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If you’re going to be daft enough...
...to blatantly breach the Covid restrictions, it’s probably best not to be filmed doing it:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-englan...shire-56278463 |
Don’t believe everything that you read or see in the media........
It’s not always quite the way they portray it............. |
That must of been one hell of a beef sandwich.
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How about
Local businessman uses maintenance flight opportunity to help small local take away store promote their business during tough trading times....... |
It looks Ok to me. They wore a mask and delivered the sarnie through the window I mean honestly. What is the point of being rich and owning a helicopter if the common people are just going to complain when you pop out for lunch!
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.......just because you can, doesn't mean that you should...............
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Blighty has been thoroughly useless at enforcing covid regulations, relying on the honour-system and failing to notice some people don't give a monkey's,
It is unsurprising that the elite have worked out it is far easier to ask for forgiveness than permission. Brains seldom seems to come with cash and celebrity, so most don't bother with discretion and are then shocked when someone notices. If Mr Ramsey can waft around ignoring rules, why not land your helicopter. The fine is going to be less than the trip anyway. Money well spent. |
The problem with people who do this kind of thing is that to members of the general public it comes across that all members of the general aviation community are arrogant, wealthy, egocentric bellends. There are many within the GA world who fit this description perfectly some of whom I know however, the vast majority are normal people doing their thing while trying to adhere to the ANO, the Covid restrictions and rules in general. This kind of news story doesn't help when we are trying to restrict CAS or stop our airfields from becoming housing estates and trying to enlist the help of the public and local residents.
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This may well have been legitimate use of a necessary flight and perfectly legal
But we must always assume we are being filmed or photographed, because we so often are, and must be mindful of how our actions will be portrayed. (I appreciate that the pilot may not have been aware that the cafe were going to publicise his visit - I would guess that he was not) If this was a deliberate effort to publicise the cafe then both the pilot and the cafe were naive to the point of stupidity. The Great British Public are fed up to the back teeth of Covid restrictions and are ready to lash out spectacularly at any perceived injustice or violation (Especially on the part of "the privileged" or by noisy helicopters that they love to complain about at the best of times). To give them ammunition such as this is a spectacular own goal for the industry. OH |
Unfortunately, in this country, our media tend to always find a negative spin on any story they find. Similarly the general public don’t applaud success they loathe and despise it.
This was a totally innocuous trip that usually wouldn’t merit any kind of media attention and not should it have done. I know the circumstances here and the pilot wasn’t popping in for a butty by helicopter he was genuinely helping someone out . As a helicopter owner myself I do many trips a year helping people out as does the pilot/owner of this heli. Every now and then we pick up unwanted attention despite our intentions being totally innocent and usually very generous in nature . I also don’t feel as if we have to go around worrying that someone may misconstrue our generally good intentions because they’re bitter enough to want to find fault in what we’re doing. The amount of times someone says to me ‘don’t do that because of this, and don’t post that photograph here because of that’ infuriates me . No one should have to live their life worried that they’re a target for unjustified criticism. The owner and pilot of this heli will be mortified at how his very generous and good intentions have been portrayed particularly as the reports are totally out of context - as usual . |
Joel stop trying to defense the indefensible. When I take my aircraft out for a maintenance flight I take it for a 10 minute flight every 10 days or so, then land and put it away. Not that I couldn't do more but the optics are what matters.
As others have said, the green eyed monster will always look out for rich guys doing what they want. The pilot concerned has put us all in a worse place with the general public who are all fed up. |
My reaction was "publicity stunt".
As to this being illegal my missus hit ther nail on the head when she said "he's not doing anything wrong. Travelling for food which is an essential item is permitted.". You know, she has a point. I guess the pilot could always claim he was "testing his eyes". |
How many hours do you have to do, in what time period, to remain legal on his license?
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Originally Posted by JTobias
(Post 11003293)
I know the circumstances here and the pilot wasn’t popping in for a butty by helicopter he was genuinely helping someone out .
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206 Jock - I don’t want an argument but I’ll defend what and who I like. It’s no more your business to criticise than it’s mine to defend - except perhaps I know the pilot and the circumstances where you probably no neither. Quite frankly I know what its like to have been vilified in the press when no one but me and a select few know the exact truth and then have no real opportunity to reply.
