The human immune system can overreact causing detriment to the body it is supposed to protect.

My eldest son was less than a year old when his immune system reacted to one of the many early infections kids get - we thought he had meningitis as he had a rash that looked just like it and seemed to fade when pressed. The hospital took bloods and discovered his white cell count was in almost single figures and said it was symptomatic of an immune system reaction - there was no treatment they could give and it was up to his immune system to sort itself out. Fortunately in a couple of days his white cell count was back to normal and he has been a very healthy boy ever since (now late 20s).

Just reiterating we are not all identical and our reactions to things vary widely - simple things like pollen for example.

Why is a thread about aviation medical certification being discussed on Rotorheads then, with a variety of 'experts' weighing in with their expert opinions on virology, serology and cardiology?

It makes sense this thread is moved to https://www.pprune.org/medical-health-62/ so the internet derived hysteria can be readily dismissed for what it is.

I did not stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night so I cannot claim to be an FAA Medical Examiner.....but a few minutes roaming around in the FAA Medical Examiners Guide at the FAA website surfaced information that seems to challenge the PR range data cited in that linked article.

I started to post that link yesterday morning but after looking at the Medical Guide I was not able to confirm what it had to say about the FAA's changing of the standard for PR Values to the range quoted in the article.

Recent CDC Press Releases have made reference to the possibility of there being some more serious side effects for the Covid Vaccines but did not report any changes to the existing guidance re their use or safety.

I am sure this is an issue/topic/concern that we shall hear more about as time goes on and additional research data and studies are reported.

I shall be engaged in some group activity this weekend that shall be attended by some medical professionals who will be able to provide some sage counsel about this and will post what they have to say on Sunday. upon my return to the Goose Bay Tea House.

Reading the linked article suggests it is a long on assumptions and promises but a tad short on corroborative data that proves its claims.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....458fa0e687.jpg
Example of the change in the "Item 58. ECG Normal Variants List" can be found in this post of mine: https://www.pprune.org/medical-healt...l#post11369598

Exactly!!!! First a trickle, then a flood & soon a tsunami

https://stevekirsch.substack.com/p/e...t-the-faa-in-a
This is not from controlled MSM source so let's see if the commies take it down?

Not sure why this is on Rotorheads as it effects all pilots. Pity it wasnt moved to the medical thread. I have only just spotted it and I am not going to trawl through the entire thread. May I make some objective purely medical observations:

1 The FAA asked for a vaccine and the goal was to reduce hospitalisation and death by over 50%. The current western vaccines achieve far better than this and have saved many lives. Vaccination was never developed to reduce the risk of becoming infected and some studies suggest over 95% of some developed populations have been infected despite high vacination rates. However they didnt die.

2 Vaccination may reduce load shedding and the risk of infecting others but now the risk of death from covid is less than the risk of death from influenza. Risk is to those immunoisuppressed and this excludes pilots

3 Chinese vaccines are far far less effective. China reduced offers to make mRNA vaccines under license until a few weeks ago.

4 The mRNA vaccines are very safe and most complications on social media are false. However myocarditis is seen especially in young males up to age 29 where it rises to 1 in 10,000 after repeated doses. It almost always resolves spontaneously. Sadly this problem is relevant to younger pilots and they will temporarily lose their license. Testing to confirm normal cardiac function will cost money.

Logically it follows that although we are encouraging all adults to be vaccinated and revaccinated (children are a different matter) the risk;benefit ratio in 2023 may be against vaccination in pilots.

Radgirl,

You should read the whole thread. We all know what the official stance is. There are two of us who lost our medical certificate through myocarditis after COVID vaccinations and both of us are a lot older than the age of 29!

