colourblind confusion???
 

So i can not fly professionally in the uk/europe as i am red/green colour blind, however this is ok in america and australia? is this right? ifso.....

Are colour blind airline pilots that fly out of australia (for example) to uk allowed to land a plane here? take off from here? fly in european airspace? ifso then to me this seems pretty silly as colourblind pilots must still be flying all over the place anyway! why ban it in the uk if pilots are flying in from elswere and flying in europe, seems like were just stopping our own "could be" pilots.:confused:

please tell me iv misunderstood this. :confused:

The above is incorrect - both the FAA and UK CAA Class 1 (ATP) medicals include colour vision tests.

If you are red/green colourblind it is, I believe, possible to work in the UK as a microlight instructor, gliding instructor, or a commercial balloon pilot.

G

cessnasey your absolutley correct but do you think the Campaign Against Aviation will do anything about it? I don't think so!
However don't be too depressed as you can do IMC whilst being "color unsafe", which is a great thing to learn and can lead to some more useful and more satisfying flying than normal.

The American FAA final test is very fair. If you fail the plates,you can take an outdoors test where you are taken outside onto a airfield and they flash the tower lights and you have to tell the examiner what color was just shown.
If you get them correct,you're granted a waiver for life.

Cool huh :ok:

so, if i was to get an faa class 1, would i be able to fly from uk with an american airline?

As far as I understand things yes, you would have no problems doing that. Even small bizjet operators based in the UK, on the N register like Netjets would be an option.

Very restrictive though....

red green colour blindness
 

I'm partially red green colour blind, enough at least to prevent me flying at night. My only experience of this (during training in the USA) was disconcerting for both me and my instructor: the PAPI lights were white over white at all altitudes, and I tried to line up on the taxiway on final on one occasion. I'll stick to my PFA bus and accept its limitations !
This summer in Groningen I noticed that the tower had very heavily tinted windows. Precisely what I'd have seen if they'd flashed me I have no idea. When 10% of the male population have problems discriminating between red and green, why oh why have these 2 colours become the internationally agreed go / stop signals ?? Yellow and blue would be my choice.

Lots of info in the colour blindness thread in the medical forum

Click here!

About 10 pages of info there!
From memory, yes you would get the fully 100% unrestricted FAA Class 1 if you passed their outdoor test, and presently there are pilots flying 767 / 777s for US airlines into the UK / European coutries who would not be able to if subject to our medical requirements.

But for it to be useful for commercial operations you'd need to get FAA PPL,IR/MULTI & ATP Certificates from the start. The licence can't be based on a european one.

Also consider that the pilot job market is tough enough to begin with, starting with US operator only handicap will be very hard going.

However if you really want to do it I really wish you the best of luck.

no i would never go for an ATPL based on "maybe il get a job with an american airline". im just trying to understand the rules and regs. im happy with going for a PPL at the moment. its just hard to except that i can never take it further.

also the CAA rules on colour defective pilots dont make much sense to me if other colour blind pilots are flying in and out of europe. but hey like i said, im happy flying cessna's!:ok:

Cessnasey - This is an area that is different for each individual due to the differing types of CVD that occur and also due to the different degrees that people are affected (not the same for all )

Your basic understanding is correct but my advice is to just keep on flying ! You might like to think about the "British" astronaut Michael Foal (I think that is his name) - Son of a UK RAF pilot, problem with eyesight meant that he could not gain a flying post with the RAF - wanted to be an astronaut - went to US and decided to pursue his dream

Bit of an extreme example I know but one that is quite inspirational and shows how determination and focus can overcome adversity (also shows how different countries vary on their views on so called medical limitations - i.e. Pessimistic or down right optimistic

In the USA the latter viewpoint strongly prevails !

WR, I'm exactly the same as you....I never knew it until I tried to join Her Maj's Flying Club....bit of bummer to find out you are "permenantly unfit aircrew" at age 18

However, I've gone on to get a PPL & IMC and Class 2 medical without any probs - can't have a night rating though.

In another life, I used to drive a lot around RAF airfields, and was again initially categorised as unsafe (I always fail the Isihara on about the 3rd page!) - however, I was passed as OK by individual SATCO's on appeal/protestation!

I'm classified as red/green deficient, although as far as I can tell I can see them as well as the next man. The only area where I am sometimes aware of problems is mixtures of dark green/brown/black - my Wife often tells me off for dressing the kids in colours that don't match!

Cessnasey: are you really colour blind? That is, have you have the lantern tests?

Cessnasey, the procedure is to test the pilot with the old 24-plate Ishihara Test (most probably the dreaded test that failed you).

If 3 or more mistakes are made, the Lantern Test (Farnsworth Lantern or Edridge-Green Lantern) should be conducted. Most borderline cases (Red-Greens especially) are then granted a "pass" based on these lantern tests.

