R44 Down at Hayward Exc Airport Pilot killed Student injured
 

San Francisco Chronicle reporting that the pilot was killed and student seriously injured yesterday, the report also includes 10 year statistics for R44 crashes. The aircraft belonged to Pacific Helicopters and they were practicing take offs and landings when the accident happened.

https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...php?psid=cNPlV

It is surprising, from such a mundane exercise, someone can end up dead.
If you compare that to the crashworthiness of a Cabri, the Robbie leaves much to be desired.

Having been in a rollover incident many years ago in a R22, I can vouch for the fact that it is easy to smack your head during such an accident, something that could easily prove fatal and is not unique to robbies.

The statistics in the article state that during the period from 2006-2016, R44's averaged 1.6 deadly accidents per 100,000 hours flown, a rate nearly 50% greater than any of the other 12 most common civilian models tracked by the FAA.

Not seeing any stat's in that article???

The stats were in the San Francisco Chronicle article with a link to an LA Times article showing a graph and more info, currently can't post a link, please post if you look it up.

The article is fairly extensive and would be of interest to many on here, one of the firsts comments would be that of the 12 aircraft compared the one missing is the Cabri??

Here we go.

https://www.latimes.com/projects/la-...n-helicopters/

Of course, though a head trauma like that often proves fatal after the event and not at time of impact.
There seems to be fairly significant damage to the instructor side of the cockpit, while the rest of the aircraft seems to be in fairly good condition, hence the comment.
The Cabri as an example has had it's fair share of accidents in quote/unquote the landing phase and the cockpit remained in good condition. Different architecture and design philosophies but given the choice I know which one I would choose.

From the stats quoted further up, it would seem the ideal training aircraft is a 206, confirms what everyone already knows.

Stats...Shmats; wear a fvkin' Helmet & Your chance of survival is greatly increased...............nuff said!

Would You wear a Helmet riding a Motorbike? well a Helicopter is 100 times more dangerous! Don the BoneDome & live to tell the tale!

Happy landings

I was able to fact-check the 42 fatals in 5 minutes, but I continue to fail to find any source of fleet or model operating hours data. Does anyone know where I can obtain that?

The FAA data is from the General Aviation Survey and was only obtained via a FOIA request by the LA Times.

https://github.com/datadesk/helicopt...notebook.ipynb

Excellent link, SansAnhedral, thank you!

Ah, this explains why the data is so hard to get. I actually called the FAA, but no joy. I should have done a FOIA request!

I find this totally believable. I'm one of the many operators who gets that survey and can't be bothered to complete and return it.

That still puts the R44 at the top of the list at 1.16/100K, but not so dramatically.

You're making the assumption that the stats are accurate for all other types, it is safe to assume that like any survey, there is broadly a margin for error.

"They were practicing hovering, something that's unique to helicopters". I can see why this guy is a Manager.


https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....16b44d0f2a.png

Hey MJB......I wouldn't have thought so....I'd feel naked flying without a Helmet :ugh:

Happy landings

VF

Hey VF, flying in your environment I'm surprised you don't use two :}
It's difficult for students in the private world to justify the costs on day one nor to necessarily understand the risks.
Lowly paid instructors are also thinking twice about what it costs.
In their wildest dreams I doubt anyone could expect this outcome from hover exercises.

Live long enough to tell the tale; wear Your seat-belt & a helmet
 

Hey BR....what one for the little head? :8 might prove awkward to dance on them pedals :O Hmmm students can afford a $100,000 course but not a Helmet, sure doesn't make a whole bunch of sense to me! Today's instructors should know better & schools should leading the charge! When I trained Helmets where like Rocking Horse doodoo, no one wore them except the military & a few rare mustering lads! with today's wisdom of hindsight it should be mandatory kit, like seat-belts & radios, in my humble opinion...............:ugh:

Happy landings

Instead of coming here spouting your self righteous indignantcy, perhaps you two should actually do something about it. Lobby your Congressmen to make helmets mandatory. Training flights are nothing, just how many innocent passengers have been killed in the tour industry because they weren't wearing helmets? :ugh:

,...and don't forget to keep your helmet on when you get in your car. How ironic would it be for you to die in a car crash on your way home from the airport while your helmet sits in the trunk!
:ugh:

Ooow touched a raw nerve hey? I don't have a congressman nor a car, I ride bikes & always wear a Helmet! Don't think I've ever seen anyone drive a car wearing a stack-hat except in racing!

Training flights sure are not nothing as you call it....they are the very future of the industry & an important one at that, where many important foundations are created! Showing Your respect for training I see. Passengers don't fly much, but Pilots fly all day everyday, that's a bloody big difference & yes plenty of passengers have been killed in too many crashes, would they have been saved wearing a bone-dome; maybe, some? I guess we'll never really know!

Do You wear a helmet?

Showing your respect for passengers I see.

,...and no, I don't wear a helmet.

Hmmmm, did somebody just wake up in California with a sore head?

How about ,a guy died and all you assholes can say is how stupid he was for not wearing a helmet, how awesome you are for wearing one, and how many R44 accidents does this make now!

**** off sky gods!

Helmets are such a funny thing. Like many things we do it's all about perceived risk vs. real risk, ones' own personal limits for risk, and even about public perception and peer pressure.

