Look closer. The blades don't mount to the head do they, they mount to the tension links. The tension links got wiped out on impact with sea water, hence the blades are gone. The tension links are composite.

When you find the blades you'll find the bolts and the tension links still attached but broken.

Yeah, I don't recall if this was 4.8 or 5.6. Definitely had floats. Hard cover floats. First picture on this thread with it in N-reg shows floats. But the photos just above do not. The hard covers over the floats are very fragile and quite obvious. And I don't see them yet. Wouldn't make much of a difference probably but still something that the FAA may not be happy about.

As already stated above, under ICAO Annexe 13 the responsibility for investigating any civil aircraft accident lies with the country of occurrence (regardless of where the aircraft is registered or who was onboard it). As also said that country may delegate responsibility to another agency - it is common for smaller countries to have agreements with larger countries.

Investigators from other nations are usually invited to send "Accredited Representatives" to advise and participate in the investigation. These countries would normally include: The state of registration; the state of airframe manufacturer, the state of engine manufacturer and; states with large representations in the passenger manifest. Any information required from organisations within these countries (eg the manufacturer) is supposed to be requested through the accredited representative of the investigation agency (although in practice this is often rubber stamped at the beginning of the investigation and direct contact between the lead investigator and the manufacturer takes place).

However, the state of occurrence retains primacy unless it devolves authority.

So to the above comment - an N reg crash in the UK would not be investigated by the NTSB - It would be investigated by UK AAIB, who would (depending on severity and necessity) invite NTSB to observe / contribute as necessary.

Hope that's helpful
OH

Cannot the 139 Autopilot system do a takeoff from the hover, climb out, then level at a predetermined altititude....with just a couple of "button" pushes?

Is that not being taught to the Pilots in training?

His Attorney is now being quoted "A mechanical issue may have caused the helicopter crash that killed seven people...according to an attorney for one of the victims. The evidence points to catastrophic mechanical failure, probably having to do with the tail,” Brian Glasser told MetroNews’ Hoppy Kercheval.

I'm yet to see a photo of the tail boom, tail rotor or main rotor blades. You just don't see them on any of the barge photos.

I disagree with "blame" being assessed.

Topics have cropped up and the discussion has been far more about those than criticizing the two Pilots.

The comments in general have been very supportive of the pilots as they seem to be very well regarded by those that know them.

Many times posts have been made clearly stating it is hoped a mechanical failure of some kind caused the crash....which could happen to any of us.

Simple truth is....it could have been any of us as we are all human....and thus are subject to make mistakes.

The investigation is just beginning and no one at this point that is in the know....has gone on record.

I put zero credence in some Lawyer's comments at this point and even then one has to consider what bias said Lawyer brings to the microphone when he speaks.

Why would the FAA be unhappy?

The FAR's are not exactly written by scholars for sure.

First thing you have to do is figure out which FAR's apply to the Operation.

If it is a part 91, non-air tour operation, the Rules go awfully vague about floats.

The question becomes who owns the aircraft, is it a lease, charter, privately owned and operated, used in an Air Taxi operation when not being used by the owner, etc.....

When you get all that figured out then you can begin to sort out which rule applies.

I am sure the insurance company will have an interest in all of this.

Keep in mind the FAR's are "Airplane" centric and evolve rather than being written anew thus be careful to remember it must state "aircraft", "helicopter" or "rotorcraft" to apply uniquely to helicopters.

When it specifies "airplane" than it applies only to airplanes.

Commonsense tells one that floats, personal flotation devices, life rafts, and emergency beacon(s) would be reasonable for flights to/from the Islands.....but would they be "required" is altogether different issue.

Previous AW139 tail boom separation
 

Re a previous AW139 which lost its tail boom in Qatar while on the ground. Something to look at when the tail boom photo's surface.
Photo link of previous incident.
https://www.avweb.com/news/tail-boom...arationGallery

Previous PPrune thread.
https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/38...ng-doh-16.html

Common sense, yes, but floats probably not mandated. When a helicopter is operating beyond autorotational distance from land, all occupants should be wearing a life jacket, and not just have a life jacket within reach. Having 2 engines shouldn't have any bearing on this aspect. Not that wearing life jackets would have affected the outcome in this instance. Nor floats fitted for that matter.