Due to the frequency of ECG's for a Class 1 under 30, some damage may not be picked up for a few years

One "covid related" story from EASA land...
The ATPL student pilots are assumed to be students in most of the EASA area and Part FCL, except in 9A
In 9A they was only "candidates".
On the state level regulation was that the students are excluded from tough regime of each second day testing or vaccination. All to be allowed to enter in state public services (university for example).
The CCAA.hr changed that rule during the one of 10 days examination periods. Which resulted that student pilot who like to participate on exams, waited with other crowd to be tested/infected or to take vaccine and possible future risk of lost medical, sometime after.
The all exam periods after, are performed with the same Covid drill.
Today, my Junior is still healthy pilot (under 29 y/o) with his own small GA plane , only without ATPL theory ;)
and firm stand that he is going to work only like freelancer either A or H.

PS just to note that EASA have one nice ongoing research project:
https://www.easa.europa.eu/en/resear...-diseases-cavd

Radgirl,

Not sure why this is on Rotorheads as it effects all pilots.

The simple answer is we here in Rotorheads are a very separate and distinctly different segment of the Aviaton Industry wit large.

As we are a much smaller segment and in many cases due to the transient nature of the business and working environment quite a lot us know personally, or know of, so many others.

That and we all hail from a great many different Countries around this targe green and blue Orb we dwell upon.

Bluntly put....it is here because it allows helicopter pilots to discuss something that directly affects helicopter pilots.

What. you think about Covid and what relates to Helicopter Pilots is welcome.....but as to the presence of this discussion here and not elsewhere your opinion matters not.

Somewhere for helicopter pilots to discuss Covid without those discussions being clouded by someone who actually knows what they are talking about. Somewhere where they can pull 'facts' from pseudo-science website rather than listen to someone who knows how to systematically and critically review research papers on the subject.

Radgirl is an experienced clinician, you should listen to her rather than shouting in your echo chamber.

Shytorque

No I didnt read the entire thread and explained why. I hoped to give some medical insight and what I wrote certainly is not official stance. As far as I know no aviation regulator has suggested pilots should consider not being vaccinated. I am very sorry to you and others who have suffered myocarditis: although as I wrote it is 'especially' seen up to 29, that does not mean older pilots will not be at risk. I hoped my comments demonstrated some empathy and reassurance.

SASless

Delighted to be educated about rotary pilots. Sadly a number of fixed wing pilots have also suffered from myocarditis.

Anyway, opinion given and no offense taken whatever you do with it.

Crab and Foster........did you two decide to ignore the first half of the sentence you think offensive?

That being....I have no doubt there are Fixed Wing Pilots who have had problems.....but this is a thread in Rotor Heads....a Forum for Helicopter Pilots and others in the that segment of the aviation industry throughout the World.

She is welcome to contribute....and it does not have to be limited to medical experiences of only helicopter pilots.

But the Thread is here at Rotor Heads.

We discuss our helicopter accidents here....and not at another Forum....so why should Covid effects on helicopter pilots be any different.

We discuss Military Helicopters here as well.....not just civilian helicopters.

That is the way it has been since I first joined Rotor Heads quite a while ago.

​​​​​​​

1. Of course, we have no control group, as the mandates effectively wiped out a comm pilot(fixed or rotor) that is NOT jabbed(BTW, for all concerned, the covid jab is not and never has been a "vaccine" according to the widely held understanding of that word in the medical lexicon). Also, the jab was absolutely developed and sold as the way to reduce the risk of becoming infected. One can search videos by Rachel Maddow, Joe Biden, Fauci, etc touting that those who are jabbed will not get or transmit the covid virus, all of which was complete fabrication.

2. Vaccination(the jabs) may have provided some reduction in severity, or possibly even mortality. I consider a larger view of the ledger, taking into account the damage done BY the jabs just as important as those elusive reductions in severity or mortality. If we would factor in the increased mortality due to the jabs causing a long list of side effects, and the cost in man-years, I think on balance in a few years we will find that ledger entry to be solidly on the side of 'first, do no harm' in this case by producing and distributing a questionable mRNA spike protein which runs rampant through many body functions, and strangely - has and had NO effect on the mucosal receptor location of the first attack vector of covid virus.

