival in the US. About a week later (after arrival) you should be granted permission to train.

One of these Days
:ok:

I am one of those guys who went over to the US from the Uk, I am just coming up to the end of my visa (a j-1) now.

I finished my CFI training with them and am now working as an instructor with them.

My school is fully supportive in me trying to gain another visa to extend my stay and continue working for them. So while I am not shure about any where else Not caring about you leaving here they are intresed in keeping me on just like the last two European instructors they have had here.

I am short of My 1000 Hours but that is through no fault of there's i Had two bouts of illness while here that kept me on the ground for 4 months including a stint in hospital.

Sorry forgot to say, You cant change your training to a non J-1 school, you can transfer to another approved school though.

Its a pain to do as the person that deals with this with in the US goverment denys that you can, even though there is a section on the J-1 form for transfering to another school.

Restrictions on J1 US visa?
 

Hi,
Could anyone point me in the direction of a detailed description of what a CPL student can do upon course completion while on a J1 visa, and what not? (I've searched here, but "J1" is too short for the search engine.)

I know it allows a person to work in the professional field for which they've trained under the issuance of the visa, but what I'm not clear on is whether it is restricted to instructing.

I know that practically it is, since I wouldn't get hired under 1000 hours, which I'd need to instruct to attain, but what then, could I do a bit of charter work if the opportunity came up?

Thanks,

Si