RAF announces Puma Replacement plan
 

They could have bought a fleet of 225's for cheap if they had moved fast enough!

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...placement-plan

UK reveals Puma replacement plan

by Gareth Jennings



The United Kingdom is set to replace its Westland-Aerospatiale SA 330E Puma HC2 rotorcraft with a new aircraft type via its New Medium Helicopter (NMH) requirement.
https://www.janes.com/images/default...rsn=2e93669c_2While the Puma’s put of service date of 2025 has long been known, the UK had not revealed its plans for the type or the wider medium-lift helicopter capability after this date. Speaking at the Defence IQ virtual International Military Helicopter conference on 23 February, Colonel Paul Morris revealed the New Medium Helicopter requirement to replace it with a new type. (Crown Copyright)

Speaking at the Defence IQ virtual International Military Helicopter conference on 23 February, a senior military officer gave the first official indication that a replacement for the Puma is being sought.

The Royal Air Force (RAF) currently fields 23 Puma helicopters that were upgraded to the HC2 standard in the mid-2010s. With the airframes themselves dating back to the early 1970s, these helicopters are slated for retirement in 2025.

While no replacement for these helicopters has officially been touted before (options have previously included extending the type out of 2030 or losing the capability altogether), Colonel Paul Morris, Assistant Head Plans, Capability Air Manoeuvre, noted that the NMH requirement is being drawn up. The colonel did not disclose details but did say that the UK Rotary Wing Strategy is scoping potential options.

Talk about long winded.

The RAF were in serious discussions about the contenders for a Puma replacement when I began my first tour flying them in 1979. So, 42 years later....

Must be about due a Wessex replacement then:)

I think that was part of the same Air Staff Target. Unfortunately I can’t remember the AST number.

Very late edit: Having seen the last photo in the thread, the term “AST404” just came into my head…. I think that’s the correct one but it must have been forty years since. The memory is a strange thing.

But a military refit/modification would probably have cost more than a new one!

Better leave it to the professional negotiators.
Let them ponder somewhat more over it.
Then they buy new H225M from Airbus and negotiate some futile counter orders or the promise that Airbus will not pull their wing fabrication from the UK.
(which they are not planning anyway)

If the UK would want like-for-like replacement, the H215M could be a better option.

Bell 525 or Blackhawk.

No more eurotrash.

I watched him talk as attending the same conference this week, interesting points raised and it could conceivably FVL ..

cheers

4 years ago Bell touted a mil version of their 525 strangely enough ..

Blackhawk would have fitted AST whatever it was 3 and half decades ago but probably not for tomorrow’s battlefield. Then again ask any SHF aircre from that era and they be wishing we had UH-60 to replace the Wessex.


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Times have changed. The Royal Air Force Puma replacement being announced by a Colonel.

The joys of JHC :)

Colonel Paul Morris, Assistant Head Plans, Capability Air Manoeuvre, - These days it's all about capability owners, not platforms.

I built the coffee bar in 33 Sqn. at Odiham before it was reformed. I was in the front of XW 204 with Trevor Wood on its first flight from Odiham.

When I die I will go to Hell. My Squadron boss will be a lieutenant commander and the station commander will be a women.

Trevor Wood who reported a bird strike if I remember correctly, managed to hit it sitting on its nest, if the green stained damaged rotor tips were to go by.

I wonder if my old SD hat is still hanging on the Hart’s antlers in the 33 Sqn crew room? It was still there in 1981 although it often disappeared for a few weeks at a time on detachment. Must be green by now.
pedro

Two things strike me of those images posted by Chopper,
One it’s low and long which must put the tail awfully low in battlefield scenarios, especially from a pilots position.
Assuming you have a crewman to control the pongoes, having 4 doors must be a nightmare, especially as you are blocked from controlling the ingress and egress from the front compartment by seating. One assumes after dropping off the SLF means the crewman will have to egress it to secure the doors..

Finger trouble :)... now sorted...now sorted.. ;)

You cannot get two full infantry sections in CEMO in a 330.

In a (Eurotrash?) H215M or H225M you can easily get two sections in CEMO plus a monster pile of ammunition. :ok: Bit of a hot n high issue with the H225M perhaps.

In a Bell 525 you can get an entire Divisional O Group, dressed in well-fitting smocks, complete with their laptops. :E

I guess this won't be spec'd by a Gunner though. :sad:

NH-90?
 

The Belgians have got some hardly used NH-90s in storage. I reckon we could get a good price.

NH90 would be a disaster. The best thing the U.K. could do is select a proven reliable airframe to fit this purpose.

