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-   -   Massive cruise ship evacuation off Norway March 2019 (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/619750-massive-cruise-ship-evacuation-off-norway-march-2019-a.html)

ODEN 23rd Mar 2019 20:05

Massive cruise ship evacuation off Norway March 2019
 

ShyTorque 23rd Mar 2019 20:36

Good luck to all involved. I understand the ship has been at least turned into the waves, which will hopefully reduce the rolling motion somewhat and make rescue hoist work less hazardous.

atakacs 23rd Mar 2019 20:37

I wonder about the risk assessment of this one...
Hundreds of helicopter rotations in bad conditions vs waiting for better weather on the boat. Not convinced this is such a great idea.
Anyone closer to the action with specifics?

Fareastdriver 23rd Mar 2019 20:51

They obviously don't have North Sea winds and waves on Swiss lakes.

skadi 23rd Mar 2019 20:52


Originally Posted by atakacs (Post 10427892)
I wonder about the risk assessment of this one...
Hundreds of helicopter rotations in bad conditions vs waiting for better weather on the boat. Not convinced this is such a great idea.
Anyone closer to the action with specifics?

...or waiting for breakage of the anchor chain? The rocky coast is not far away! Evacuation is the only way!

skadi

treadigraph 23rd Mar 2019 20:58

A freighter with 9 aboard also in trouble nearby.

BBC report...

sycamore 23rd Mar 2019 21:07

It is on `flightradar24,at least 4 helos ,and 2 locations.

Thomas coupling 23rd Mar 2019 23:14

1200 pax.
4 helos.
3 pax per winch.
1 winch per 20 mins.
36 pax/hr
33hours ????

G0ULI 23rd Mar 2019 23:41


Originally Posted by Thomas coupling (Post 10427973)
1200 pax.
4 helos.
3 pax per winch.
1 winch per 20 mins.
36 pax/hr
33hours ????

Why not use the helipad?

obgraham 24th Mar 2019 00:00

Awfully long time to evacuate was my reaction also.

Hopefully the winds will die down, and the seas calm enough to allow the tenders to be put out and finish the job.

Having cruised with this line, I'm sure the crew will handle it all very professionally. Lots of us old geezers aboard -- we need gentle handling!

megan 24th Mar 2019 02:37


Why not use the helipad?
Because it doesn't have one, at least not on the deck plans available.

jimjim1 24th Mar 2019 03:15

Seems to be making way.

4 knots against the wind. Wind is SW 25-35kn

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....50f195502a.png

megan 24th Mar 2019 03:45

Reports say it has one of its four engines serviceable, though that was before they anchored. Perhaps they managed to get another on line.

rog747 24th Mar 2019 07:33

The view from the inside was very unpleasant - ceiling panels falling down on pax -and sofa chairs and tables flyingrolling across the floor - at least the grand piano was fixed.

Not nice for the folk on the ship - shallow water, nasty rough seas and high winds - at one point the ship was only a few hundred metres drifting without power off shore.
Lucky escape for now.
There is a H pad right on the bow...not sure if they are using this or on the upper aft decks...not much outdoor space on this ship for a chopper to safely hover over.

She is being shadowed or towed now by the Normand Ranger and the Ocean response large tug/supply vessels

Heliice 24th Mar 2019 07:33

15 hours into the evacuation and about 1/4 of the people onboard have been brought to land. My thought has always been that if there is a "real" emergency, like the ship taking in water or having run ashore that a helicopter evacuation of all passengers/crew is pretty much impossible in a reasonable timeframe . Imagine if this was 100Nm+ out at sea or if jet fuel was not available close by . . .

rog747 24th Mar 2019 08:02


Originally Posted by Heliice (Post 10428146)
15 hours into the evacuation and about 1/4 of the people onboard have been brought to land. My thought has always been that if there is a "real" emergency, like the ship taking in water or having run ashore that a helicopter evacuation of all passengers/crew is pretty much impossible in a reasonable timeframe . Imagine if this was 100Nm+ out at sea or if jet fuel was not available close by . . .

If she was way out in open sea and drifting she does not run the risk of running aground as was the close call yesterday but would be a rough ride in high seas without any power.

There have been in recent years quite a few liners losing all power (Queen Mary 2 being one of them on more than one occasion) but thankfully most had power restored ASAP.

The Greek liner Oceanos was way off shore in South Africa taking on water sinking in huge seas and most pax were taken off by Heli's

rog747 24th Mar 2019 08:07

Latest is over 400 taken off - has some power and is trying to make a port today if weather allows

Heliice 24th Mar 2019 08:22

rog747

Yes I understand that the threat would not be as immediate if this ship was further away from the shoreline. What I was thinking about was if a ship would need to to be evacuated in a threatening emergency like a fire or if the ship was going down . . .
I know my thoughts are a bit off topic, but this real life example just show that at an evacuation of this scale just takes a long time.

The H deck up front is probably only for hoisting and not for landing a S92 or a 332. Anyway there it is probably far safe hoisting the pax than landing on the ship in 8m high waves.

