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-   -   Contra-rotating helicopter now based on Mars (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/638744-contra-rotating-helicopter-now-based-mars.html)

jolihokistix 15th Apr 2021 07:01

Sometimes simply removing the battery and putting it back in again will do the trick.

TURIN 15th Apr 2021 07:01

It does beg the question why was this not discovered during testing before it was launched?

netstruggler 15th Apr 2021 07:14


Originally Posted by TURIN (Post 11028470)
It does beg the question why was this not discovered during testing before it was launched?

All you'd need would be an environmental chamber where you could adjust temperature, atmosphere and gravity.

Jhieminga 15th Apr 2021 08:14

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingenu...tests_on_Earth

netstruggler 15th Apr 2021 08:30


Originally Posted by Jhieminga (Post 11028506)

The giant vacuum chamber sounds good. The bit of string simulating weak gravity a bit less so..

Anyone know what the pair of 'ears' near the root of each rotor are for?

ApolloHeli 15th Apr 2021 08:38


Originally Posted by netstruggler (Post 11028515)
The giant vacuum chamber sounds good. The bit of string simulating weak gravity a bit less so..

Anyone know what the pair of 'ears' near the root of each rotor are for?

This is just a guess but they look like Chinese weights to me. Their centrifugal moment counters the zero-pitch return moment from the rotor blades so that pitch control is more stable.

ShyTorque 15th Apr 2021 09:39

Maybe they haven’t paid an EASA bill.

cattletruck 15th Apr 2021 13:08

I hope they don't suffer a MITM (Martian-In-The-Middle) attack during the new software upload, or the dreaded green screen of death.
Seriously, I wonder how they assessed the risk of applying the software patch against the high potential of making things even worse. I really do hope it all works out in the end as the pictures would be out of this world.

netstruggler 15th Apr 2021 15:43


Originally Posted by cattletruck (Post 11028665)
I hope they don't suffer a MITM (Martian-In-The-Middle) attack during the new software upload, or the dreaded green screen of death.
Seriously, I wonder how they assessed the risk of applying the software patch against the high potential of making things even worse. I really do hope it all works out in the end as the pictures would be out of this world.

They'll definitely have some Martian Packets to contend with.


A Martian packet is an IP packet seen on the public Internet that contains a source or destination address that is reserved for special-use by Internet Assigned Numbers Authority (IANA). On the public Internet, such a packet either has a spoofed source address, and it cannot actually originate as claimed, or the packet cannot be delivered.

mickjoebill 18th Apr 2021 02:55

The other martian lander, InSight,has had to restrict its experiments, as its solar panels are covered in dust.

Would be captivating and fab PR, if the helicopter could be used to fly across country/planet to blow dust off the panels of the dying lander:) The downdraft has to be equal to the weight of the helicopter, but are there any other factors to consider in this mission in relation to a thin atmosphere?


InSight has a small robotic arm, I wonder why these arms aren't designed to sweep dust from the panels?
https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f0f5ea1dcf.png

https://www.nasa.gov/mission_pages/i...ain/index.html
Mjb

jolihokistix 18th Apr 2021 03:46

Presumably that opened like an umbrella. Oops, did it go 'click'?

ETOPS 19th Apr 2021 10:59

Well done! - successful first flight.

TURIN 19th Apr 2021 11:17

Yep, well done NASA. Great achievement.


Arnie Madsen 19th Apr 2021 14:02

4 pound helicopter that requires 10 pilots .
This is progress ??

cavuman1 19th Apr 2021 15:28

View of first flight from 140 million miles away!

- Ed


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....02dadb9cd0.jpg

TWT 19th Apr 2021 20:13


Originally Posted by Arnie Madsen (Post 11030715)
4 pound helicopter that requires 10 pilots .
This is progress ??

It needs all those people to analyse the data sent back over an average of 140 million miles which takes more than 16 minutes to transit to Earth.

Flight control is autonomous :)

Well done Ingenuity crew !

retoocs 19th Apr 2021 21:13


Originally Posted by Arnie Madsen (Post 11030715)
4 pound helicopter that requires 10 pilots .
This is progress ??

Flying with rotor blades in atmospheric pressure of 0.095 psi is impressive, equivalent of over 100,000 ft.

atakacs 19th Apr 2021 21:37


Originally Posted by retoocs (Post 11030870)
Flying with rotor blades in atmospheric pressure of 0.095 psi is impressive, equivalent of over 100,000 ft.

