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The other factor that may have come into play is if you approached the said company and said “ look your helicopter is on our shortlist for say 30 examples and we require 4 in the short term to cover Cyprus and Brunei, what is your best offer”
and bearing in mind they would then be looking at the overall contract and possibly get a foot in the door, you would imagine they would possibly get a cracking deal on a use and return if not selected. I would imagine they would possibly have been able to furnish used or demonstrators. |
There was nothing wrong with the 412's they were EP's if they wanted to upgrade could have had them brought up to EPX spec for a fraction of new machines (like Canada is doing and other 412 operators are looking at), still better hot/high than a 145.
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Originally Posted by NutLoose
(Post 11540032)
The other factor that may have come into play is if you approached the said company and said “ look your helicopter is on our shortlist for say 30 examples and we require 4 in the short term to cover Cyprus and Brunei, what is your best offer”
and bearing in mind they would then be looking at the overall contract and possibly get a foot in the door, you would imagine they would possibly get a cracking deal on a use and return if not selected. I would imagine they would possibly have been able to furnish used or demonstrators. You raise a very serious point and one I’m not convinced MOD/DSE can navigate ethically. |
MOD/DSE might have had a look at a civvy solution for both. Cyprus and Brunei both got a mention at Heli Investor by Bristows Russ Torbet as possible opportunity.
What sort of service and with what platform would you get for 140m StG ? https://www.helicopterinvestor.com/w...ure-of-SAR.pdf |
Originally Posted by Franks Town
(Post 11540416)
MOD/DSE might have had a look at a civvy solution for both. Cyprus and Brunei both got a mention at Heli Investor by Bristows Russ Torbet as possible opportunity.
What sort of service and with what platform would you get for 140m StG ? https://www.helicopterinvestor.com/w...ure-of-SAR.pdf |
There is very little SAR requirement in Cyprus either.
Bristow are doing well getting many SAR contracts but are still without a training school to create the crews (especially rearcrew) to fill all those contracts. |
Originally Posted by Blackhawk9
(Post 11540176)
There was nothing wrong with the 412's they were EP's if they wanted to upgrade could have had them brought up to EPX spec for a fraction of new machines (like Canada is doing and other 412 operators are looking at), still better hot/high than a 145.
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HOGE MTOM @ ISA
H145D3: 8.955 ft (3.800 kg) AW169EP: 11.500 ft (4.800 kg) B412EPX: 8.200 ft (5.530 kg) HOGE MTOM-100 kg @ ISA H145D3: 10.815 ft (3.700 kg) AW169EP: 12.000 ft (4.700 kg) B412EPX: 9.000 ft (5.400 kg) HOGE MTOM-100 kg @ ISA+20 H145D3: 8.570 ft (3.700 kg) AW169EP: 8.400 ft (4.700 kg) B412EPX: 5.100 ft (5.400 kg) Sources: 169 RFM, 145/412 latest manufacturer data. |
Shortlisted bidders for the UK’s New Medium Helicopter (NMH) requirement will have to wait until the New Year for the next stage of the tender process after yet another schedule slip to the long-running procurement. Three companies – Airbus Helicopters, Leonardo Helicopters and Sikorsky – were notified in the autumn of 2022 that they had been cleared for the next stage of the NMH bid process, the release of the so-called Invitation to Negotiate (ITN). The release of the ITN, detailing the Ministry of Defence’s (MoD’s) exact requirements for the acquisition, was initially scheduled for September 2022. That was then pushed into the first quarter of this year, then later in the first half, before being delayed again until late 2023.However, that deadline has now slipped further; publication of the ITN is now not expected before late January or early February 2024, according to multiple sources familiar with the MoD’s schedule. |
Originally Posted by Phoinix
(Post 11541408)
HOGE MTOM @ ISA
H145D3: 8.955 ft (3.800 kg) AW169EP: 11.500 ft (4.800 kg) B412EPX: 8.200 ft (5.530 kg) HOGE MTOM-100 kg @ ISA H145D3: 10.815 ft (3.700 kg) AW169EP: 12.000 ft (4.700 kg) B412EPX: 9.000 ft (5.400 kg) HOGE MTOM-100 kg @ ISA+20 H145D3: 8.570 ft (3.700 kg) AW169EP: 8.400 ft (4.700 kg) B412EPX: 5.100 ft (5.400 kg) Sources: 169 RFM, 145/412 latest manufacturer data. |
A better metric would be to compare APS weight and then find `disposable payload`to a selected altitude/temp..
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Originally Posted by sycamore
(Post 11553740)
A better metric would be to compare APS weight and then find `disposable payload`to a selected altitude/temp..
