Need a fuel top up?
Well you learn something new every day, you can now fill up your Robinson at a regular petrol station!!
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8343715/Helicopter-pilot-lands-Polish-petrol-station-tank.html This is the strange moment a man lands his private helicopter at a petrol station to fill up on gas before paying and flying off. Mobile phone footage of the bizarre scene shows stunned customers looking on as the pilot lands and then pushes his chopper to a petrol pump at the station in the town of Garwolin in Poland. After filling the tank he then pays 'as if nothing had happened' before another video shows him climbing into the cockpit and taking off. |
The Cabri G2 can be run on "alternate fuel" as mentioned in the RFM, although I seem to recall an engineer told me "temporarily" means there is limit on the number of flight hours the alternate fuel grades can be used between 50H checks.
"Alternate grades Automotive unleaded gasoline can be used temporarily if it complies with EN228 or ASTM D4814 and following conditions : Minimum octane rating ............................................................ . 98 (*) Alcohols (ethanol, methanol, etc.) ............................... Zero content (*) (RON ≥ 98 and MON ≥ 87) or AKI ≥ 93 Note 1 : When using alternate grades, power is limited to maximum continuous power. Refer to page 2-8. Note 2: Refer to page 4-15 for management of possible fuel gage error." |
automotive gasoline STC
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Only the carbureted engines have the auto-gas STC; the fuel-injected engines require leaded fuel. I do wonder if you can fly a turbine on auto diesel.
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Only for a desperate reason, auto diesel has a lot more wax still in it than Avtur does. Can clog things up.
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Originally Posted by CGameProgrammerr
(Post 10789101)
Only the carbureted engines have the auto-gas STC; the fuel-injected engines require leaded fuel. I do wonder if you can fly a turbine on auto diesel.
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So as mentioned above there’s AutogasSTC for 44’s still in carbs. I know fixed wing STC’s demand auto gas with no or minimal ethanol to avoid amongst other things vapourlock. Would this be the same for the 44 or could you use regular or super unleaded from gas station?
Sorry for thread drift but worth knowing. |
Robinson automotive gasoline approvals: Use of automotive gasoline is approved by the FAA and by EASA by STCs:
Robinson R22 HP, Alpha, Beta, Beta II, Mariner, Robinson R44 Astro, Clipper, Raven I. The R44 also is approved for UL91 fuel. For Robinson products, the minimum octane is 91 (RON + MON/2). All fuels must meet ASTM Specification D-439 for leaded fuel or D-4814 for unleaded. Fuel containing alcohol is not approved, nor is E-85 fuel at this time. EUROPE: EN228 was found to be substantially similar to D-4814. A great many STCs have been sold in every country in Europe and now increasingly in Eastern Europe. The AS-350B2 allows the use of automotive gasoline as a replacement fuel with the following restrictions: 1. The use of gasoline is limited to 25 hours maximum between engine overhauls. 2. Requires adding 2% mineral lubricating oil if possible. 3. Maximum pressure altitude of 1500 ft and fuel temperature 30°C. |
A quick search on Wikipedia confirms most of the above that Avgas and Mogas are fairly compatible But was there really a good reason to land where he did, I doubt it and guess it was probably a stunt especially when you look at the take off and subsequent 180 turn.... probably a you tuber looking for ratings....
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Only for a desperate reason, auto diesel has a lot more wax still in it than Avtur does. Can clog things up https://www.casa.gov.au/file/78736/d...token=QoRwuv96 |
Helicopters have flight manuals The only reliable answer is to comply with it.
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Originally Posted by CGameProgrammerr
(Post 10789101)
I do wonder if you can fly a turbine on auto diesel.
https://m.facebook.com/story.php?sto...12547618964165 skadi |
The Turmo 3/C series gas turbines in the 330 Puma started off in life as motive power for French High Speed railway trains. They could run on anything as long as it was liquid. One can of engine oil per drum of Avgas would lubricate the pumps.
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I suspect that the shock horror reaction was more to do with the unexpected event of a helicopter (a "private" one to boot!!) filling up at a pertrol station rather than a public reaction to possible infrigerments of its Flight Manual.
And then flew away "as if nothing had happened". Nothing the onlookers weren't doing themselves, and then drove away as if 'nothing had happened'. You'd think he'd committed a murder, but then it is the Daily Wail again. Hardly the first time this has happened, so why the fuss? Even so, daft thing to do if you want to keep your licence. |
Originally Posted by nomorehelosforme
(Post 10789273)
A quick search on Wikipedia confirms most of the above that Avgas and Mogas are fairly compatible But was there really a good reason to land where he did, I doubt it and guess it was probably a stunt especially when you look at the take off and subsequent 180 turn.... probably a you tuber looking for ratings....
But else, can’t find anything special about this take-of. |
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Originally Posted by Fareastdriver
(Post 10789473)
The Turmo 3/C series gas turbines in the 330 Puma started off in life as motive power for French High Speed railway trains. They could run on anything as long as it was liquid. One can of engine oil per drum of Avgas would lubricate the pumps.