3. I have no idea what's going on in China. No one in western civ should claim otherwise.

4. I take particular umbridge at this 'safe and effective' canard. The bloom is most definitely off that particular rose. As mentioned, the first social media and main stream media touts from on high were all '95% effective!'. Then, reality set in, and that was reduced to 90, then 75, then 45, and finally, as the booster program rolled out, we learned the actual effective rate was hovering around 32% after 18 weeks second dose. As for 'safe', as the entries in the US VAERS reporting system skyrocketed, people began dropping dead of various side effects. Of course, the Official Line from the big pharma, big media, big govt continued to both ignore, and silence any probative remonstration of the growing tally of destruction left behind the by those jabbed.

Add to that, the unconscionable rejection of alternative therapies from attacks on 'horse paste' and HCQ, Zinc, and hypo-chlorinated lavage(directly at the mucosal membranes) and other potential therapies, there is the ugly fingerprints of the commercial interests behind much of that fuss. Mostly supported by the trio of pharma, media and govt again. The results from India with Ivermectin are nothing short of remarkable, yet anyone referencing it, or speaking about it with an actual control group in neighboring states of India are regularly and effectively silenced.

So, in summary all my position points are just opinion, and it's always up to the individual to make their own judgments after careful investigation. But - riddle me this. Who has most to gain, by tilting that particular windmill with the media, and govt, and pharma? How does the individual make those careful investigations when opposition viewpoints, raw data, and evaluations are suppressed, and those who voice them are ridiculed, and in many cases stripped of their power, and position? What does the jab cognoscenti have to fear from rational evaluation and the scientific method of theorize, postulate, evaluate, promulgate? It seems most of those interested in jab, and only jab went directly from theorize to promulgate, and have decided that the postulate and evaluate steps are merely sideshow Bob distractions? These are of course, rhetorical questions. I hope everyone will do their diligence, and find those alternative tests, evaluations, raw data, results, and choose wisely. As noted - I strongly suspect that the covid jab ledger will be on balance a serious and deadly mistake in lost man-years over the coming decade.

Edit; some fun reading to slog through - https://link.springer.com/content/pd...22-09479-4.pdf

Ethical conundrum - So if you were in charge of a country, faced with a rapidly spreading global pandemic that has already been shown to kill or seriously affect very large numbers of people, what would you have done? Watch the death toll rise and say - 'do no harm'?

The clock was ticking and all leaders, medical professionals and regulators were under huge pressure to do something.

It might not have been the perfect solution but it did save lives, it did prevent serious illness and it did allow lifting of restrictions (and therefore recovery of economies) far sooner than if everyone had just done nothing.

Those that seek to blame the 'big 3' seem to ignore the reality of what was happening at the time and how quickly the virus was spreading.

The prophylactic injections (since you don't like the term vaccination) didn't stop me getting Covid but instead of spending weeks in hospital (as many of similarly aged countrymen did) or dying, I had a mild flu-like episode for 3 days. It's been the same with everyone I know.

For those that have had side effects, I am sorry but side effects go with any drug and are always a risk. Are you saying you wouldn't take any medicine that hasn't had a 100% clean bill of health record with zero side effects?

>The clock was ticking and all leaders, medical professionals and regulators were under huge pressure to do something.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Politician%27s_syllogism

crab..[QUOTE] It might not have been the perfect solution but it did save lives, it did prevent serious illness and it did allow lifting of restrictions (and therefore recovery of economies) far sooner than if everyone had just done nothing.

This one I have a hard time with. It's funny that so many people say I didn't have it too bad because of the jab? How would one know how bad they were going to be as it effects mostly the elderly, and those with weakened immune systems or ill health. Most, 99.7% I think were the figures, would not die from this or be seriously ill. How we can state that we weren't to ill with covid because of the jab will never be known, as we all rushed out and got it straight away?
Yes it prevented serious illness in those elderly, ill, etc but for most of us it wasn't necessary, especially the younger ones amongst us. Big Pharma is probably the most fined, corrupt organisations on the planet. Yet despite the billions in fines over the years for corruption, lying, coercing results for drugs etc etc, we still believe they produce drugs/vaccines for our benefit? :ugh: If I offered you a drink that will stop you getting flu forever, but when asked what the ingredients were, I said you can trust me, it's safe, and by the way I've asked for the data of trials of this drink to be sealed for 75 years.......would you trust me?? I suspect the answer is no, so why do we trust big pharma? :confused:
(thank godness for the american court judge that forced them to release the drug trial data by the end of 2022):ok:


B.

