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-   -   Single engine IFR certified helicopter (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/624400-single-engine-ifr-certified-helicopter.html)

helops 8th Aug 2019 11:23

Single engine IFR certified helicopter
 
https://helihub.com/2019/08/08/genes...certification/

Is it really IFR certified? Certified by whom?

SASless 8th Aug 2019 13:26

The US FAA approved the STC.

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-n...s-ifr-approval

MikeNYC 8th Aug 2019 13:38

The title "first" is a bit inaccurate. It's the only CURRENT offering, but there have certainly been other singles that have met IFR requirements.

How quickly we forget.
https://www.rotorandwing.com/2015/06...ne-ifr-helo-2/

Forty years ago, Vought Aircraft and Sperry collaborated to produce the SA-341 IFR Gazelle. This first IFR-certified single-engine helicopter was a breakthrough.
Bell 407 IFR:
http://fsims.faa.gov/wdocs/fsb/bell407fsb.pdf

And from our own PPRuNe: https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/37...r-capable.html



Misleading thread title edited

Senior Pilot

SASless 8th Aug 2019 14:03

Mike....that was a Johnny Come Lately as well.

Go back further and you will see there ws a piston engine IFR helicopter that set many records and gained IFR Certification.

The Cessna CH-1 Skyhook was certified for IFR flight by the FAA

MikeNYC 8th Aug 2019 15:04


Originally Posted by SASless (Post 10540129)
Mike....that was a Johnny Come Lately as well.

Go back further and you will see there ws a piston engine IFR helicopter that set many records and gained IFR Certification.

The Cessna CH-1 Skyhook was certified for IFR flight by the FAA

No doubt your memory and expertise exceeds mine. The claim "first" is usually dubious.

widgeon 8th Aug 2019 16:21

SH284WE
 
And of course the one off STC only for serial # 1005 . I wonder if this AS350-D is still flying

see also
SH284WE
SH4099SW
SH4669SW
SH8780SW-D
AND sr08244RC

( Slow day at the office )

Thracian 8th Aug 2019 16:28


Originally Posted by helops (Post 10540020)
https://helihub.com/2019/08/08/genes...certification/

Is it really IFR certified? Certified by whom?

At least, in this artice they're not claiming "first":

The TH-119 is the only single-engine helicopter in decades to meet current IFR requirements, ...
So the seem to know about the Gazelle (and mabye even the CH-1)
;-)

Thracian


Misleading thread title edited

Senior Pilot

helops 8th Aug 2019 22:07

Ok sorry, my mistake. It's not the first, I know. It's the only IFR single available today.

Well this is a great revolution I guess, hope other models like H125 and Bell 407 will follow this route..

Ascend Charlie 9th Aug 2019 01:30

We were flying IFR B206 back in 2008, probably plenty of others doing the same.

Autonomous Collectiv 9th Aug 2019 07:53

I think they mean certified as standard by the manufacturer Charles

flyingnomad 9th Aug 2019 14:14


Originally Posted by Autonomous Collectiv (Post 10540646)
I think they mean certified as standard by the manufacturer Charles

the 206 was certified IFR by the manufacturer. I flew an L3 that was IFR configured and certified. Air Methods operated them for years. These days if they still have the IFR kit, they get bought up and stripped out and the weight savings is probably 80 lbs or more.

KqQNr 15th Aug 2019 19:17

Bell 407GXi has achieved IFR certification per verticalmag.com.

RichiRich 9th Sep 2019 07:35

IR single engine training - europe
 
Does anyone know a place in europe where you can do single engine IR training?

paco 9th Sep 2019 12:58

Last one I heard of was in Billund

Taranto Knight 9th Sep 2019 13:52

Vantage Aviation at Old Sarum offer SE IR Courses on the B206L. Sim portion of the training is done at Starspeed Training Kemble.

RichiRich 10th Sep 2019 06:26


Originally Posted by Taranto Knight (Post 10565658)
Vantage Aviation at Old Sarum offer SE IR Courses on the B206L. Sim portion of the training is done at Starspeed Training Kemble.

I check the price in Vantage Aviation. Its 23.964 + VAT. So around 28,800 pounds + Longranger type rating. I assume that TR its around 6,000 it giver us 35,000 pounds. For anoyher 6,000 I can get ME IR on AS355 in Norway. Now the question is whether it is worth it? Some advice?

tottigol 10th Sep 2019 21:56


Originally Posted by flyingnomad (Post 10540940)

the 206 was certified IFR by the manufacturer. I flew an L3 that was IFR configured and certified. Air Methods operated them for years. These days if they still have the IFR kit, they get bought up and stripped out and the weight savings is probably 80 lbs or more.