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Depends on where the aircraft is here in Oz 145 doesn't compare in range/payload to the EP, just about every operator that tried 117/145 end up going to 412's, though most 412 operators now going to 139, 412 is still a better bush machine.
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Originally Posted by Blackhawk9
(Post 11553825)
Depends on where the aircraft is here in Oz 145 doesn't compare in range/payload to the EP, just about every operator that tried 117/145 end up going to 412's, though most 412 operators now going to 139, 412 is still a better bush machine.
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https://www.flightglobal.com/defence...157068.article
The UK Ministry of Defence (MoD) could be close to issuing its long-delayed invitation to negotiate (ITN) to contenders for the New Medium Helicopter (NMH) requirement, Minister for Defence Procurement James Cartlidge indicates. “It will be published very soon,” Cartlidge told the House of Commons Defence Committee on 21 February 2024. Pressed further, he adds: “I am hoping before the end of this month.” The MoD in 2022 shortlisted a trio of potential bidders in support of a process primarily intended to replace Puma HC2 transport helicopters operated by the Royal Air Force, and at that time was expected to issue the ITN later the same year. Repeated slips to this schedule have frustrated rivals Airbus Helicopters, Leonardo Helicopters and Sikorsky parent Lockheed Martin, and seen the Puma fleet edge closer to a planned out of service date in 2025. Also speaking to the committee, Chief of Defence Staff (Finance and Military Capability) Lieutenant General Rob Magowan declined to provide an expected target date for an NMH platform to achieve initial operational capability (IOC), noting that these factors would be informed by responses to the ITN document. |
“It will be published very soon,” Cartlidge told the House of Commons Defence Committee on 21 February 2024. Pressed further, he adds: “I am hoping before the end of this month.” Repeated slips to this schedule have frustrated rivals Airbus Helicopters, Leonardo Helicopters and Sikorsky parent Lockheed Martin, and seen the Puma fleet edge closer to a planned out of service date in 2025. |
Although ORAC has posted about this in the Military Aviation forum - I am posting here to keep this thread up-to-date.
Press release Future UK military helicopter reaches next competition stageThe next stage of the New Medium Helicopter (NMH) Programme has been announced by the Minister for Defence Procurement, James Cartlidge, today.From:Ministry of Defence, Defence Equipment and Support, and James Cartlidge MP Published 27 February 2024
The NMH Programme is an initiative to acquire a modern medium-lift support helicopter, which will deliver up to five rotary wing requirements using a single aircraft-type. This means that the platform will be able to undertake Defence tasks that were previously undertaken by up to five different aircraft types, streamlining our capabilities. This will improve efficiency and operational flexibility, positively impacting ongoing and future UK operational capability. Once in service, it will provide the Armed Forces with a new medium lift aircraft capable of operating in all environments in support of a broad spectrum of Defence tasks, from warfighting to humanitarian efforts and operations around the world. It was announced at the International Military Helicopter conference in London today that the Invitation to Negotiate has been released, meaning the three NMH candidate suppliers - Airbus Helicopters UK, Leonardo Helicopters UK and Lockheed Martin UK - will now compile their bids to be evaluated by the Ministry of Defence to determine the winning bidder. The competition will be managed by Defence Equipment and Support (DE&S) and proposals will be evaluated through 2025 when, subject to Government approvals, a contract award is anticipated. Minister for Defence Procurement, James Cartlidge said:The New Medium Helicopter will provide essential support to our military operations, and we’re pleased to have reached this next important stage of the programme.The programme’s competition includes essential criteria that are key to securing vital rotary wing Operational Independence, allowing us to respond swiftly to emerging threats in a highly contested world. The NMH competition will include essential industrial considerations, spanning design, production, manufacture and importantly, export potential. This means that the New Medium Helicopter contract will secure the vital operational independence we require, as well as investing in UK skills for the long-term and demonstrates the UK Government’s commitment to the Defence & Security Industrial Strategy. |
I will correct that for you..
The competition will be mis-managed by Defence Equipment and Support (DE&S) and proposals will be evaluated through 2029 when, subject to Government approvals, a contract award is anticipated to refurbish the existing Puma fleet to HC Mk3 standard. |
Election year - Leonardo will threaten to close Yeovil, at the most opportune (politically) time the 149 will be announced winner.
Is there anyone that doesn’t realise NMH is a stitch up? |
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The United Kingdom intends on buying an estimated 14 fewer aircraft than targeted for its New Medium Helicopter (NMH) program, according to a senior industry executive : UK New Medium Helicopter buy reduced to around 30 aircraft: Spirit AeroSystems Exec - Breaking Defense The UK could buy as few as 23 aircraft through its New Medium Helicopter (NMH) contest, FlightGlobal can reveal : Minimum quantity sought through New Medium Helicopter tender falls further, sources indicate | In depth | Flight Global . |
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