There's one state, and a few remote nations that did far less intrusive means to react to the covid virus. Gov Noem in ND chose more of a 'wait and see'. Had no lockdowns, very short mask mandate(quickly revoked), and went on record as getting any jab is a personal decision between the individual and their doctor(s). If we look at both covid mortality, and side effect mortality that can be linked to the virus and it's principle mRNA vax(that is not a vax) results, it appears that by population, ND is about in the middle of the pack for deaths from covid, and lower than the middle of the pack in deaths from side effects.

From this, I take the same approach as Gov Noem. First - do no harm. No school closures(child and teen mortality are tiny fractions from covid) were very short, on the ave of about 2 weeks to 'flatten the curve', which was another huge lie from the big three. Long term, I believe that state, and those nations that took a more reserved approach to the viral event will have better outcomes with a lower loss of man-years overall.

I followed my own advice and used the 'wait and see' approach, knowing that I risked getting covid, and knowing that my alternative therapies were violently objectionable to the main stream medical establishment. In July 2022 I did get covid, and I did use those prophylactic therapies(horse paste, HCQ, hypo-chlorinated vapor and lavage) and I did recover with no complications. I also avoided the potential for the laundry list of side effects from the jab. Any search online for the side effects reads like a 'don't worry, be happy' message of hope and change. While the reality is the VAERS reports of covid jab side effects is quite chilling. In Sept 2021 there were so many entries in the DB it actually broke the servers that were managing the VAERS application.

As for your conjecture on 'are you saying' it would be best not to presume or attempt to put words in my mouth that I did not state. As a veteran, and one who has travelled extensively to primitive places I've had many, many injections for known pathogens that were in fact +98% effective, and also had extremely low probability of side effects. MMR, and diptheria, pertussus, hep-a, hep-b, polio and so on. All of these were developed, tested, evaluated, modified(in some cases), tested again, and finally approved and promulgated. Those vaccines really do save lives and save man-years. What does it say about Pfizer that has a fully approved FDA regulated 'vaccine' for covid that they will not allow to be used by the gen public? Why would they choose to use the one which has zero liability from any patient damage or death when a perfectly good 'vaccine' is available? What does that tell the average Joe about Pfizer's goal and ultimate duty to the health of Americans?

So, what I am saying, is what I said before. Each person, go the extra mile, find the real info from both sides, even though the jab and only jab side is doing it's level best to hide, discriminate, lie, cheat and de-platform anyone with an alternative opinion of treating covid. Then, once all the info is presented, make the choice. Get the jab that does not stop the infection from invading the mucosal structures, and only treats the secondary and tertiary infection sites, and also does not stop transmission, or wait and see, and be prepared with alternative options.

Again, one man's opinion and these are of course rhetorical questions, so the answer is for the class to determine from their homework assignment.

[QUOTE=Brutal;11373591]crab..Brutal, I'm not defending big pharma, they have a lot to answer for generally, but look at the figures here https://www.ons.gov.uk/aboutus/trans...vid19byageband and look how steeply the numbers rise after the age of 50 - I was just coming to 60 when the pandemic started - I maintain the jabs stopped me becoming a statistic.

I can't prove I would have had mild covid without the jabs, it is stupid to pretend otherwise, so why theorise about something you can't prove either way? And I don't have long covid either. If it was the jabs then great, if it wasn't then I was just lucky. I'm not going off on a conspiracy tangent just because I don't like big pharma or our govt.

Even if all the jabs did was to limit the effect on a horribly overstretched NHS, it was worth it.