Uhhmm.. Isn´t it SA-365? Sud-Aviation not Aerospatiale!

JAR-FCL 2.220 app. 1. only specifies SA365 for the series.

SA 365N - Sud Aviation
AS 365N1 - Aerospatiale
AS 365N2 - "
AS 365N3 - "
AS 365N4 (EC 155) - Eurocopter

Depends where you want to fl;y them really, but I like all the variants of the N model SA365.
From the pax viewpoint as a corporate machine it's nice and smooth, but the cabin is rather lacking in headroom except for the 2 rear facing passengers in the 5 seat VIP interior. It is possible to gain more room, but at the expense of range as it involves sacrificing some fuel tank space.
From the operating poi8nt of view they all have the same basic autopilot (perfectly adequate even in basic form) and pretty similar cruise sppeds, in the region of 150 knots in Europe. On hotter climes, the cruise spped does decrease a bit, but so does the fuel burn. Just to give you an idea, in the part of the world where I now operate (West africa) we use as basic block planning figures:
SA365N 130 kts Fuel burn 265 kg/hr
SA365N1 130 kts Fuel burn 275 kg/hr
SA365N2 135 kts Fuel burn 280 kg/hr
SA365N3 140 kts Fuel burn 305 kg/hr
The standard fuel tanks are the same for all variants, with a capacity of 915 kg, so you'll see that the N3 suffers a bit in terms of range - but it's wonderful in the mountains!!
Whe4n I started flying 365N series, all the new variants were SA365N... but some years later the new RFMs came out labelled as AS365.... For me, they all go in my logbook as SA365.... My 3 personal flight manuals from factory courses on N, N1 and N2 are all SA365....
But, I digress. I think it's a lovely pilots' machine and although probably not quite as good as the S76 from a passenger point of view in terms of cabin space, it's smoother, almost as fast, tough, low on maintenance and overall one of my favourite machines of all time :ok:

How does the EC155 compare to the 365 N series? Much of a leap?

Even though it's a nice machine to fly, never found them to be low on maintenance. If it's a single ship operation make sure you have a good line of spares and good access to ongoing support. All the very best

Flytest,

How much approx. will a HUMS retrofit system cost installed for an N2?

HUMS AS365
 

Why HUMS if UMS is enough? There is a big difference in cost & installation.

Hi Tox,

I agree that if you just operate one or two ships it's a good idea to keep a good supply of spares for anything Eurocopter because their AOG system and spares supply in general leaves a lot to be desired, even with improvements they claim to have made. I still think they're pretty low on maintenance though, compared with other modernish medium helicopters like the S76 and Bell 412, compared with which they only need about 60% of the daily maintenance. The N3 seems to be more of a problem because of the problems every helicopter with Arriel 2 series engines in hot climates has with passing power assurance. It would be interesting to hear what the major problems are on Dauphin fleets in different geographical locations.

AS365
 

Does anyone have experience with retrofit of the 10 blade Quiet Fenestron to a AS365N2? (standard fit on an N3)
Since installation, we are getting reports of a high freq at the pedals at higher speeds, OK in the hover or low speeds.
TR Balance is below 0.1 ips. Unable to notice anything unusual on a spectrum scan at hover or at different airspeeds. Hub and blades are new and fully "mod"ed.
I was wondering if this might be something inherent. Anyone have any similar problems?

I certainly endorse the comments on EC support and spares. After most of my career working on Bells http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/...cons/icon7.gif, EC was a whole new ballgame. http://www.pprune.org/forums/images/icons//icon8.gif

SA 365 N Question ?
 

Has anyone experienced large deviation when ALT mode is engaged on the Autopilot ?

The helicopter deviates down 200 - 300 feet down and then 200-300 feet up like a true Dauphin :) Not very nice after a long ride !

We are operating with a hoist on the AC and we where told that the hoist might have this effect on the Aircraft !

Has anyone got this same experience or similar.

Regards

Helikopter

AS365 Autopilot
 

Feel free to cantact me for any further explanation to this specific Dauphin problem. Mobile = 0032486436784.

Regards,
bertrand

yes, it's expensive flying maasvlakte. But if i'm not mistaking, you've had that problem in september 98 as well. As far as i know it has nothing to do with the hoist. When you engage alt, does it first fly straight and level? And only after a disturbance it will start fluctuating, wich will get worse and worse?

Dauphin N
 

Yes the problem was in 98 as well.

And yes the AC does fly straight and level just after you engage ALT, but the disturbance is so little that it is never possible to fly with the ALT engaged because the ride gets worse and worse.