Not if it had phase 4 software, which I think I read earlier.

Someone suggested the photo taken of the aircraft pre-crash....and posted here raised a couple of questions about the Mark Tail Rotor blades installed on the aircraft (in the photo).

The comment mentioned "Two Ring" versus "Three Ring" which is meaningless to me but perhaps some of you 139 guys can discuss that for us.

You obviously dont know much about Chris Cline or his ops otherwise you would know he has a whole aviation department that consists of Embraer business jet, AW139, just took delivery of a new H130T2 and also I think has the Koala. So just hiring a company is totally off the mark in this case.

Grand Cay Island near Abaco Island - airspace/radar
 

Looking at the area where the accident happened (Grand Cay Island), is there any primary radar covering the area??
Have there been any reports of drug scud running without lights? I wonder if the divers find the wreckage of another aircraft nearby?
Eye witness comments:
"It “didn’t get very high,” Mathien McIntosh, who worked for Cline, told the Guardian newspaper of Nassau in the Bahamas.
“It went up and in about five it just ‘boop.’ The light just disappeared and it was a loud crash. It was a loud bang in the water.”
https://nypost.com/2019/07/06/witnes...from-wreckage/

Map of the area.
https://media.nbcboston.com/images/6...Cay-Island.jpg
Its not that from Florida. https://scubadivingresource.com/wp-c...amas-map-2.jpg

Looking at the maps, it reminded me that this is the same area where the Flight 19 Avenger crews, and the rescue PBM Mariner a/c went missing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flight_19

I think, after the tail rotor fell off the Sky Shuttle helicopter in Hong Kong the design was changed to prevent whatever caused it from happening again. Although, I don't think they ever found the tail rotor that fell off. It just disappeared.

I was surprised early on when I read the accident AW139 was bought used. Usually the rich guys order exactly what helicopter and factory fitted options they want, bought new and delivered directly from the factory.

Up to two years to work out what happened, seriously?

You'd think once the recorders were analyzed in the next few weeks they'd have a pretty good idea of what happened.

https://nypost.com/2019/07/09/invest...ay-take-years/

AW139
 

Chris was a true gentleman. I was one of 3 Captains who flew his Challenger 850 in 2017/18 .One day in CRW he walked on the airplane after coming off his Embraer 175 acting like he owned it; which he did. Just asked who was who and introduced himself said hello and went his own way. No drama just a really fine fellow. If he bought a used helicopter it was because it was what he needed not that it was cheap. From what I heard as a fixed wing pilot his crew on the rotor side were all very professional and very experienced. When we flew the CH850 we always had 40000 hours plus and close to 50 years of experience in the front seats I doubt he was cheaping out on the rotor side.
Just my comments. Sad to see the loss of all those folks.

This thread has more than the usual amount of post-crash criticism, but this is ridiculous.

Those young women were all 21 or older. Did they have fully developed decision making ability? Nope. But they were adults, and it's silly to state Cline should have been following them around supervising their behavior.

Your wealth envy is showing.

You're not right. There is tons of IMC here in Florida. We fly deep fog west coast, heavy thunderstorms during months from May-November the whole state and then there's the over open sea night flying that is very common here. We all do it regularly. But, as I mentioned previously, with a moon-less night, transitioning from over land to over water is the deepest IMC you will ever fly. Tragedy happens down here all the time on moon-less nights even with the most experienced pilots. It was either the direct cause or contributed greatly. July 2 was the new moon. This accident happened July 3, not much difference in conditions. I flew that night, July 3rd and it was deep IMC over water.

Six of those seven souls have been repatriated back to the United States. Reports suggest investigators are still accounting for all the aircraft parts.

https://ewnews.com/bodies-of-six-hel...ck-to-us-today

Mike 33 No wealth envy just parenting! My youngest son is 21 and a rugby player at university - he can decide how much he drinks but we will always caution him about excess with alcohol, especially with spirits. I have seen spring break in Florida and kids go crazy, often because they are not used to drinking much at university while they are studying - then they are let off the leash. Ask the local hospitals how many alcohol related admissions they have during that period.

