Christchurch wedding day helicopter crash
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There is something about helicopters and weddings which just doesn't mix.
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what would lead to such a high vertical energy crash? (two broken back)
blades still intact and tail broke off by itself, that's a change ... no fire is always a good thing |
Perhaps an engine failure from a high hover or vertical climb?
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It was a photo job. It seems there were 4 POB. One could speculate. Low height. Low speed. Reasonably heavy. Turn out of the wind. An oopsie moment. Before you know it high sink rate, loss of directional control, splatter. Often the way with photo job accidents. Or maybe the engine suddenly stopped at a really bad place on the H/V diagram, the end result is the same.
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It was a photo job 4 up=pilot, photographer and the happy couple. |
Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 11061595)
There is something about helicopters and weddings which just doesn't mix.
Shame that....it should be such a happy day instead of a tragedy. |
Oh dear, not another one ending in disaster. Two things I very much try to avoid getting involved with when flying helicopters. Photographers and weddings. Both things together end up like this far too often.
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Originally Posted by SASless
(Post 11061999)
Shame that....it should be such a happy day instead of a tragedy.
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AIDS strikes....Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome.....as you well know like so many of us!
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Originally Posted by SASless
(Post 11062167)
AIDS strikes....Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome.....as you well know like so many of us!
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Starting your nuptials in a Robbie is a good idea. Nothing says I am a tight arse with little taste in a more obvious way, the bar for the future is set low. It makes it so much easier to over achieve :E
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Originally Posted by SASless
(Post 11062167)
AIDS strikes....Aviation Induced Divorce Syndrome.....as you well know like so many of us!
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Originally Posted by Bell_ringer
(Post 11062226)
Starting your nuptials in a Robbie is a good idea. Nothing says I am a tight arse with little taste in a more obvious way, the bar for the future is set low. It makes it so much easier to over achieve :E
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Originally Posted by Agile
(Post 11062264)
..actually the problem with helicopter and wedding is often with the substandard pilot friend of the family.
The number of accidents in this region from weddings and arrivals at, what the yanks would call "prom", is concerning. Almost always it is a PPL friend, or friend of a friend, sometimes even a wet behind the ears comm pilot grabbing another hour. This is what you get when you want to make an arrival at low-to-no cost. Wish granted. |
Kind of a skewed demographic. Give the price point for helicopter-born wedding arrivals, piston vs. turbine, of course we are going to see Robinsons being ubiquitous in this role. And thus we see almost exclusively Robinson crashes associated with this sort of operation. Just like we see almost exclusively MD500 crashes when stringing power lines and other utility work. It's a rare day when you can blame the machine in either case. Emotionally harder for the public to consume when it involves members of the bridal party, though.
I myself am smack in the middle of this territory. Low time commercial pilot already asked by friends to do a wedding day delivery. The venue did not support a safe arrival and thus I passed on the event. I told them if they could come up with another, workable idea, I'd reconsider. However I don't think the Part 91 LOA I operate under will cover it, so it would have to be a "favor". |
If they ever come out with that Cabri with a back seat (and people can actually afford it) I have no doubt it will give the 44 a run for its money in the "suddenly dropped out of the sky" stats.
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Agreed. The pilot demographic will be nearly the same as for the R44, and those pilots will make the same mistakes they always do.
Interestingly, if a putative "G4" were to cost half again what an R44 costs, it might be a tough decision between that and a used R66, depending upon how many hours were being flown a year, etc. |
How many marriages start off with buckets of money?
I was lucky to be able to afford the petrol to run off to South Carolina and get married by a Justice of the Peace. |
On a tragic note here in Oz some time back a bride was killed on the way to her wedding when the B47 being flown by, I think, her brother hit wires.
Unbelievably sad. |
Confirm her brother e86, 817.
How it can happen, starts at 00:47 |
A passenger aboard the NZ wedding crash reported a sudden and total loss of engine power. Not sure what phase of the flight but still over the property.
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Originally Posted by eagle 86
(Post 11062567)
On a tragic note here in Oz some time back a bride was killed on the way to her wedding when the B47 being flown by, I think, her brother hit wires.