Evil Twin 24th Mar 2019 08:36


Originally Posted by Thomas coupling (Post 10427973)
1200 pax.
4 helos.
3 pax per winch.
1 winch per 20 mins.
36 pax/hr
33hours ????


You'd think after the first few laps that more than 3 per hour would be possible, though I am only speculating as the conditions look pretty challenging. I'd say after moving offshore and perhaps being able to point the ship into the waves the winch location could possibly be a tad more stable.. Well done to the crews involved, a big day out

atakacs 24th Mar 2019 08:47

Seems that they now have 3 out of 4 engines online and that they will manage to port under their own.

Still wondering about the wisdom of so many rotorcraft rotations in such conditions, especially as they seem ongoing despite the ship being under control.

Heliice 24th Mar 2019 08:58

According to the representatives from the local authorities the evacuation is still ongoing due to the Viking Sky´s Captains wish. This was what they said in this mornings press conference.

helicrazi 24th Mar 2019 09:02

We have procedures for such a scenario, 4 aircraft and poor weather isn't a problem

Heliice 24th Mar 2019 09:06

Latest news is that they have stopped the evacuation job after having evacuated 460 people in roughly 19 hours.

heli1 24th Mar 2019 10:22

So am I the only one to find this thread filled by Google sponsored inappropriate adverts from cruise line companies?!

HeliComparator 24th Mar 2019 10:58


Originally Posted by heli1 (Post 10428248)
So am I the only one to find this thread filled by Google sponsored inappropriate adverts from cruise line companies?!

no, you are not the only one. The irony is amusing however!

Fareastdriver 24th Mar 2019 11:02

You cannot just plonk a SAR helicopter on a gash piece of deck to pick up passengers. Not only is the pitch and roll to be taken in account but the deck strength as well. Not a lot of decks are stressed to 9+ tonnes.

CargoOne 24th Mar 2019 11:16


Originally Posted by Heliice (Post 10428170)
What I was thinking about was if a ship would need to to be evacuated in a threatening emergency like a fire or if the ship was going down . . .
I know my thoughts are a bit off topic, but this real life example just show that at an evacuation of this scale just takes a long time.

Helicopter evacuation has never been considered to be the primary way of evacuation from the ships, let alone cruise ships. Actually it is not considered at all, helipads are there for VIP guests, medivac and sometimes tech support in. Ship evacuation is designed and certified by means of rafts and boats.

BluSdUp 24th Mar 2019 11:28

Close call!
 
I am not sure what redundancy is required on a ship like this going into Norske Havet in the winter like this ,but we are not talking the pleasant Caribbean her.
Every week there is a storm on this 2500 km long coastline, and filling a ship with 1100 pax at 75 years plus is not smart unless You are sure the ship is in shape!!
Lets compare this with a Jumbo with all engine flame out! In slow motion!

Atakacs
They almost hit the coast line
And if that had happened we would for sure have looked at a 50% casualty rate!!
You obviously have no clue whatsoever what You are talking about, sorry to say!

The wind are now 20 m/s and 30m/s in 6 hrs from ca 240Deg then down to 5 and at 02:00 from 030deg at 30m/s.
Waves slowly down from 10 meters and now average 5meter.
473 pax evacuated a dusin critically injured.

Job well done from my SeaKing heroes at the 330 Squadron!
Mission impossible?
You always try!
Always.

Regards
Cpt B

SASless 24th Mar 2019 12:15

I see this as being a amazing response with no notice during very challenging weather conditions in a remote area.

Well Done!

As noted.....the old Sea King manned by excellent crews rose to the occasion and did what makes Helicopters and those who fly them stand out in aviation.

We go to the aid and assistance of others when needed.

Hand Salute to all who participated in this.....you done good!:ok:

atakacs 24th Mar 2019 12:28


473 pax evacuated a dusin critically injured.
What was the cause of the injuries ?

I fully understand that this is a region with very demanding weather conditions and that this ship had probably no business to be there given the conditions.

I also understand that ordering a thousand of SAR helicopters rotations in those conditions involves a lot a risk, despite the amazing quality of the people manning those aircrafts. Irrespective of not knowing what I am speaking of I would be interested to know how the assessment was made. In any case happy to see a positive outcome.

John Eacott 24th Mar 2019 12:40


Originally Posted by atakacs (Post 10428356)
What was the cause of the injuries ?

I fully understand that this is a region with very demanding weather conditions and that this ship had probably no business to be there given the conditions.

I also understand that ordering a thousand of SAR helicopters rotations in those conditions involves a lot a risk, despite the amazing quality of the people manning those aircrafts. Despite not knowing what I am speaking of I would be interested to know how the assessment was made. In any case happy to see a positive outcome.

I’d expect the injuries to result from the conditions on board, with loose articles moving around with enough force to break limbs, etc.

~900 pax at 15 per load (S92 or Sea King) would be about 60 loads, certainly nothing like a thousand. About 45-60 minutes per sortie when winching and offloading ashore, so three helicopters would need about 15-20 hours flying each including refuels, crew changes, etc. Maybe you could dial down the concern and accept that such decisions are made by professionals who have a fair degree of competence :ok:

Torcher 24th Mar 2019 13:12

Not to forget
 
The operation included a total of five helicopters.