The fact that we are even locked down is a national disgrace. The rules are a joke, the response to the pandemic are nationally, and globally, a gross over reaction and the fact that anyone’s civil liberties have been restricted in this way is beyond scandalous. Nevertheless it’s everyone’s choice what they do and if the pilot here wants to fly their aircraft in any manner whatsoever its their business and their business alone. We’ve become a politically correct, left wing, prissy, woke and snowflake society, so scared of it’s own shadow that the unfounded fear of death has made people frightened to live................. |
Bravo 73 - Whether they do, whether they don’t
Whether they were followed or whether they weren’t its no one else’s business.......... and Don’t even get me started on wether or not we should even be in lockdown....... Everyone is so quick to criticise these days no one on this planet is a saint.................. |
Originally Posted by JTobias
(Post 11003354)
206
The fact that we are even locked down is a national disgrace. The rules are a joke The world is in the same situation, as inconvenient as that may be for you. That is the sort of selfish and entitled behaviour that deserves the sanction it gets. No one with that attitude has any place in a cockpit. |
Originally Posted by Bravo73
(Post 11003351)
But the current lockdown restrictions don’t apply to your mate?
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Has anyone else noticed that bad behaviour in helicopters often seems to be type-specific?
I have two types in mind. (and Robinson isn't one of them) |
ADS-B is not always your friend.
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Originally Posted by Fortyodd2
(Post 11003217)
.......just because you can, doesn't mean that you should...............
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Originally Posted by JTobias
(Post 11003354)
We’ve become a politically correct, left wing, prissy, woke and snowflake society, so scared of it’s own shadow that the unfounded fear of death has made people frightened to live.................
It boggles the mind that anyone with the zest for life it requires to fly helicopters, particularly those who fly some of the most demanding and dangerous missions, fall into that category. And yet, PPRuNe is completely dominated by such folk. The situation is 100% opposite in the 'states. This guy would be hailed as a hero, and twice that on the US helicopter social media conclaves. But then we are all ignorant, selfish, unprofessional savages over here, right? There you go, JT, I'm spreading the pain a little for you! Not so selfish, eh? :ok: |
Just so we know what we are talking about, this is the current state of play in England:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national...can-leave-home
When you can leave home You must not leave or be outside of your home except where you have a ‘reasonable excuse’. This is the law. The police can take action against you if you leave home without a ‘reasonable excuse’, and issue you with a fine (Fixed Penalty Notice). You can be given a Fixed Penalty Notice of £200 for the first offence, doubling for further offences up to a maximum of £6,400. A ‘reasonable excuse’ includes: WorkYou can only leave home for work purposes where it is unreasonable for you to do your job from home. This includes, but is not limited to, people who work within critical national infrastructure, construction or manufacturing that require in-person attendanceVolunteeringYou can also leave home to provide voluntary or charitable services. You must volunteer from home unless it is not reasonably possible for you to do so.Essential activitiesYou can leave home to buy things at shops or obtain services where necessary. You may also leave your home to do these things on behalf of a disabled or vulnerable person or someone self-isolating.Education and childcareYou can only leave home for education, registered childcare, and supervised activities for children where the child is eligible to attend. Access to education and children’s activities for school-aged pupils is restricted. See further information on education and childcare. You can continue existing arrangements for contact between parents and children where they live apart. If you live in a household with anyone aged under 14, you can also form a childcare bubble.Meeting others and careYou can leave home:
ExerciseYou can continue to exercise alone, with one other person or with your household or support bubble. This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area.You should maintain social distancing. See the exercising section of this guidance.Medical reasonsYou can leave home for a medical reason, including to get a COVID-19 test, for medical appointments and for emergencies.MaternityYou can leave home to be with someone who is giving birth or, accessing other maternity services, or to be with a baby receiving neonatal critical care. There is NHS guidance on pregnancy and coronavirus.HarmYou may leave home, to avoid injury or illness or to escape risk of harm (such as domestic abuse).Compassionate visitsYou may also leave home to visit someone who is dying or someone in a care home (if permitted under care home guidance), hospice, or hospital, or to accompany them to a medical appointment.Animal welfare reasonsYou can leave home for animal welfare