AW169 Rollover
 

https://www.giornaletrentino.it/cron...QaT7ZNgJYuxSOE

Released the nose wheel lock with plenty of pedal applied?


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....857cdb7f3.jpeg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....3b7e420b6.jpeg
https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e6bc6482c.jpeg
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https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....a73774703.jpeg

The AAIU has already determined it was not the crew’s fault. The pilot was licensed and qualified by the authority and followed the published SOP to the letter, nobody to blame.

But even less seriously...looks like he wanted to taxi to the left, aircraft resisted so he tried a little harder, then remembered the nosewheel lock and when it released the aircraft spun left with full left pedal applied. This threw the pilot to the right still hanging on to the cyclic and collective. So on top of the yaw the pilot has now got the collective coming up and full right cyclic. The aircraft is truly embarrassed at the overreaction by the pilot to the initial slow left turn and rolls over in shame.

fodder for weeks to come on pprune

What surprises me is pilots are still finding new ways to needlessly prang helicopters.

and new ways to kill the ground crew.

they should have just put a damper in and had done with it

The guy legging it towards the corner of the hangar caught on pretty quick. Best decision-maker portrayed here!

Yep, watch his body language as the 169 inches forward - he knows bad things gonna happen.
Puma guys can sympathize.

But this looks like an old way!

However, I do wonder if this has any similarity to the tragic accident at Leicester football ground....it looked like yaw control was completely lost.

Looks more like a load of pedal then a sudden release of nosewheel lock.

I wonder of the paws were a hindrance when it started to go?

Video of rollover
 

https://bithome.ch/wp-content/upload...169Bolzano.mp4

Yes, that’s obviously how it started but why no opposite pedal once it began yawing?

The main gearbox breaking up doesn't fill me with much confidence. I've seen a couple of roll overs, have been in one, but the gearboxes have kept their integrity.

The MGB looks intact as the shaft and beanie are still in place. The MR Head has come apart, little surprise. Fuselage retains shape and doors remain in place. Cabin door still slides open.

Sure looks like that, you can see when the nosewheel lock being released that the nosewheel swings 90degrees immediately indicating alot of left pedal...

I’m watching on my phone, but don’t see the MGB breaking up?

Can't see MRGB break-up either.

Difficult to see why he didn't take any corrective action.

Simple answer

I think you'll find that entire post is sarcasm... :ugh:

It looks like a hardcover to the anti torque side (negative power pedal). Absolutely no response on the pedals. OR full left pedal tryin to defeat the nose wheel lock that either fails or is removed. Just can’t see why the opposite pedal is not put in. The puma goes instantly when the nose wheel over centres so cabs will spin easily once the nose wheels are in the 90 degree position. Just can’t get why opposite pedal seems absent.

Is it yawing because of MR torque or because of TR torque?

it seems because he put far too much pedal input - he could have lifted to the hover and not crashed the aircraft

The blades on the 169 rotate anti-clockwise as seen from above. The tail rotor is on the right of the tail, so it’s a “puller”, rather than a pusher.

It remains to be published whether or not the pilot actually retained control of tail rotor pitch.

If the control linkage failed, as in the Leicester AW169 accident, he may have initiated a yaw only for t/r pitch to run away to full travel. In this case it looks like an uncontrolled amount of positive (power) pedal pitch was involved, rather than the negative pitch that caused the Leicester aircraft to go out of control.

[It used to be part of the RAF Puma conversion course how to learn how “drive” the aircraft forwards out of the situation where the nose wheel had accidentally become fully cocked off to the side. The first part of that recovery was to centralise the yaw pedals to avoid the aircraft rotating uncontrollably, and use the independent main wheel brakes to help stabilise and steer, rather than big bootfulls of pedal. It was important to get this right, due to the high mounted tail rotor the Puma will roll very rapidly and markedly if too much pedal is used on the ground].

It appears that as the aircraft moves forwards pedal is applied to turn left, so much so that the aircraft actually leans over to the right. The pilot stops forward motion (at 26 seconds), releases the pin and its all over.

So is this just a case of Italian authorities trying to sweep pilot error under the rug? Or did I misunderstand you? Certainly seems like a few pilot errors from my perspective, but I'm not so experienced with AWs. I've heard some stories about the company culture and Italian authorities before though...