I'm not saying he has to follow them around but he should at least be aware what they are drinking - he was also responsible for the other girls whose parents would assume they were in a safe environment. You said they don't have fully developed decision making ability - which is further impaired by booze - it's just responsible parenting.

Fair enough. I overreacted.

Completely disagree. They are all adults so fully capable of making their own decisions. The idea that he should be aware what they are drinking at 2am is ludicrous! How would he be unless he is awake and sneaking around checking up on them? Of course they are young adults and likely to over drink.. but you never did too? It is how we all learn.

Also dislike how you imply it is his responsibility that the other girls weren't in a "safe environment" Jees the amout of times me and my friends stumbled back into whoever's house at 4am completely wasted with no idea where anyone else was. Here you have a billionaire decide at 2am to dedicate a highly advanced helicoptor, from what sounds so far like a professional setup, with 2 instrument rated pilots solely to fly them to a hospital and to go with them too... How much more could he do?

Probably more related to the alcohol drinking age laws

Superterminal - I am guessing you have never had to deal with someone with alcohol poisoning or you might not be so cavalier with your attitude - if you have other people in your house, you are responsible for them whether you like it or not.

There is a very big difference between being drunk and being incapable due to alcohol poisoning - one can be fun but the other is easily avoided.

The problem is many people underestimate the effect of spirits and how your blood alcohol level can continue to rise to dangerous levels for a long while after you have stopped throwing it down your neck.

Some thread drift here - didn't mean my throwaway line about spring break to cause such offence.

212 man - good point.

Tail Boom
 

Looking into the Qatar A139 boom failure on the ground - would this aircraft (being a 2008 model) have still had the old/original composite nomex honeycomb boom vs. the new aluminium boom?

Not that it has any implication whatever on this thread, but the aircraft was painted in the London Air Service colors, they are a VIP outfit in Vancouver, Canada. Can be why he bought that particular machine.

Regards
H.

No I've never had to deal with alcohol poisoning but that's irrelevant to my point. My point was in relation to you implying that it's his fault or he was in any way responsible for the others, when he had basically done everything money (and a lot of money) could do to get them to a hospital.

And FYI having lost 8 friends all 20 - 30 years old in the last 10 years to the various sports and hobbies I do I am the least "cavalier" person about.

Anyway irrelevant thread drift like you say.

Superterminal - consider the logic - supervise the drinking and keep it to non-excessive levels = no alcohol poisoning (if indeed that was the reason for the flight) = no 2 am sortie in a rush = no accident (whatever the cause) = seven lives saved just for the want of a little control.

If you believe three 21 year-old highschool/university girls from a country where they can't drink until 21 should be allowed unfettered access to booze, then maybe think about it a bit more before you become a parent of teenagers.

Crab.....please.....can we stick to relevant issues here.

I have been called out in rat **** weather in the dark to deliver newspapers and a copying machine to a North Sea Oil Rig.....it doesn't't matter why you get dispatched if the flight falls within the Law, Rules, Regulations, SOP's, etc.

You get called....you check weather, notams, pre-flight, and go carry out your flight.

In the USA...we can file a flight plan in the air or by telephone....even those cellular or satellite kinds of talking bones.

US Customs needs a one hour notification at AOE airports.

The Bahamas may have a requirement for IFR clearances at night....but we do have to remember it is the Bahamas and not the UK.

Can we stick to the aviation part of this tragedy and not wander off down the rabbit hole you seem focused upon now?

Sasless - i think you'll find that I didn't start this rabbit-hole journey.

The aviation element here is that without the need for the flight, the accident wouldn't have happened so it is hardly unrelated.

Your statement about being called out in crap weather to deliver newspapers is far less relevant to this thread than any of my comments.

What is most depressing about this is the fact despite all the technology, the regulation and the smart men in the room it seems relatively easy for very many experienced hands to believe it is entirely credible for a 10 buck helicopter to be drilled by 2 professional pilots just after take off and then the view explained by flakey process that many seem comfortable expressing. That doesn't seem cool even if it is a reality.