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Originally Posted by Same again
(Post 10790110)
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What are the odds of getting fuel without an ethanol content?
or perhaps the pilot is a regular because they have leaded 4* |
Pretty common “in the old days”.
I can remember planning via roadhouses on Robinson ferry flights across Australia We still had leaded fuel (“Super”) at the “servos”. Handy, as I was often flying IFR (I Follow Roads) - just prior to GPS. Old. |
Helicopters have flight manuals The only reliable answer is to comply with it Automotive Diesel Oil DCEA/21 C - VVF 800 DF2 TS.10.003 F54 Not to be used at OAT below -5° C - VVF 800 DF1 Not to be used at OAT below - 15°C - VVF 800 DFA F56 Not to be used at OAT below - 15°C Gasoil O 7120 STM MIL-F-16884 DEF 2402 (47/0 DIESO) F75 Not to be used at OAT below -5°C Gasoil 20 7120STM DEF 2402 (47/20 DIESO) F76 Not to be used at OAT below 0°C Illuminating Oil DCEA/11C VV-K211 DEF 2403 F58 Not to be used at OAT below - 15°C |
Given the length of the fuel hose I'm thinking their station has been used before as I can't see a need for a fifty foot fuel hose at a normal service station https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....3985239333.jpg |
Here's the Queensland AW139 filling with diesel at Belyando Crossing, west of Moranbah; not all that uncommon given the vast distances in Queensland and the paucity of Jet A1 bowsers :cool: :ok:
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....cac933f175.jpg https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....8248a2856e.jpg https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....98a2f1bce8.jpg http://www.facebook.com/qldambulance...7522879279425/ When I was flying Allouette IIs and 3s in Nigeria we could drop into almost any oil company pipe yard for a drum of diesel if we were 'caught short' for Jet A1 :p |
Diesel not on the FAA or EASA TCDS John, just an Oz thing?
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Originally Posted by megan
(Post 10790537)
Diesel not on the FAA or EASA TCDS John, just an Oz thing?
Queensland Government AirCorey Dark Good afternoon Corey! No this isn’t a PR stunt.😀 One of the great features of the AW139 Aircraft which is operated by QGAir is that they can run on Diesel fuel! This is especially helpful for our long distance Search and Rescue missions in the outback were Jet fuel can be hard to find. Thanks |
The problem with diesel is the possibility of low temperature fuel waxing in the airframe fuel filters; so even though the engine can safely burn it, it might not be approved.
It may be that an aircraft with heated fuel filters is safe, if not not allowed. Certainly the Puma HC1 didn't have heated fuel filters (so no diesel approval and FSII needed for Jet fuel), later Agusta helicopters do and it's allowed by the RFM. |
Originally Posted by Twist & Shout
(Post 10790382)
Pretty common “in the old days”.
I can remember planning via roadhouses on Robinson ferry flights across Australia We still had leaded fuel (“Super”) at the “servos”. Handy, as I was often flying IFR (I Follow Roads) - just prior to GPS. Old. Actually they did and I had to buy a full drum. (wasn't a R22 or R44) The place had an airstrip at the back, but the boss said he did not hear me land. Lucky it was an airstrip as needed a bit of a run at it to get airborne! |
Originally Posted by megan
(Post 10790537)
Diesel not on the FAA or EASA TCDS...
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So I would lay a farthing to Threadneedle Street that QG Air have appropriate approval from CASA |
Originally Posted by megan
(Post 10791478)
but I thought the TCDS would have the latest info,...
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Thanks wrench, sure gets complicated, every day is a learning day. :ok:
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The TCDS scheme is archaic, confusing and riddled with errors to the point of uselessness for anybody other than an entrenched bureaucrat. The 737MAX fiasco and it's tortured sheet proves that (A16WE, revision 65).
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Unfortunately it's the only source of information somebody has who doesn't possess a flight manual.
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Originally Posted by JimEli
(Post 10792945)
The TCDS scheme is archaic, confusing and riddled with errors to the point of uselessness for anybody other than an entrenched bureaucrat. The 737MAX fiasco and it's tortured sheet proves that (A16WE, revision 65).
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The problem with diesel is the possibility of low temperature fuel waxing in the airframe fuel filters; *Great Australian F*** All, there is nuffin' out there. |
Originally Posted by wrench1
(Post 10793353)
FWIW: have no clue in using a TCDS on a 737, but have used them on a semi-regular basis over the years on GA rotor/fixed wing aircraft for the issue/reissue of AWC/CoAs, compliance of conformity checks, etc. While I'm about as far away as you can get from an "entrenched bureaucrat," I would hate to see what type of document you would prefer to use for these regular certificate issuances/checks considering a TCDS is but a "sliver" of the aircraft certification documentation process.
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Pretty rare to need such things in the middle of the GAFA* where it is mostly darn hot |
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