You sound like a lot of fun at a party.

And yes, I have seen how tough that is----I may have talked to you about that very subject on the radio in June of 85 if you were there. I was on one of the Nimrods conducting the top cover during body recovery for Air India Flight 182 South West of Ireland. From what I remember, I was glad to be 1,000 feet above it all and not on the end of a winch.

In fact I am but this is to do with the harsh reality of rescues or body recoveries, one of which is much more 'fun' than the other:ok:

Gordy - I completely get all the HEC stuff and for that a winch is not required - pulling a casualty out of the water however, especially at night, is a different matter altogether. How many of your HEC pax are injured, unconscious or otherwise not fit and healthy?

No, I was in NI doing support helo stuff in 85 but heard lots of unpleasant stories about fishing all those bodies from the sea. Had my own experiences of that in later years doing UKSAR:ok:

It’s great to see the extensive medical knowledge about dead people in water amongst our members.... I’m really surprised that this thread has digressed so far off topic ... and before anyone shoots me down I have seen bodies dragged out of water.

Yeah. The diversion happened when I mentioned it was rather odd scrambling the helicopter at 2.00 am to search for a body in a bayou. I still think it could have waited until first light.

Agreed - :ok:

What is so unsound with a law enforcement agency utilizing a helicopter with FLIR and NVG trained crew to perform a search at night? I would expect any minimally trained/experienced crew to immediately abort at the first instance the perceived risk becomes too great. What do you think crews are doing when flying patrol duty during the same hours? I have thousands of hours performing this mission (one that has a far better safety record then the HEMS industry).

Just news, or news drama....

it doesn’t make the accident any better...

https://www.liveleak.com/view?t=9WEtr_1588636183


Tactical Flight Officer Jason Knox, 35, died from his injuries. The pilot, Senior Officer Chase Cormier, 35, was last listed in critical condition at Memorial Hermann Hospital.

The crew was responding to a call about bodies floating in a nearby bayou. No bodies were found and it wasn't clear if the call was legitimate.

As firefighters and officers worked to free the men from the wreckage, shots rang out across the street from the crash. Six people were taken into custody in what was believed to be an unrelated incident, Acevedo said.

Despite the questions and the possible coincidences, shooting at aircraft isn't unheard of.

"It is not commonly known that law enforcement aviation comes under fire on a regular basis across our country," Acevedo said.

The same question might be asked of the Rescue 116 crash in Ireland. They had all the good gear but still flew into a lighthouse at night that was marked on their map. But their purpose in being there was for a live person, not a dead body. The purpose of the operation is a relevant point, and searching for a body in a bayou at night might have waited until first light. I dare say if they had waited we wouldn't be here now talking about it. The outcome for the dead body either way is the same.

I do not think we have ascertained that they were searching for a dead body. I suspect they thought they were searching in the hopes it was a live body.

A report of "bodies in the bayou" is different from "people in the bayou" - the second one infers that they are trying to stay alive.

This is the really sad part, though.

Yes, but not much different from scumbags throwing bricks at firemen and paramedics in UK cities - the only difference is that they don't have guns!

The question is - what was their plan if they had found a live person in the water at night? Try an ad-hoc letdown over the water to put a skid in the water??? How well would that have gone? We have all seen instances on these pages where pilots have felt obliged to try things outside their experience or capabilities when life is at stake - sometimes they get away with it but the majority of cases end in tears.

Yes, get a helicopter up to have a look but mobilise ground/water units to assist in case quick action is needed to preserve life - the helicopter itself is just a location tool if they can't carry out a rescue.

I believe this was the case. I do not know of any unit that would do a short haul at night with the exception of one that I know of who have NVGs.

Incidentally, there was a water rescue in the town where I am based yesterday---with winch, in daylight.
https://cimg2.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....5ba8f2f4bd.jpg
https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....e433c302c5.jpg

As pointed out by wrench at post #18 it's not a body of water but a drainage ditch/creek.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....1f54ef855c.png

The HEMS industry best practice is not to consider patient details when making the go/no-go decision. However here, you people are demanding the opposite. How many HEMS aircrews died flying to pickup the drunk who fell off a park bench? Interesting.

There is a practical limit though, you aren't going to scramble to an ingrown toenail.

Similarly, if the body is dead, letting it wait till morning won't affect the outcome for the victim.

Sorry, I totally disagree. A proper 'Chinese Wall' means the flight crew have no medical information and the medical crew no met or other flight information. The moment the wall is breached the crew members behave to deal with information they shouldnt have, or worse still their uneducated perception of that information.

Scrambling to an IGTN is a failure of dispatch and the management's policies. same for a body. Totally agree you shouldnt waste resources on such requests, but that sort of decision shouldnt even get to the ready room.

NTSB has issued a preliminary report that doesn't seem to add much to what is already known. They did not travel to the crash but the site was inspected by the FAA.

Local media appears to be fixated on the report that the helicopter "rotated" before crashing. There are numerous local rumors that the aircraft may have been hit by gunfire. And details of the incident that resulted in the chopper being sent to that site remain murky.

Houston Chronicle article on NTSB report.

I know prune will not post anything I post, but you may want to point out to the forum that KPRC Houston is reporting they have a man in custody for shooting a gun into the air at the time and in the proximity to the helecopter crash.