Thanks a lot guys for your replys

Regards

365 Autopilot
 

This has nothing to do with the hoist.

It's purely an autopilot problem.
You need a good avionic enginer

I don't think you need an avionics engineer.
First do a full autopilot test, if it reed "0" switch the test to off, watch the PRY indicators in the centre panel; P: Half Down, R: Half right.
Ok so far so good, now check(What most people forget) without disengaging the AP. the TRIM. China hat forward(+/-2 sec), watch the pitch indicator, it should go up AND the cyclic should move forward AND keeps moving forward, because the AP has no reference, so the stick should continue to move smoothly forward. You have to use the trim release to stop or the beep trim in opposite direction. (I think it has to be checked before every flight as opposed to the ap test: first flight of the day) (Flight Manual 4.1 chapter 5.2.3 afterstart checks, special checks). If the P indicator moves, but the cyclic does not, the trim motor will continue to run untill the force is strong enough to move the cyclic, then it will jump forward ( or backward, sideways, depending th direction of the trim) If that is the case, then have a look at the bearings of the controle push-pullrods and bellcranks, most probably the are rough due to sand or dust and I think they will need replacement.
It would translate in ALT-hold: at time of engagement; no distorsion, so smooth flying. When there is a distorsion, the trim motor will start to run, but because the controle bearings are to rough, it will need a bigger force to move them. When they move, it will be to much so you will go the opposite direction of the distorsion, resulting in a trim action in the other direction, and so on .. so the Dauphin will make bigger and higher jumps as to where the trim is at its max travel speed and lenght.
But it definatly is not the hoist!!
Good luck, let us know when it's solved

Long time I havn't flown a "N":{ but, I remember we also can check the full needle deflection on each galvanometer when we select the test switch to "OFF" just before disengaging AP. With only half a deflection, we can expect a lazy and slow correction on affected axis. It also worth having a look on the coupled axis FD bar to check if AP correctly responds to required corrections.
Often the fault is originated by actuators amplifiers....but don't take it for granted, to me it's more like esothery and magic stuff.

I have some experience in the past with porpoising in flight on the 365, replace the a/P actuator under the right forward seat position, also a seized rod end bearing can also cause this problem

AS365 Arriel 2C OEI and maximum power?
 

Turbomeca quote the Arriel 2C OEI 30' rating as 963shp
and Maximum Continuous Power as 779shp (EC quote better figures in the AS365 Panther literature as 977shp/800shp) for the same engine.

As a newcomer here I am thoroughly confused.

Can someone explain if the the two engines in the AS365 Panther can be run simultaneously at the maximum 963/977shp OEI 30 seconds rating, if so what would be the maximum time the two engines could run in this condition and any oter limitations / dangers.

Alternatively, is there some techncal restriction such as transmission capacity which would limit this.

I ask because EC appear to be claiming that the AS365 has a maximum power in excess of 1800shp which is the two OEI 30' ratings added together, can this be right?

EC AS365N3 Technical Link
Turbomeca Arriel 2C Link

Yes, the N3 has a max gearbox rating of 1,294 shp take-off, 1,138 shp max continuous and 815 shp OEI. As with all modern-day twins, the transmission is not intended to soak-up the theoretical max combined ISA/SL rating of the donks, but rather to ensure a suitably high OEI performance (see the AW139 thread for more discussion on this).

Although the installed power of modern twins may seem unusable at ISA/SL, they do offer much improved hot/high performance, with the reduced output of powerplants at 4K/95 or 6K/95 filling the gearbox (or at least coming close to doing so).

I/C

MCC Dauphin
 

Anyone know where to do a MCC on a Dolphin?

Cheers

Mcc Courses
 

Contact luftransport in Norway I think the run such courses

Lufttransport TRTO webpage says they do TRT on SA365N Dauphin, but nothing on MCC. They do state that they offer training in CRM. Contact them, they may well be able to point you in the right direction

MD :ok:

Why you need MCC with Dauphin? The MCC is MCC. You can have it anywhere, where is approved MCC training program. Try also Airlift.no or Proflight.se.

Hostile:ok:

thanks guys.

its just more interesting to do it in the heli we operate, thats why I'm looking for MCC AS365.

HM

MCC Courses
 

MCC courses in Europe fall into two categories. The amendment 5 to JAR FCL2 means that there are now two courses - MCC IFR, and MCC VFR.
In UK only one MCC IFR. Try Don MacDonald at Tiger Helicopters he has got a super new simulator based upon the A109.:}

Try Helisim @ Marignane, they have one FFS with a 365 N2 Dauphin cabin.

ATN @

SA365 Door removal
 

I can´t seem to find any reference in AFM on limitations etc if standard door´s are removed on SA365.