Yes, flew one of those as a back-up to our three 412s, N772AM, back in the early 2000s.


helops 6th Mar 2020 14:52

Any news about Single Engine IFR so far?

havick 6th Mar 2020 18:05


Originally Posted by helops (Post 10704892)
Any news about Single Engine IFR so far?

What news? The 119 is now SPIFR from the factory if you want it. 2 year wait for delivery.

noooby 6th Mar 2020 19:39


Originally Posted by KqQNr (Post 10546159)
Bell 407GXi has achieved IFR certification per verticalmag.com.

Yes it has but only the 119 achieved IFR cert without any exemptions. I believe the 407 had to apply for two exemptions to get the IFR certification. The Koala complied with all requirements of the certification.

Two's in 7th Mar 2020 16:52

Terrifying to think that in Germany in the 80's and 90's within specified airspace you could fly a military Gazelle single pilot, single engine IFR, with one VHF radio, a non-Mode C transponder and a very dodgy "Tactical Navigation Aid" with a CEP of 2 continents.

handysnaks 8th Mar 2020 12:18

Yes. But you didn't have to worry about thinking yourself around a hold, followed by a procedural precision or non-precision approach, followed by a go-around of the sort Coventry applied...

SASless 8th Mar 2020 12:33


Yes. But you didn't have to worry about thinking yourself around a hold, followed by a procedural precision or non-precision approach, followed by a go-around of the sort Coventry applied...
What Ho, Spiffy.....how nice of the upper level staff being so considerate to lessen your workload and tasks to be completed on every Check Flight.

Far less equipment malfunctions to deal with as well....sometimes there is a good thing about simplicity.

Look on the bright side!

Ascend Charlie 9th Mar 2020 05:53

Oh, the days of a flameout TACAN, followed by a limited-panel SRA...

krypton_john 9th Mar 2020 06:37


Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie (Post 10707421)
Oh, the days of a flameout TACAN, followed by a limited-panel SRA...

Luxury.

In ma day we all we 'a were a piece of string and a stick!

handysnaks 9th Mar 2020 13:55


What Ho, Spiffy.....how nice of the upper level staff being so considerate to lessen your workload and tasks to be completed on every Check Flight.

Far less equipment malfunctions to deal with as well....sometimes there is a good thing about simplicity.

Look on the bright side!
😂 Very good SAS. Having proved my ineptitude flying one of them thar gazelles around the clouds and then confirmed that the ineptitude also carried on to the Super Puma (and various smaller but more modern types). I stand by the point. A PAR with an air trafficker doing most of my thinking for me was easier than me thinking myself into ever decreasing circles😊.

helops 26th Mar 2020 15:49


Yes it has but only the 119 achieved IFR cert without any exemptions. I believe the 407 had to apply for two exemptions to get the IFR certification. The Koala complied with all requirements of the certification.
Thank you,
what problems with the 407 IFR certification? Anybody?

PDFDAviator 31st Mar 2020 02:27

I believe one had to do with the 407 having only one hydraulic system. Bell had to demonstrate that the 407 was controllable and able to fly IFR with the hydraulics failed. No expert but I do not believe that the autopilot could handle the flight controls without hydraulics but I sure could be wrong. I have been tempted to see if the Helisas (VFR only autopilot) in the 407 I fly could handle the non-hydraulics loads however I don't want to break anything. The A119 has two systems. I can't recall what the second exemption was at the moment. I'll see if I can find it.

PDFDAviator 31st Mar 2020 02:43

The second was relief from HIRF (High Intensity Radiated Field). Credit to the article I located which is what I had previously read as to how they were certified. Won't let me post a link but complete credit to and very good article in ROTOR 2020 Winter edition publication. Google it.



helops 31st Mar 2020 21:39

https://www.rotor.org/resource?ArtMI...ArticleID=5143

Found. Thank you. Very interesting article.

Pugilistic Animus 1st Apr 2020 02:19

Doesn't a IFR heli require both an autopilot and Stability Augmentation?...at least in the US. Sounds expensive
Note I am not a helicopter pilot
​​​

Ascend Charlie 1st Apr 2020 04:17

Pug, there are good autopilots for B206 that cost around $30k, and glass cockpits for $15k, making the B206 an economical IFR machine.

Pugilistic Animus 1st Apr 2020 04:44

Actually, that's not that bad knowing that everything in aviation cost a least 10Gs.
thank you Ascend Charlie... unfortunately for me I will probably not be able to take my helicopter lesson by my birthday because of the virus. Damnit!

helops 1st Apr 2020 18:34

It would be interesting to find out if Airbus Helicopters would like to certify for IFR operations their H125 and H130. If even Bell certified the 407, anybody can do it, even Robinson Helicopters and Marenco/Kopter to follow.


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