reasons, such as to attend veterinary services for advice or treatment.Communal worship and life eventsYou can leave home to attend or visit a place of worship for communal worship, to attend a funeral or event related to a death, to visit a burial ground or a remembrance garden, or to attend a wedding ceremony. You should follow the guidance on the safe use of places of worship and must not mingle with anyone outside of your household or support bubble. Weddings, funerals and religious, belief-based or commemorative events linked to someone’s death are all subject to limits on the numbers that can attend.Further reasonable excusesThere are further reasonable excuses. For example, you may leave home to fulfil legal obligations, or to carry out activities related to buying, selling, letting or renting a residential property, for the purpose of picketing, or where it is reasonably necessary for voting in an election or referendum. See guidance on campaigning during the national lockdown. This applies to anyone campaigning for electoral events.https://www.gov.uk/government/public...neral-aviation
Permitted GA activities GA flying is permitted for the purposes of work, where it is not reasonably possible to work or provide those services at home. Social distancing measures must be in place and observed at all times. Flying training organisations providing training for professional pilots, for the purposes of work, may continue to do so. Individuals undertaking such activity may continue to attend for these purposes. Social distancing measures must be in place and observed at all times. Engine health and maintenance check flights can only take place where there is a critical safety requirement to do so, and alternative options are not available. Such flights, where conducted, must be kept to the minimum duration possible and should land at the same airfield from which they departed, except where this is outside the reasonable control of the pilot. |
Originally Posted by SWBKCB
(Post 11003432)
Just so we know what we are talking about, this is the current state of play in England:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national...can-leave-home One of the major sources of angst and confusion in this period has been the government issuing legislation - which is legally binding - and then guidelines - which aren't. The guidelines are no more than "ministerial wishes" - they are not statutory and have zero legal status. Nor are they intended (or allowed in law) to be a guide to interpreting the law. This has caused much confusion and gnashing of teeth unnecessarily. For example in that gov.uk page, regarding exercise, many people read " This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area" as law, when in fact the statute contains no limit to how many times a day you can leave your house for exercise, or how far you can travel. This confusion is further compounded by media coverage of Police issuing (incorrectly) FPNs for people travelling some distance for exercise. FPNs which are later rescinded and apologies issued. We are in a dangerous place as a society when the Police are punishing citizens for complying with the law. It could well be the case that the chap in the helicopter here was complying with the law. It would be good if those claiming to be in the know could share the facts. |
I am more interested the sandwich. What’s in that makes It so good and will they deliver......to Malta!
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JTobias
The fact that we are even locked down is a national disgrace. If you know the full story then why not detail it? |
Originally Posted by havick
(Post 11003411)
You always should.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 11003704)
JTobias No, the fact that people can't see that controlling the spread of the virus is the only way forward is the National disgrace - no snowflakery here just gobsmacked that people can be so selfish so much of the time.
If you know the full story then why not detail it? Are people - during the current state of lockdown - not allowed to buy a sandwich (on foot, or by car)? No, this is just plain envy (which however is a force to reckon with). |
Originally Posted by Hot and Hi
(Post 11003745)
And you control the spread of the virus by not flying your aircraft?
Are people - during the current state of lockdown - not allowed to buy a sandwich (on foot, or by car)? No, this is just plain envy (which however is a force to reckon with). One set of rules for everyone, they don't vary based on the thickness of your wallet or your mode of transport. Buying a sandwich, if it is local, isn't an issue. It's travelling a distance to get one where the problems start. Unfortunately some members of the public think they know better, or are smarter, by trying to find loopholes to justify why rules don't apply to them. Heaven forbid anyone be inconvenienced or have to make sacrifices so we can all emerge from this crisis. If the same attitudes and weakness of character existed in the 40's, they would all have German accents now. :ugh: |
BellRinger - :ok: I live in the SW of UK which has the lowest rate of infections and deaths in the country but the majority of us still abide by the restrictions and guidance, despite the City-dwellers who think they have a God-given right to come down here just because of the sea and beaches.