Anyone know anything about door removal on Dauphin :confused:

The aircraft does not have sliding doors and I may need to remove doors for filming.

110 knots, don't have the AFM reference to hand.

Doors off,
 

You can found references from AS365 FM SUP 15 (Transport of external loads).
VNE is 110kt.

Hostile:ok:

Excellent :ok: Thank´s. Now I can sleep tonight :)

AS365 or competitors
 

Looking for info on the various models of AS365s.

Any advice or tips on what to look out for would be appreciated. Performance, Maintenance issues, Passenger comfort, Range with full seats and Offshore gear, Support, Operating costs etc. Anyone ever have a cargo hook on one?

Would be operating mostly Sea level, 30+ C. Any kits out for NVG?

Thanks,

HH

Dauphin variants
 

Spent many happy years zipping round in Ns and N2s on the North Sea, N2 certainly more capable than the N, think of them as analogue(N)and digital (N2) versions.

No problems with underslung loads, and can be fitted with a good range of survival aids for over water operations, and as pointed out there is a neat fit for a pair of life rafts in the cabin roof.

Delight to fly, but can be a bit fragile in places, doors cabin and boot tend to be a bit on the flimsy side. Boot size is quite good without being capacious.

The pilot seats were designed around the standard 4ft three hunchback gnome - with a withered limb, worth investing in good quality seats there.

I cant vouch for its performance in more pleasant climes, but agree with the the previous poster, N probably a bit sporty, N2 will probably do it most days.

Single engine performance whilst not stellar, is adequate and will get you home. Autopilot out is not too much of a handful - for the ex mil guys, its like a gazelle on steroids.

IFR is a good machine (flew it SPIFR), bit sensitive in pitch, but keep on top of that and its OK.

Dauphin used widely around the world which is always a good sign - variety of engine fits, used arriels, never had one fail on me.

Tough little aircraft, worked hard offshore for years, and stayed out in all weathers.

Flying a desk these days, and dauphin was the last type I flew. No bad days with it, and dont recall any real vices with the aircraft.

Bit of a subjective answer, but HIH:ok:

BT

Hi...
I'm flying AS365N3 at the moment, and I used to fly N2 and N.
During more than 3000 FH on it, I have had a very few engine's problems ( mainly due to chip detection device, fixed now on the new N2 and N3).
I was flying offshore, ship pilot transfer, military and SAR, and the main problem was the engine power in the hover, on the N and when temperature was up to 25C..
I'm now flying a N3, for SAR purpose in a country where the normal temperature is ISO+20 (OAT is there 30-35C), and we still take off at 4300kg, hover at sea at 4100 (at the MCP).
For underslung operations, you can go to 1600kg on the N3...
Empty weight is approximatly 2800 kg, depending on the options installed on board..
A really good chopper to fly, easy to and very safe...
But just my point of view....:ok:

We had no real troubles with the doors as such, the boot hinges would die on a regular basis but when I left Eurcopter where trying to do something about it.

Maintenance wise the N2 and N3 are very reliable as far as I can tell. No problems that couldn't be solved up until now.
We had a few cracks at the 25° frame, but probably caused by the pilots hanging into the strap that is attached at that point to get into the aircraft, as the pilot doors are not very big.
The engines on the N3 are easy to maintain and if for any reason you have to do an engine replacement, it can be done very fast due to the great acessability. The N2 demands a little more attention because of the anticipator, but it isn't to bad eighter.
We use them for a wide variety of jobs, from offshore to hoisting to HEMS and VIP.
I know Lufttransport in Norway has NVG kits on their machines, but I think it would be better to get your information at your local Eurocopter Service Center.
Roof dinghy's are an option, but I have heared they have life rafts that can be mounted on the outside of the aircraft that serve as step. In that way you save some space on the inside.
All I can say is that the Dauphin has proven itself trough the years.
Greetz

Thanks for the info so far, please keep it coming.

I have heard that the Ariell 2 series (in both 365N3s and 76s), had trouble making powerchecks in warmer temps after 600hrs or so. Is there any validity to this?

What is available for barrier filters on the 365?

Thanks,

HH

Dauphin Helicopters
 

Hi all, this is my first post on Rotorheads, i have recently uploaded a website dedicated to Dauphin helicopters, linked below. If any of you out there can update my site or would like to add a picture (aim is one of every registration!!) that would be most welcome.

http://www.dauphin2.com

many thanks Dave.

excellent site. v useful
s/n 6309

Hi David,

Check your email, I just send yo a huge file file with Dauphin pictures

Good luck,

Mark