In case of a pass by the Lantern method, you are accorded a "CP III", which from my research is ICAO "Colour Perception III".

All of the above is for a Commercial (Civil Aviation) Pilot, one looking for a Class 1 Medical that will allow one to fly even the big birds with an airline (like I do).

This does not apply to Military Pilots as the tolerance levels there are "zero".

All of the above is from my personal experience and annual Medicals (once dreaded, now happily conducted) :)

Funny you should mention zero tolerance in the military because I used to fly with a serving (now retired) RAF officer FJ Instructor whose colour vision was worse than mine - he was quite open about it and the fact that there were 'ways and means'.

However, I digress and on to the subject in hand.

FAA System -

1. Ishihara or other recognised pseudo-isochromatic plates.
2. Farnsworth or other recognised Lantern Test - 2 lights at a time - 3 colours.
3. SODA - Statement of Demonstrated Ability, i.e. Practical light test at airfield by FAA Inspector

JAA System -

1. Ishihara (currently checking whether other recognised pseudo-isochromatic plates may be accepted).
2. Beynes Lantern Test - 1 light at a time - 5 colours.
3. Holmes-Wright Lantern Test - 2 lights at a time - 3 colours.

Note that the respective lantern tests under the FAA and JAA systems are NOT accepted by the other, i.e. a pass on the Farnsworth will not get you a JAA Class 1 and vice versa.

I love the argument about foreign pilots who do not meet the medical standards for the UK (or any other JAA country for that matter) being allowed to fly in UK airspace. If something did go pear shaped and a serious accident occurred which was put down to colour vision deficiency, who would be at fault?

One other thing, when thinking about going down the FAA route, apart from any flying instructor experience on an approved programme under the J1 visa scheme, without US nationality how would you be able to work in the USA? Surely US airlines are not going to recruit foreign pilots in preference to home grown, regardless of where they did their training.

And as for operating a N-Reg Bizjet in the UK, I think you'll find that the new ANO 2005 states that you still need a JAA CPL to work in a commercial role in the UK.

HM Forces colour vision standards
 

Hi all,

Just a quick query to some of you who might be in the know but I've read a few times on here about people who have been able to 'bend' the rules so to speak on medical grounds for the RAF/FAA/AAC, including colour vision.

I myself am CP3 having failed the ishihara test but passing the lantern. At 22 I feel like time is running out with the option of the forces having previously thought that there was no chance.

Is anyone able to validate the above, or at least does anybody have any decent links/contacts that I could be put through to ake this further as (like man here I'm sure) cannot explain the conviction I have in pursuing this career!!

Thanks in advance guys and gals

BC
:ok:

There is some anecdotal evidence of, as you say, rule bending... but in many cases it's for people who are already in the forces not fresh applicants. Truth is for every such story there are dozens that tell of people getting rejected on strict medical grounds; soryy to say, but you should expect the worst?

I was in the same position when in HMF (Cabbage Suit Branch) and was led to believe that you required pefect colour vision. Being CP3 myself I thought that precluded me from a flying career.

But I had made the fatal error of believing Rumour Control for far too many years.

When I finally got to the point where I decided it was time to test the evidence with my own eyes, i.e. Army General Administrative Instructions, I read in black and white that CP3 was the required level for army heli crew. Unfortunately, by this time I had missed the boat on age limit which was then 32 by completion of training.

I believe the RAF and RN require perfect colour vision - nil errors on Ishihara.

My advice would be go and talk to someone on the inside who has access to the hard facts. Why not get in touch with the Aviation Medicine Division of the armed forces, which I understand is now a tri-services organisation.

Following up from my earlier post, I can now confirm that the only pseudo-isochromatic plates test acceptable by the CAA is the Ishihara test, which, on fail, would be followed by the Beynes and Holmes-Wright Lantern Tests.

hello,
I've been reading lot's of posts about color blindness but I need to know something more, which is really important for me since I'm booked at the CAA in Gatwick for an initial class 1.
Here it comes: I obtained my italian class 1 last year and did 1 renewal already, and even though I've found some difficulty in recongnizing a few numbers on the Ishihara test (I had some trouble with red/green ) I have got my medical and I actually fly my PPL.
But, I'm a little scared about what may happen at Gatwick .
First of all, is there anybody who's able to tell me what sort of test do they use to check color vision? Do they prefer ISHIHARA o FALANT test? Or what else?
Are docs so strict or are they more "magnanimous" since an initial class 1 costs 250£?
I'm really worrying about that and I'd really like you to give me some tips!
Hope to receive any response ASAP;-)

If you already hold a class 1 medical then you don't need to do another CAA initial medical. They will issue you a CAA class 1 on the strength of your italian JAA one, all you have to do is fill in the paper work.