As said above - That comment about the Italian authorities was just sarcasm - A joke!!

Fair play to the second ground crew - The one furthest from the camera - He was actually running towards the fire extinguisher and still ducking for cover while the aircraft was rolling and showering the ramp in debris. I don't know whether to put him forward for a medal or clip him round the ear!!

Hi,
there is a video online on Facebook, where the scenario is replayed in a simulator.
The sim crashes even faster
-R&c[0]=AT2Ip82GROK-OC0FGukaE3KkBck4XtOJ8CVtD75qWZu6FYDWQ4MAKaxkXpxaaZfAPhF5st4a ytG6KQocI7vB23lT0jK1IRlopThWYJCgn7DGmNJ7Ca2W0IG9otSZ68THO5Q0 vpvowzoSGdkwJee0b2Uw-Ba0uyIwd9RxR-GVRrcj3lqa6UMKielU8Lg]Facebook-Link to video

it looks like they were trying to taxi and turn left (ie left pedal in) and the nosewheel lock was engaged, when the noseweel lock was taken out, the wheel "flicks" to the left quickly (you can see this in video if you look closely), as a lot of left pedal was already applied the aircraft started to rotate left quite rapidly.

like with any pedal/rotation scenario, once an aircraft has completed one or two 360s the pilot will be so disorientated/surprised/frozen in terror... in most cases it's "game over"

Here's a link to the Facebook video referenced earlier (same scenario replicated in a simulator)

https://imgur.com/a/1DA60zZ

I copied and re-uploaded the video as it was difficult to locate in its original form on Facebook.

And what does the flashing light on the CWP signify the moment things start to go pear shaped?

That's the nosewheel going through the process of unlocking.

Incomplete analysis
 

I believe the explanation is incomplete because the pilots would have obviously apply correction rudder right to stop the uncommanded left rotation that let me think that is a hydraulic jam here in place.

[QU=malabo;11017649]The AAIU has already determined it was not the crew’s fault. The pilot was licensed and qualified by the authority and followed the published SOP to the letter, nobody to blame.

But even less seriously...looks like he wanted to taxi to the left, aircraft resisted so he tried a little harder, then remembered the nosewheel lock and when it released the aircraft spun left with full left pedal applied. This threw the pilot to the right still hanging on to the cyclic and collective. So on top of the yaw the pilot has now got the collective coming up and full right cyclic. The aircraft is truly embarrassed at the overreaction by the pilot to the initial slow left turn and rolls over in shame.

fodder for weeks to come on pprune[/QUOTE]

Can only say 'Oh wow!'.
An aircraft in perfect shape, destroyed in seconds because of the nose wheel not being unlocked in time?
If this is representative of the sensitivity of helicopter flying, it explains a lot.
The question that remains is why do very wealthy people accept such low safety standards.

unlikely, the fast left yaw would have taken them by surprise and they would have quickly got disorientated

I missed what this has to do with wealthy people?

In this specific case I thnk those guys are supposed to go after the wealthy people (Italian fiscal police )

OK, so if we accept that this may well be the cause. Certainly taking out the nose wheel lock with full left pedal, can go very wrong very quickly.

What is the learning? Pilot training? Lift into the hover like ground resonance - Last thing you want to do when you feel like you might have lost tail rotor control, is to get in the air! Perhaps with the violent rotation, your feet might get swept of the pedals?

If this has happened twice by the sound of it, would a software interlock be worthwhile? One that doesn't allow the nose wheel to be unlocked unless the pedals are set at no more than +/- 30% power for example?

This wasnt uncommanded, it was commanded, and as soon as they realised they had forgotten the nosewheel lock and unlocked it (the amber flashing lights in the sim) they got the yaw they commanded.

Only 1 aw169 that we know of. It happens on most types, especially puma as detailed earlier.

Pilots are trained, sop's are written, people dont follow them, the cause of many accidents.

Think recent accidents in Alaska, earlier in France, the Caribbean and before that a UK stadium, all billionaires, wiped out by their helicopters

But this wasnt a privately owned helicopter with a crew being paid by HNW individual. Wealth has nothing to do with it.