Unbelievably sad. |
Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 11061640)
It was a photo job. It seems there were 4 POB. One could speculate. Low height. Low speed. Reasonably heavy. Turn out of the wind. An oopsie moment. Before you know it high sink rate, loss of directional control, splatter. Often the way with photo job accidents. Or maybe the engine suddenly stopped at a really bad place on the H/V diagram, the end result is the same.
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@Rottenjohn, Gullibell wrote "one could speculate".
Speculate: -> form a theory or conjecture about a subject without firm evidence That's exactly what he did and have to agree, VR is a possible cause and you don't even have to be heavy for that....... |
Originally Posted by rottenjohn
(Post 11062922)
..You claim reasonably “heavy”. Did someone tell you that? Along with all your theories, your speculation and trying to sound knowledgeable makes you look like a prize dick.
My speculation speculates one of four possibilities, in order of likelihood. 1. An oopsie moment during a photo shoot at low level (don't always believe initial passenger reports about anything); 2. A sudden engine failure at a bad spot in the H/V profile. 3. A sudden engine failure outside the H/V which the pilot messed up the auto-rotation and splattered it. 4. Something else. |
I haven’t been able to fly actively for a while, so haven’t cracked open my R22 RFM recently, but I do recall a safety notice issued by Robinson regarding the risk of photo flights, a mission that might be considered by too many as simple to carry off.
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Confirm her brother e86, 817. |
Originally Posted by rotorfan
(Post 11063045)
I haven’t been able to fly actively for a while, so haven’t cracked open my R22 RFM recently, but I do recall a safety notice issued by Robinson regarding the risk of photo flights, a mission that might be considered by too many as simple to carry off.
,...but if there's one thing Robby's do, its separate those who study from those who just cram the night before the test. |
Originally Posted by Robbiee
(Post 11063081)
,...but if there's one thing Robby's do, its separate those who study from those who just cram the night before the test. |
VR is a possible cause and you don't even have to be heavy for that....... |
Originally Posted by SASless
(Post 11063113)
Just once....I want to read an Accident Thread at Rotorheads where "VR" is not instantly thrust forward as a possible cause.....just once.
The area is low density altitude, as cold and low as you could hope for. Even a 4-up Robbie is not short of grunt on a short trip. |
Originally Posted by SASless
(Post 11063113)
Just once....I want to read an Accident Thread at Rotorheads where "VR" is not instantly thrust forward as a possible cause.....just once.
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Agreed, and even more so that national AIBs are so quick to propose it in reports involving larger modern generation aircraft |
Originally Posted by rotorfan
(Post 11063045)
I haven’t been able to fly actively for a while, so haven’t cracked open my R22 RFM recently, but I do recall a safety notice issued by Robinson regarding the risk of photo flights, a mission that might be considered by too many as simple to carry off.
1. An oopsie moment during a photo shoot at low level What's so dangerous about that? |
Originally Posted by Nige321
(Post 11063458)
..What's so dangerous about that?
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CM - I got your PM but your inbox is full I think
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Originally Posted by rottenjohn
(Post 11062922)
Why on earth would you even post that? Armchair expert probably with no knowledge of what happened. Be interesting to know if you have actually any idea of the circumstances. You claim reasonably “heavy”. Did someone tell you that? Along with all your theories, your speculation and trying to sound knowledgeable makes you look like a prize dick.
That the aircraft ended up in the state it did due to mismanagement is quite a reasonable thing to speculate. Plenty of R44 accidents follow a wearisome pattern of running out of power or overpitching whilst doing something - like a wedding job or a photo job - which involved lots of traps for the unwary. And it is very easy to run out of power 4 up in an R44 if you start making steep approaches/downwind approaches/low airspeed approaches. Plenty of the time folk fly them 2 up and have oodles of power in reserve. Then they add a pax or two and a few items in the seats and more than half a tank of fuel and.. hey presto: accident waiting to happen. I’d bet the farm on user error. |
Originally Posted by megan
(Post 11062755)
Confirm her brother e86, 817.
How it can happen, starts at 00:47 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BhtNm1IGwQc |
Originally Posted by Winemaker
(Post 11063907)
... is there any escape maneuver that can be flown to recover to visual flight? ...
But the escape maneuver from my standpoint is "land", back of Walmart parking lot if you need or anywhere flat. will get you in trouble a little bit, but everything will be forgiven when come to understand that you are still alive. |
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