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Helicopter missing in the Med
Norwegian news is reporting that a helicopter operating from a Canadian warship is missing between Italy and Greece. No further news.
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Canadian military helicopter reported missing while operating in MediterraneanDefence officials are scrambling following reports a Canadian military helicopter has gone missing while participating in a NATO operation in the Mediterranean Sea. Greek TV says the helicopter, which is believed to have been one of the Royal Canadian Air Force’s new Cyclones, went missing in the sea between Greece and Italy while operating off a Canadian frigate. A NATO spokeswoman confirmed an incident involving a helicopter from a ship under NATO command and says a search-and-rescue operation is underway, but did not reveal the nationality of the aircraft or vessels. HMCS Fredericton left Halifax for a six-month deployment around Europe in January with a Cyclone on board, which included a port call in Italy in March. The military’s 18 Cyclone helicopters carry four-person crews and first began flying real missions in late 2018 after more than a decade of developmental challenges and delays. https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....f72641c758.jpg |
Sadly 1 dead person recovered & 5 missing.
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How deep is the water?
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Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 10768265)
How deep is the water?
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Very sad - RIP - hope they locate and recover wreckage to try and work out what happened. Shame that Echo or Enterprise isn't in the Med... hopefully, someone has got something close-by that can locate it.
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SEE: https://www.pprune.org/military-avia...5-missing.html According to a June 23, 2014 report.....“The Conservative government has agreed to accept new helicopters to replace Canada’s 50-year-old fleet of Sea Kings even though they don’t meet a key requirement recommended for marine helicopters by Canada’s air safety investigator.....the government has agreed to forego...a formerly mandatory safety measure: a 30-minute run-dry standard for its main gear box. The importance of the ability to fly for 30 minutes after a loss of lubrication in the main gear box was reinforced by an investigation into a deadly 2009 crash of a Sikorsky-built helicopter. The gearbox is a kind of linkage between the helicopters engines and its rotor system. It’s packed with lubricating oil that cools the gears and keeps power flowing to the rotors. If a helicopter loses oil in its main gearbox, the system will get too hot and either seize up or otherwise fail. That would lead to a loss of power in the rotor, forcing a helicopter from the sky. A helicopter that meets the run-dry standard can continue flying for 30 minutes even if there’s no oil in the main gear box — a critical feature for helicopters flying hundreds of kilometres out to sea.” https://theaviationist.com/2020/04/3...Cu63ALQ-SNxyk1k . |
gwillie
So you are quite sure that it is gearbox case, again... Mean, nothing else can go wrong out there in the middle of nothing?! |
Originally Posted by 9Aplus
(Post 10769430)
gwillie
So you are quite sure that it is gearbox case, again... Mean, nothing else can go wrong out there in the middle of nothing?! |
From CBC news
Defence Minister Harjit Sajjan said the Cyclone’s flight-data and voice recorders have been recovered after they broke away from the helicopter when it crashed and will soon be returned to Canada for analysis. |
It must be catastrophic whatever happened. Naval aircraft are not short of radio communication devices and if it just disappeared without an emergency call then then whatever it was must have been almost instantaneous.
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Yeah, CFIT is instantaneous. A MGB dropping all its oil or a TR falling off or virtually every other mechanical malfunction is not.
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Apart from the likelihood of CFIT due to the lack of distress comms, there really is nothing in the public domain to go on. To start speculatively grasping at the S-92's weaknesses is currently a waste of time even by pprune's standards! Reports state that they have the recorders, so somebody will know more soon.
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TV news reports that it disappeared 17 minutes after departure, and that it was in the process of returning to ship. Also that flares had been deployed. Anybody confirm?
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Originally Posted by YeahYeah
(Post 10769715)
TV news reports that it disappeared 17 minutes after departure, and that it was in the process of returning to ship. Also that flares had been deployed. Anybody confirm?
(Military aviator). What did you mean by "flares deployed?" That, or something else? |
Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50
(Post 10769792)
"Flares deployed" says to me "shot at," perhaps by an IR guided SAM.
(Military aviator). What did you mean by "flares deployed?" That, or something else? |
Originally Posted by CYDC
(Post 10769462)
...the Cyclone’s flight-data and voice recorders have been recovered after they broke away from the helicopter when it crashed...
