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-   -   22 Bell Kiowa 206B-1 for sale Australia (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/618289-22-bell-kiowa-206b-1-sale-australia.html)

as350nut 12th Feb 2019 04:46

22 Bell Kiowa 206B-1 for sale Australia
 
Australian Army has 22 Bell kiowa 206B-1 for auction, the aircraft do not come with registration nor do they have a certificate of airworthiness, so the question is; Is there any chance that any of them could receive registration as a Warbird.
Is it possible they could be used privately with the help of Australian Warbird Association which CASA recognizes, and is there any difference between one of these flying about than say any of the fixed wing military aircraft that are out there.

gulliBell 12th Feb 2019 05:13

Anybody have a wild guess how much a flyable one with hours on it might sell for at auction? My guess, it would have to be less than AU$100K.

Warbirds rules can be found here:

krypton_john 12th Feb 2019 18:59

Further info here:

https://www.controller.com/listings/...1976-bell-206b

and here

https://www.graysonline.com/promotions/military

There's also going to be Westland Scout, Pilatus FW trainers, truckloads of parts, engines etc. Fill your boots.

as350nut 12th Feb 2019 21:18

Note the interest from NZ : Probably make a cheap machine for up in the hills chasing a red or thar, then again only 2 blades

krypton_john 12th Feb 2019 23:31

Indeed. And NZ CAA possibly more permissive than most in allowing use of such ex mil machines too.

krypton_john 12th Feb 2019 23:50

OH-58A in other words? From the pictures they have a couple of extras - electronic AI and HSI...

rjtjrt 12th Feb 2019 23:51

Note the terms are bids attract a buyers premium, then pay GST on total.
So add 17.5% to any winning bid.

wrench1 13th Feb 2019 13:13


Originally Posted by krypton_john (Post 10388254)
OH-58A in other words?

Close. But a 58A is actually a 206A-1. If I recall the B-1s were strictly designated for Australian ops with some of the aircraft assembled there. If these are true B-1s then they aren't even eligible to get a AWC in the States like a 58A can. Hopefully nobody will decide to buy them and sell those parts on a global scale. Could end up causing issues like the ex-military parts did on the Aloutte/Lama.

megan 14th Feb 2019 00:03

The Australian aircraft are 206B-1's. They differ from the OH-58A which has a smaller diameter rotor, different gear box and rotor spins at a different RPM. The first 12 Australian aircraft were built in the US, I and another Navy pilot took delivery of the first Australian built airframe, number 13. I'd assume our aircraft components are identical to one of the civil models (206B?), unlike the 58A. Loved the cockpit instrumentation, which a civil pilot could but drool over.

Arriving home on the delivery flight.


https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....11c549467b.jpg

as350nut 14th Feb 2019 04:11

not good news
 
I have done some checking looks like no manuals to work with and possibly incomplete records 206B-1 not type cert compatible with other 206's. The avionics would need expensive certification, some of the part numbers don't even exist in the civilian Bell world. The engine is straight C20, really only looking at Warbird status but with Index 3 so no flight over population or adventure flights. With the interest that's seems to be there at the moment probably looking at 200-300k buy price and need to spend 200k to get it going so doesn't make much sense when there are so many Jetrangers in normal cat available, esp at the age these are at.

gulliBell 14th Feb 2019 11:15


Originally Posted by as350nut (Post 10389408)
...at the moment probably looking at 200-300k buy price...

Seriously? The Esso S76's sold for less than that, and they were mostly in good nick with a full set of meticulous documentation. I'd be surprised if those ex-Army Kiowas go for any more than $100K each.


gulliBell 14th Feb 2019 11:20


Originally Posted by krypton_john (Post 10388254)
...From the pictures they have a couple of extras - electronic AI and HSI...

When I last flew one they had none of that fancy stuff on the panel...no GPS (we used things called maps), no padded seats, and bog standard original issue instrumentation except for the NVG cockpit lighting which was just starting to be rolled out.

as350nut 15th Feb 2019 01:17

GulliBell
Well lets wait and see, I am with you 100k max but I am repeating what I was told from someone with a lot more knowledge than me on the situation

Duck Pilot 15th Feb 2019 10:27

Probably better off being in museums by the looks of it. Iím sure there would be more than 22 museums throughout Australia that would happily take them and not forgetting the RSL Clubs.

SuperF 18th Feb 2019 09:12

uummmmm,

don't like to burst your bubble krypton john, but NZCAA absolutely hate anything restricted/experimental/warbirds category or ex-military. looking at the information available, i would think about $100k for the whole lot of those things. you can get a really cheap JR for $250k and then when you are sick of it sell it world wide, why would you spend more then a few grand on something that is a throw away item??

krypton_john 18th Feb 2019 18:53

Yet there still are or have been Rotorways, Mosquitos, OH58s, AB206's with mixed parts, let alone Supermarine Spitfires, P51s, Gazelles etc flying in NZ

Agree totally on your point about the economics. They'd have to give these Aussie ones away.

helihub 18th Feb 2019 21:06


Is there any chance that any of them could receive registration as a Warbird.
On the basis that there are nearly 20 Kiowas (mainly ex Canadian military) on the Australian VH- register, I would say "yes" there is a chance. Example below

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....0d8730dcb1.jpg

megan 18th Feb 2019 23:41

The aircraft above is a OH-58A so the registration data base says. There was no civil equivalent to the 58A, which has a different gear box, rotor spins at different RPM, rotor shorter diameter, so can't see why the 206B-1 couldn't be put on the civil register.

https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/47...fferences.html

https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/60...fferences.html

wrench1 19th Feb 2019 14:00


Originally Posted by megan (Post 10394229)
so can't see why the 206B-1 couldn't be put on the civil register.

Most countries that operate under ICAO or are part of a Bi-Lateral Treaty use the aircraft's existing Type Certification from its "country of origin" as the basis for importation/registration/certification. The B-1 as no eligible serial numbers listed under the FAA Type Certificate (TCDS H2SW) which invalidates the TC for the B-1.

Unless the importing/certifying country has a specific process within their civil aviation regs to certify an aircraft without a valid TC, they would have to type certify the aircraft. In my limited experience within a dozen countries or so, I've never run across a CAA that permitted this on the civilian side. As an FYI: the 58 has eligible S/Ns under H2SW along with specific requirements to make the TC valid on 58s.


megan 19th Feb 2019 23:57

Thanks wrench, learnt something new, and I see the 58 does have a civil equivalent.

There must means around the TCDS. It states,

NOTE 15.Canadian Military Model COH-58A serial numbers 44001 and up are not eligible for Federal Aviation Administration type certification in any category.

NOTE 16.Military Model OH-58A surplused from other than an Armed Force of the United States is not eligible for Federal Aviation Administration type certification in any category.
The aircraft in the photo above is serial number 44023, which in my mind, sort of puts in the same category as the B-1. How did they manage then to get 44023 on the register? The operator (commercial) is listed as the manufacturer?????


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