For example, I, personally, would NEVER ride a motorcycle on the street without a full face helmet. NEVER. And I have proven to be religious about this, as I used to do the motorcycle work commute thing. And I don't have to, because I live where there are no helmet laws (thank goodness!) But I don't bother to put one on if I take a small dirtbike for a leisurely buzz up one of my trails in the woods. And I despise helmets for bicycling. I will freely admit to this bizarre behavior. From a safety standpoint I should wear an appropriate helmet for all of those activities. But I don't because I feel the risk/reward ratio tilts in the favor of no helmet for me except when on a street bike. The reward is, admittedly, likely to be considered a poor trade-off by many: a feeling of freedom, more physical comfort, better visibility, etc. And yet it tilts back the other way when riding a motorcycle on the street. I can't give you a purely logical argument for how and why I draw the line on helmets, only that I do, even being very well acquainted with the risks for all of these activities, as I was an EMT on a municipal ambulance service for eight years and saw all manner of non-helmet related injuries.

There is also public perception and peer pressure at play. Riding a sportbike and wearing a helmet is considered completely normal in the US. Riding a Harley and wearing a full face helmet not so much. Stupid? You bet. But people like to fit in. Luckily I'm a sportbike kind of guy!

Looking at helicopters, particularly small helicopters like the R44, I would certainly find the the use of a helmet uncomfortable. That alone stops me right there. I have made a risk/reward decision and it came down on the side of "no helmet". Maybe that's stupid, but it's my choice (until some nanny-state yahoo creates legislation--please, please don't do that!) And there would be potential perception issues that would cause some colleagues to find it pretentious and some passengers to worry, but those are lesser and less valid factors. But some people put a high value on "fitting in".

Finally we come to the money issue. Anyone coming up through the US civilian helicopter training world is well familiar with budding pilots who live hand to mouth, eat only Ramen noodles, wear ripped and dirty clothes, because nearly all of their money is being spent on helicopter instruction. These are the folks borrowing school headsets. They legitimately are not going to pony up for a $2500 helmet. Every dime goes to pay for helicopter and instructor time. This applies to many newly-minted CFIs, too.

So, since I can't fly a turbine, don't have a helmet and aren't wearing Nomex, I guess I should just stay in bed? OK, being a little snarky there. You can even get killed in bed ;) But, seriously, while it is perfectly reasonable to point out that we would all be safer with helmets, please recognize that it is not something that everyone wants to do, and please don't MAKE us do it if we don't want to unless we work for you and you demand it. That's fine, your playground, your rules. But otherwise...

All I can say is that my risk/reward line is drawn where I choose to draw it, even knowing and understanding all of the risks, and understanding that wearing a helmet is much safer (and I can afford one, a GOOD one, for every activity, too). It's a complex, personal decision that is not fully driven by logic.

Sounds like 22b

I am beginning to think VF requires an XXXXL Helmet....which would take a special order to make one that large.:rolleyes:

What is your life worth?

I'm totally with Steve.

At one point (years ago), pilots in the offshore industry were discouraged by aviation advisors from wearing helmets (and virtually none wore them). For the reason being, if the passengers saw pilots wearing a flight helmet, they'd want to wear one also. Meaning, one provided to them for free and not bought by them. Easier for pilots not to wear them than supply one of correct fit for each passenger. Anyway, that was the thought process.

I would but it has a bad short circuit between the ear phones!

Actually....sold it to someone that needed one....and never replaced it as at the next medical exam....failed it and lost my ability to fly.

Odd how things work out ain't it!

Another America and I sported some nice helmets while flying out of the Shetlands.....until we were told it just wasn't the done thing old chap!

So back we went to the cheapest and sorriest Peltor headsets available.

Any wonder why I lost my hearing.

I'm also with VF on this one. I bought a helmet when I started my training 30+ years ago, well before they were the norm, and have worn it throughout my career. The only time I haven't was when I flew for the oil industry and they wouldn't let me. Gave me the same BS excuse mentioned above, not from management but from the chief pilot.

The only negative comments I've ever received were from fellow pilots. Maybe it's because other pilots are jealous. If a tourist, VIP or passenger has ever commented, it was favourably. Maybe that's because I've had a cool paint job on it but no one has ever asked 'where is theirs?'.

I'm 6' 3" and have no problem wearing it in any helicopter I've ever flown, from R22's to Mi8's and I'm a VR pilot so need to stick my head out the door. Sure there is some technique required in some types but that isn't hard to learn.

When I flew offshore we were discouraged from wearing helmets because management believed it would make the passengers think flying in helicopters was dangerous. 😏

Of the five different offshore operations I've worked in and thus am familiar, for all of them:
Helmets: Optional
Survival suits: Optional
Life jackets: Required

From what I've heard from those who do offshore risk assessments, that is, everything associated with offshore from drilling to production to whatever else, getting too and from the offshore installation by helicopter is the riskiest aspect of the whole shooting match. Whether helmets are worn or not.

From my experience:

East Coast Canada

Helmets: Optional (in later years)
Survival suits: Required
Life jackets: Required

Beaufort Sea (Canadian Arctic)

​​​​​​Helmets: Optional (in later years)
Survival suits: Required
Life jackets: Required

India/Thailand

​​​​​​Helmets: Optional (in later years)
Survival suits: Optional (never saw anyone wear them)
Life jackets: Required