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Outrage is a default setting in the UK. The government and large corporations have set people against each other to have you all just where they want you. Divide and conquer is the new maxim whichever way you look. About time we all just started being responsible for our own actions and not monitoring everyone else's.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....2023effc8.jpeg |
About time we all just started being responsible for our own actions |
If only he was testing his eyes... :}
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Originally Posted by silverelise
(Post 11003567)
Just a word of caution to be careful when quoting gov.uk as the source of law - it isn't. The actual legislation for England is here: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2020/1374/contents
One of the major sources of angst and confusion in this period has been the government issuing legislation - which is legally binding - and then guidelines - which aren't. The guidelines are no more than "ministerial wishes" - they are not statutory and have zero legal status. Nor are they intended (or allowed in law) to be a guide to interpreting the law. This has caused much confusion and gnashing of teeth unnecessarily. For example in that gov.uk page, regarding exercise, many people read " This should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area" as law, when in fact the statute contains no limit to how many times a day you can leave your house for exercise, or how far you can travel. This confusion is further compounded by media coverage of Police issuing (incorrectly) FPNs for people travelling some distance for exercise. FPNs which are later rescinded and apologies issued. We are in a dangerous place as a society when the Police are punishing citizens for complying with the law. It could well be the case that the chap in the helicopter here was complying with the law. It would be good if those claiming to be in the know could share the facts. |
As a keen motorcyclist, what I’ve found quite pathetic is “clever” people boasting on social media about the 50 mile scenic ride out they’ve just done on their motorbike to get some “essential” groceries. I’ve recently seen photos some genius has posted with a pack of toilet rolls strapped to his pillion seat, as his excuse.
My own bikes have been locked away since last autumn and they can stay that way until the government guidelines change. Having said that, I have flown for work purposes (these days I don’t fly for leisure). |
We've all been going at this long enough by now that the stark realities and necessities should have taken hold, even in the most stubborn or challenged of minds.
It really does not matter what is enshrined in law, or written in a guideline. Our responsibility as a member of society, who hopefully also considers other people, not just themselves, are quite clear. Some common sense and common courtesy and respect should apply. It is easy to say general aviation is not a major factor so why should it be subject to regulation. It is all lowest common denominator thinking. Parts of the public always take advantage and that ruins it for everyone else. Complex regulations that treat people differently are impossible to enforce and just create the perception of a lack of fairness. So we all suffer together, equally. It would have been easy to get all the misbehaving and flouting under control, all they needed to do was hold a few public floggings of instagram-influencers and B-grade pop goddesses. :E |
Originally Posted by Bell_ringer
(Post 11003883)
We've all been going at this long enough by now that the stark realities and necessities should have taken hold, even in the most stubborn or challenged of minds.
It really does not matter what is enshrined in law, or written in a guideline. Our responsibility as a member of society, who hopefully also considers other people, not just themselves, are quite clear. Some common sense and common courtesy and respect should apply. It is easy to say general aviation is not a major factor so why should it be subject to regulation. It is all lowest common denominator thinking. Parts of the public always take advantage and that ruins it for everyone else. Complex regulations that treat people differently are impossible to enforce and just create the perception of a lack of fairness. So we all suffer together, equally. It would have been easy to get all the misbehaving and flouting under control, all they needed to do was hold a few public floggings of instagram-influencers and B-grade pop goddesses. :E |
Originally Posted by alfaman
(Post 11003929)
It absolutely does matter - how else would society continue to function?
If we only behave in a way that’s defined by lawmakers, humanity would have long-since ceased to be. Its the difference between regulations and good airmanship. This really shouldn’t be difficult to comprehend. |
JTobias,
your stance is quite clear about Covid19 and the national lockdown; however, this is a global pandemic and it's quite obvious now that maintaining pre-existing levels of social interaction would have caused more suffering. I do understand the levels of risk involved, it's no worse than picking up a burger at a drive through, as a publicity stunt however, it's not so much a shot in the foot but a howitzer. You've been called out on the reason which you've alluded to as being altruistic but have remained silent; You are indeed at liberty to defend who you like, but you've not provided any mitigating circumstances to make anyone reconsider. |
Originally Posted by Bell_ringer
(Post 11003960)
Societies don’t function because of what is written into law, they work because it is understood what is socially acceptable and what part an individual plays.
If we only behave in a way that’s defined by lawmakers, humanity would have long-since ceased to be. Its the difference between regulations and good airmanship. This really shouldn’t be difficult to comprehend. |
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