LZ

Sounds like the usual partizan comments coming through already, with various vested interests trashing the oppositions machines. It always happens. The RAF/MOD will make its own decisions

TF

no RAF helicopter has ever had a credible replacement date - such a waste of ink and hot air. Tail wheel and high TR is a must - have we not at least learnt that much!!!
Lost count of the number of dates we were given for Wessex/Puma replacement back in the day

Not as yet the NH90 TTH still operational as can see by this CSAR /PRV exercise in the week


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AW149 Farnborough 2014 and 2016
 

First time I came across the AW149 was Farnborough Air Show 2014 (my pics below ) and as it happened on the Monday, the Italian MoD / Armaments Directorate had approved the AW149.


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Two years alter Farnborough Airshow 2016, I attended the Leoanrdo brief on the AW149 (my photos). They had announced AUW increase for the a/c and as such also cleared it to integrate Russian gun/rocket system to attract say Eastern European countries. Anyhow they brought 2 x a/c with them.


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Say for example we pick it in 2025-2030 timeline so it be decade plus in existence. I believe the Egyptian military are a recent customer of the type (probably supplied via US Army like their SAR AW139).

Cheers

Shouldn’t they just buy Blackhawks? Or is that too obvious and/or political?

☝🏽 The obvious choice would be Blackhawk. Watch Leonardo dangle a carrot and say they’ll build any 149 order at Yeovil.

LZ

Maybe Blackhawk powered by something like RTM322?

Oh hang on....I’ve just had a flashback.

Shy - better get Michael Heseltine on the phone:ok:

From a crewman's perspective, none of the types that have transverse seating are suitable for the crewman to move around the cabin. On the Blackhawk for instance from their seat they cannot reach the doors and have to rely on the troops to close it. RAF Crewman have always had room to move from Whirlwind to Wessex to Puma to Chinook and then Merlin. We have always been able to use the cabin with minimum of fuss from troops to freight to casevac, or mixture of all. Small low cabins are pointless no matter how many fancy digital screens at the pointy end for the pilots, if you cannot achieve the task for the Army, which is why we have them in the first place.

And polish the mace while 😬🤠 you at it

If they intend to keep the capability 225/725 is the only choice. If they downsize then surely 149 is the choice.

Some have said similar to you regarding rear crew training with the Airbus H145 Valley re DHFS/Ascent etc
cheers

Something like that. Is there a hot n high H225/725 because an off the shelf H225 is optimised for those long crew change flights over the ocean and we'd be back where we were several decades ago?

H175M
 

With the musings on H225M/H215M any thoughts on Airbus offering H175M?? AFAIK only two government operators, albeit prapublic Royal Thai Police Aviation Division (VIP??) and Hong Kong Government Service - (Special Duties Unit and SAR/EMS support). I am not awaree of any mil developments planned...

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...acement-for-uk

Cabin space probably a tad more with headroom, then AW149 ....I suppose thats about it.

cheers

Good time to resurrect the Westland Westminster. A couple of PT6`s and job done.

Sikorsky and Boeing
 

Supposedly L-M Sikorsky may be offering UH-60M / S-70i



Hmmm let’s throw Boeing into the mixed bag with Mh-139 according to their musings

https://www.janes.com/defence-news/n...-later-in-2021

cheers

UH-60M on an FMS basis would be a great MOTS purchase. FMS keeps the price very competitive. I have no idea if the RAF would go Euro after Brexit.

Looking at the photos of the AW149, as posted above. Very nice.

However, having flown both analogue and more modern glass screen cockpits, I can’t help thinking how much could be put out of action in that cockpit by just one bullet, especially bearing in mind that a Data Aquisition Unit has to process all the information displayed.

As much as I like modern displays, I’ve suffered an inflight loss of a DAU, which resulted in the loss of ALL aircraft systems information, including engine temperatures, pressures, rpm, torque, electrics, hydraulics, rotor rpm, fuel contents, the lot.

Sometimes I’d prefer analogue, rather than having all the eggs in one basket.

Crab and Shy: your posts brings back memories of flying the Rolls UH-60 with their RTM-322 installed and after the engine/airframe integration testing had been accomplished. Flew with Rolls test pilot Ken Robertson, and was impressed with both the performance of that engine, and the rigor with which they had tested same. Wouldn’t it be ironic to see something resurrect that idea this far down the road. BTW, there is some decent coverage of the Heseltine Affair in the Alan Bristow biography, but not the whole story, aircraft configuration-wise, as to why that ship wasn’t bought by the Saudi government. A missed opportunity for both companies.

[


Thats a pretty strange architecture if failure of one DAU causes all systems to fail.... what about redundancy??? In the aircraft I fly at least two, in some cases even three “DAU’s” would have to fail before I loose all information.... the screens auto-reconfigure if a screen fails... etc etc..

As someone said below, pretty rubbish architecture if there's a single point of failure across the entire cockpit . However, I'd be more disappointed about the loss of ballistic protection given by all those steam gauges in front of you - I've yet to see an MFD marketed as bullet proof!