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he flight data recorders were recovered from the debris and are to be analyzed at the National Research Council in Ottawa.
In an interview with CBC News that took place before the search switched to recovery mode, Sajjan acknowledged the difficulty involved in reaching wreckage that may be as much as 3,000 metres below the surface of the Ionian Sea. Few nations possess that kind of deep-diving capability and Sajjan said he's been talking to NATO's secretary general and allies about the technological options. "I can assure you we will put in all of the resources necessary," said Sajjan who expressed confidence in the investigation team. "Our folks on the ground will figure what happened." The debris also is believed to be spread over a wide area on the ocean floor. One expert said that spread suggests something about the forces involved in the crash. "It suggests a high speed impact" with the ocean, said Michael Byers, a University of British Columbia defence expert who has testified before the Senate on search and rescue. "That will obviously increase the challenges of the recovery operation, but until we have something that can actually go down there — even just to take pictures — we really won't know what happened to the aircraft." From CBC news |
Maritime helicopters in this class are frequently fitted with an Automatically Deployed Emergency Locator Transmitter (ADELT) which would/could also contain memory modules for the FDR & CVR. This device is visible in pictures of the port side of the CH148 on the tailcone (orange disc).
Very sad news. |
Originally Posted by Hank195
(Post 10770072)
Maritime helicopters in this class are frequently fitted with an Automatically Deployed Emergency Locator Transmitter (ADELT) which would/could also contain memory modules for the FDR & CVR. This device is visible in pictures of the port side of the CH148 on the tailcone (orange disc).
Very sad news. |
Originally Posted by loop swing
(Post 10770380)
Whilst you are correct about the ADELT, they do not carry any memory modules. They are purely a location device.
See here: HR Smith CPI memory module |
Thank you. I was unaware of their existence. I've only encountered the position indicator only models.
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Deployable VFDR recorder
Originally Posted by loop swing
(Post 10770380)
Whilst you are correct about the ADELT, they do not carry any memory modules. They are purely a location device.
I dont know the term used for this on the CH-148 though... This one is used on the A/C I fly: Recorder Beacon Airfoil |
Now reported that it was inbound to the frigate, only two miles out. No doubt there will be eyewitnesses
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Crashed at 6:52 local, sunset at 8:30, 2 miles back from the frigate with everyone watching them coming in. CFIT would be a puzzler.
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The water is reported 3,000 meters deep. Blackhawk 221 was recovered from the same depth, challenging but it can be done.
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Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 10774231)
The water is reported 3,000 meters deep. Blackhawk 221 was recovered from the same depth, challenging but it can be done.
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Originally Posted by 212man
(Post 10774266)
Without wishing to start a thread drift - have you read the BOI report on that accident? Sobering reading!
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me too....
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Originally Posted by OttoRotate
(Post 10774634)
I'd be very interested in that, if you can share a link
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Seems unlikely that the sad loss in the Med has a similar cause. |
Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 10774714)
Dear oh dear, that was a catalogue of problems waiting to bite someone - and sadly it did. Not the first time a Special Forces Sqn thought they were more 'special' than they were in reality.
Seems unlikely that the sad loss in the Med has a similar cause. |
FBW
Could the fly by wire systems be called into question?
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Originally Posted by 212man
(Post 10775540)
I agree and wasn't suggesting that - simply responding to the reference to the incident
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anyone wonder if some airmanship shenanigans led to this tragedy?
like requesting to buzz the deck or scud run low level over the water or anything like that? I only offer this suggestion because their doesn't seem to be transparency from the get go from the military. Although I like Norman, his captain obvious assertion that it was one of two things, pilot error, or maintenance related was so basic, I think my dog could pick one or the other if a treat was offered. https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/mark...rash-1.4922760 |
Originally Posted by swampqueen
(Post 10775971)
Could the fly by wire systems be called into question?
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Originally Posted by GrayHorizonsHeli
(Post 10776278)
Although I like Norman, his captain obvious assertion that it was one of two things, pilot error, or maintenance related was so basic, I think my dog could pick one or the other if a treat was offered.
https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/mark...rash-1.4922760 |
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