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R44 Down at Hayward Exc Airport Pilot killed Student injured
San Francisco Chronicle reporting that the pilot was killed and student seriously injured yesterday, the report also includes 10 year statistics for R44 crashes. The aircraft belonged to Pacific Helicopters and they were practicing take offs and landings when the accident happened.
https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/...php?psid=cNPlV |
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It is surprising, from such a mundane exercise, someone can end up dead.
If you compare that to the crashworthiness of a Cabri, the Robbie leaves much to be desired. |
Having been in a rollover incident many years ago in a R22, I can vouch for the fact that it is easy to smack your head during such an accident, something that could easily prove fatal and is not unique to robbies.
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The statistics in the article state that during the period from 2006-2016, R44's averaged 1.6 deadly accidents per 100,000 hours flown, a rate nearly 50% greater than any of the other 12 most common civilian models tracked by the FAA.
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Originally Posted by nomorehelosforme
(Post 10520014)
The statistics in the article state that during the period from 2006-2016, R44's averaged 1.6 deadly accidents per 100,000 hours flown, a rate nearly 50% greater than any of the other 12 most common civilian models tracked by the FAA.
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The stats were in the San Francisco Chronicle article with a link to an LA Times article showing a graph and more info, currently can't post a link, please post if you look it up.
The article is fairly extensive and would be of interest to many on here, one of the firsts comments would be that of the 12 aircraft compared the one missing is the Cabri?? |
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 10520013)
Having been in a rollover incident many years ago in a R22, I can vouch for the fact that it is easy to smack your head during such an accident, something that could easily prove fatal and is not unique to robbies.
There seems to be fairly significant damage to the instructor side of the cockpit, while the rest of the aircraft seems to be in fairly good condition, hence the comment. The Cabri as an example has had it's fair share of accidents in quote/unquote the landing phase and the cockpit remained in good condition. Different architecture and design philosophies but given the choice I know which one I would choose. From the stats quoted further up, it would seem the ideal training aircraft is a 206, confirms what everyone already knows. |
Stats...Shmats; wear a fvkin' Helmet & Your chance of survival is greatly increased...............nuff said!
Would You wear a Helmet riding a Motorbike? well a Helicopter is 100 times more dangerous! Don the BoneDome & live to tell the tale! Happy landings |
Originally Posted by nomorehelosforme
(Post 10520077)
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Originally Posted by aa777888
(Post 10520123)
I was able to fact-check the 42 fatals in 5 minutes, but I continue to fail to find any source of fleet or model operating hours data. Does anyone know where I can obtain that?
https://github.com/datadesk/helicopt...notebook.ipynb The FAA's General Aviation and Part 135 Activity Survey In response to a public records request made by The Times, the FAA provided a decade of its annual estimates about the activity of America's most common helicopter models. This data is not published online. The records provided to The Times were manually input into a spreadsheet and standardized using the same crosswalk as the NTSB data. The tidy-faa notebook filters the FAA data down to population counts and flight-hour estimates for models that have appeared in all ten years of survey data. Substituting Robinson's flight hours estimate In an email to The Times, Robinson Helicopter Company President Kurt Robinson said he believed the FAA survey underestimates the R44's flight hours. He wrote: Please note, the fatal accident rate of 1.61per 100k flight hours used to compare the R44 with other model helicopters from 2006 to 2016 does not reflect the actual usage rate of the R44 helicopter. Your estimated flight hours are based on the FAA General Aviation Survey, which is a voluntary survey and more representative of larger commercial operators, not the U.S. helicopter industry as a whole. Robinson’s own calculations, based on R44 production, overhaul records, and time-in-service reports, conservatively estimate total flight hours to be 3,260,787 hours, 38% more than the FAA estimate. |
The FAA data is from the General Aviation Survey and was only obtained via a FOIA request by the LA Times. https://github.com/datadesk/helicopt...notebook.ipynb The FAA's General Aviation and Part 135 Activity Survey: In response to a public records request made by The Times, the FAA provided a decade of its annual estimates about the activity of America's most common helicopter models. This data is not published online. In an email to The Times, Robinson Helicopter Company President Kurt Robinson said he believed the FAA survey underestimates the R44's flight hours. He wrote: Please note, the fatal accident rate of 1.61per 100k flight hours used to compare the R44 with other model helicopters from 2006 to 2016 does not reflect the actual usage rate of the R44 helicopter. Your estimated flight hours are based on the FAA General Aviation Survey, which is a voluntary survey and more representative of larger commercial operators, not the U.S. helicopter industry as a whole. Robinson’s own calculations, based on R44 production, overhaul records, and time-in-service reports, conservatively estimate total flight hours to be 3,260,787 hours, 38% more than the FAA estimate. That still puts the R44 at the top of the list at 1.16/100K, but not so dramatically. |
Appears rotor system had low/no power through it... |
Originally Posted by aa777888
(Post 10520362)
Excellent link, SansAnhedral, thank you!
That still puts the R44 at the top of the list at 1.16/100K, but not so dramatically. |
Originally Posted by Vertical Freedom
(Post 10520117)
Stats...Shmats; wear a fvkin' Helmet & Your chance of survival is greatly increased...............nuff said!
Would You wear a Helmet riding a Motorbike? well a Helicopter is 100 times more dangerous! Don the BoneDome & live to tell the tale! Happy landings Now that there are fewer instances of post crash fires in R44s, we should take note of injuries suffered by survivors. Having worn a helmet in back seat on filming jobs in r44 news, there is not much headroom left. Front seats a little better. There are few light helicopters that have impact absorbing material around tops of doors. Are helmets for learner drivers and their instructors such an imposition? Mjb |
"They were practicing hovering, something that's unique to helicopters". I can see why this guy is a Manager.
https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....16b44d0f2a.png |
Originally Posted by mickjoebill
(Post 10520546)
This. Now that there are fewer instances of post crash fires in R44s, we should take note of injuries suffered by survivors. Having worn a helmet in back seat on filming jobs in r44 news, there is not much headroom left. Front seats a little better. There are few light helicopters that have impact absorbing material around tops of doors. Are helmets for learner drivers and their instructors such an imposition? Mjb Hey MJB......I wouldn't have thought so....I'd feel naked flying without a Helmet :ugh: Happy landings VF |
Originally Posted by Vertical Freedom
(Post 10520728)
Hey MJB......I wouldn't have thought so....I'd feel naked flying without a Helmet :ugh:
It's difficult for students in the private world to justify the costs on day one nor to necessarily understand the risks. Lowly paid instructors are also thinking twice about what it costs. In their wildest dreams I doubt anyone could expect this outcome from hover exercises. |
Live long enough to tell the tale; wear Your seat-belt & a helmet
Originally Posted by Bell_ringer
(Post 10520736)
Hey VF, flying in your environment I'm surprised you don't use two :}
It's difficult for students in the private world to justify the costs on day one nor to necessarily understand the risks. Lowly paid instructors are also thinking twice about what it costs. In their wildest dreams I doubt anyone could expect this outcome from hover exercises. Happy landings |
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