2 Sea Kings, plus 3 SAR Helicopters operated by CHC. Pumas and S-92

In addition to the Cruise ship, a nearby costal freighter with 9 POB, was evacuated by helicopters

Very well done by all crews, and support personnel

nonsense 24th Mar 2019 14:31


Originally Posted by heli1 (Post 10428248)
So am I the only one to find this thread filled by Google sponsored inappropriate adverts from cruise line companies?!

I don't see any ads at all; I tend to forget them when I don't see them. Look into getting an ad blocker?

SASless 24th Mar 2019 16:24

An AP article.....


https://apnews.com/a45c3b5a085a402e9242f5152dc77474

Thomas coupling 24th Mar 2019 16:45

I know nothing about large cruise ship evacuation procedures but would love to have a peek!
I presume (assume) the real biggies that carry 3 or even 5k pax - stick to relatively safe routes which are within reasonable reach of other ships, because as near as damn it, there is no way jose, that any fleet of helos would be involved in a mass evacuation on these 'mothers'!
It would take massive logistics to get there, rescue, remain on task, refuel and redeploy with these numbers.

Secondly, does anyone have any knowledge of how security conscious these giants and their precious cargo's are?
An IED in the right place below the water line would certainly be on a par with 9/11, I would guess (casualty wise).

SASless 24th Mar 2019 17:24

TC....think back a few years.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MTS_Oceanos

GrayHorizonsHeli 24th Mar 2019 17:24

Theres one good thing about the need to evacuate such a large ship...there generally is alot of time available. They don't sink like a brick.

Other than taking on water, my biggest fear would be a fire. Panic sets in faster with a fire.

Do the life boats have enough capacity these days for all the passengers? Or do the crew of the ship cull out the weak and unstable, so the strong can survive??
In this case, were they actively using/loading the lifeboats at the time the helicopters were plucking people from the deck?

albatross 24th Mar 2019 17:58


Originally Posted by GrayHorizonsHeli (Post 10428552)
Theres one good thing about the need to evacuate such a large ship...there generally is alot of time available. They don't sink like a brick.

Other than taking on water, my biggest fear would be a fire. Panic sets in faster with a fire.

Do the life boats have enough capacity these days for all the passengers? Or do the crew of the ship cull out the weak and unstable, so the strong can survive??
In this case, were they actively using/loading the lifeboats at the time the helicopters were plucking people from the deck?

I do believe that since the Titanic disaster there must, by law, be sufficient life boat capacity to accommodate all aboard.
The problems start when the sea conditions, ship list, fire, crew training and other factors make loading, launching, ect. problematic.

Praet 24th Mar 2019 18:17


Originally Posted by GrayHorizonsHeli (Post 10428552)
Do the life boats have enough capacity these days for all the passengers? Or do the crew of the ship cull out the weak and unstable, so the strong can survive??
In this case, were they actively using/loading the lifeboats at the time the helicopters were plucking people from the deck?

As per SOLAS:

Passenger vessels on long international voyages must carry partially or fully enclosed lifeboats for at least 50% of capacity on each side and rigid or inflatable life rafts for at least 25% of capacity, for a total of life-saving appliances for at least 125% of capacity.
Passenger vessels on short international voyages must carry partially or fully enclosed lifeboatds for at least 30% of capacity and inflatable or rigid liferafts for at least 70% of capacity, plus inflatable or rigid lifeboats for at least 25% of capacity, for a total of life-saving appliances for at least 125% of capacity.
(https://www.rina.org.uk/lifeboats.html)


"Long international voyage" means an international voyage which is not a short international voyage;

"Short international voyage" means an international voyage:
a.) in the course of which a ship is not more than 200 miles from a port or place in which the passengers and crew could be placed in safety, and
b.) which does not exceed 600 miles in distance between the last port of call in the country in which this voyage begins and the final port of destination,
but for the purposes of this definition, no account shall be taken of any deviation by a ship from the intended voyage due solely to the stress of weather or any other circumstances that neither the master nor the owner nor the charterer (if any) of the ship could have prevented or forestalled.
Solas Chapter V - Annex 1 - Categories of Waters and Classes of Ships

[email protected] 24th Mar 2019 18:28

The emergency evacuation of a cruise liner has been a concern for many years because of the numbers involved - as we have seen, even with 5 helicopters it takes a long while. We had a similar situation off Holyhead many years ago using the 2 SAR Wessex from 22 Sqn plus the SARTU fleet.

Deconfliction between the air assets is easy, just use a common frequency and have an on-scene commander directing where to winch from - fortunately a big deck like a cruise liner offers several simultaneous winching positions - as long as the ship's crew know what they are doing when corralling the pax into the right places.

As someone has already mentioned, the real problems occur when you don't have 5 or 6 winch-equipped helicopters immediately available and fuel is not readily available.

We used to be concerned down in the Falklands when the big cruise liners appeared, doubling the population of the Islands as each ship arrived - one SAR helo with the possibility of a second plus some old S-61s without winches fitted.......Not sure it is that much better there now with a 189 replacing the Sea King and the same older S-61s.


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