Indeed. I was really surprised that it could be done at all. That being said not sure what actual use future developments will have. This is very much on the edge of practical use IMHO

highflyer40 20th Apr 2021 08:06


Originally Posted by Nigel Osborn (Post 10993291)
If they want a pilot to go to Mars to fly a helicopter in the future as it takes 7 years to travel each way, as I haven't got 14 years left in me, I think I'll give it a miss!

It takes 7 months, not years to travel each way.

Denti 20th Apr 2021 12:50

https://www.icao.int/Newsroom/Pages/...operation.aspx

Interesting quirk by NASA in celebration of that flight ;)

To be fair, that 7 month window from earth to mars only opens every 26 months, transfers outside that window will take considerably longer.

PPRuNeUser0211 20th Apr 2021 12:52


Originally Posted by atakacs (Post 11030882)
Indeed. I was really surprised that it could be done at all. That being said not sure what actual use future developments will have. This is very much on the edge of practical use IMHO

Practical use on earth I'd suggest is limited (though there's always some trickle across, but it's never the obvious stuff!). However, in terms of planetary exploration it's a pretty big deal.

A long time friend works in that area and just one of their ideas is if you need small samples over a wide area, a sample retrieval system attached to the bottom of an autonomous helicopter that goes and fetches, come home, recharges and dumps the sample, then goes and does it again, allows them to cover huge amounts of territory by comparison to previous vehicles. To put this into context, Opportunity drove 45 or so kilometers in 14 and half years (2004-2018).

megan 21st Apr 2021 02:07

One of the uses given by local news is to use the helo to reconnoiter for interesting sites that the rover may then visit, save time and mileage on the rover wandering somewhat randomly looking for something worthwhile.

jimf671 14th Dec 2021 00:14

https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...everance-nasa?

Ant T 10th Sep 2022 20:45

After more than 18 months on Mars, still active. A flight on 6th Sept. lasting 56 seconds, and 97 meters.
31st sortie - not bad for a “proof-of-concept” trial !


https://www.space.com/mars-helicopte...ht-river-delta

meleagertoo 11th Sep 2022 13:18

AS ever yet another of NASA's proof of concept vehicles vastly outperforming it's published life and capability.
Amazing stuff.

mnttech 9th Nov 2023 12:52

As of 9 Nov 23 Completing 118.8 flying minutes, covering 9.3 miles (14.9 km), and reaching altitudes as high as 78.7 ft (24.0 m), 66 flights
Space Ingenuity

mnttech 26th Jan 2024 16:51

Made it all the way to Flight 72 before damage during a landing ended the mission

ShyTorque 26th Jan 2024 17:46

They've done amazingly well with it. An ex colleague of mine wrote his r/c helicopter off ground taxying it for its first ever takeoff and he was standing only a few yards away from it!

FakePilot 26th Jan 2024 19:47

So..... Air is 1/140 earth sea level but gravity is 1/3. Mach 1 isn't that fast at all. So it seems rotors wouldn't work at first thought. Hmmm, does it hover? In order to lift, the engine must produce enough HP to accelerate up at 1G (martian) . Then the rotors must convert rotational HP to moving air HP. My first guess would be really big rotors but then Mach 1 comes into play.
Seems like it wouldn't add up.

skadi 27th Jan 2024 10:13


Originally Posted by FakePilot (Post 11584237)
My first guess would be really big rotors but then Mach 1 comes into play.
Seems like it wouldn't add up.

Blade tip speed was <0,7 Mach. So no problem. JPL already tested the rotor for the next Mars helicopter with speeds up to 0,96 Mach

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ingenuity_(helicopter)

skadi

casper64 27th Jan 2024 17:06

Wondering if they have tried or will try to fly it with that damage?

skadi 27th Jan 2024 17:30


Originally Posted by casper64 (Post 11584738)
Wondering if they have tried or will try to fly it with that damage?

That would propably destroy Inguenity, with the loss of those big parts of the blade(s) the vibrations will exeed the limits for a safe flight and I am sure the produced lift won't be enough anyway.

skadi

Thirsty 27th Jan 2024 17:44

You need to keep it intact for Elon's museum.

mickjoebill 28th Jan 2024 12:07

If an aircraft is "grounded" on earth it is "???" on Mars..

jolihokistix 28th Jan 2024 12:23

A slim flexible strengthening rim might have been in order, not only to protect Martian locals from the naked blades.

judyjudy 28th Jan 2024 13:04


Originally Posted by mickjoebill (Post 11585195)
If an aircraft is "grounded" on earth it is "???" on Mars..

Don’t they have ground on Mars?


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