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-   -   Wiltshire Air Ambulance more woes. (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/616883-wiltshire-air-ambulance-more-woes.html)

Dai Whirlybird 3rd Jan 2019 16:21

Wiltshire Air Ambulance more woes.
 
Heli-charter, the AOC holder and maintenance provider for Wiltshire Air Ambulance have ceased trading as of today.

This of course means that the AOC for Wiltshire Air Ambulance has disappeared and that they are now no longer able to operate until that's resolved. On top of that there has recently been ANOTHER very similar tail rotor incident on their Bell 429, G-WLTS. An additional issue now of course is that there are no engineers available to look into it!

Bell seem to be quite comfortable in denying that there's a problem with the 429's TR and the AAIB were not (but now, given a second occurence, might be) interested in looking into it.

The shortcomings at Heli-Charter have been visible for all to see over the latter part of last year - even from the sidelines it's clear that the executive management at WAA have been caught napping. A trawl through these pages reveals a less than favourable opinion of the WAA management and I guess the mess they're now in will serve to galvanise it.

Can't help but feel sorry for all those living through it.

Blyyddyn Newydd Dda!

Professor Bublinsky 3rd Jan 2019 16:49

I saw this coming months ago, so why didn't the CEO and the Aviation director of the Wiltshire Air Ambulance see it. Complacency!! Amateurs.

jayteeto 3rd Jan 2019 19:09

We looked at the 429 when they did the UK sales 'tour'. It looked like a great machine to operate. I don't know any details of the WAA hierarchy and have no links, but surely they could never have seen the TR problems coming??????
When they started up with Heli-Charter, many of us thought it was a gutsy move to go with a smaller company and it was widely commented on here on Pprune. But companies have to start thinking bigger somewhere/sometime? They took a punt and it didnt work, but they were not the first OR last to try that. Lets just hope that they dont lose too much money and move on successfully, fingers crossed

Hedski 3rd Jan 2019 20:00

They were warned and didn't listen. The CAA weren't happy about granting Heli Charter's AOC the required permissions, in fact withdrew it on occasion. A company who let everyone down running the major golf event at Sandwich, but the biggest crook in the house bailed months ago taking the Bell dealership with him. Sadly he's still sliming his way round in a 429/505 trying to blag it like he did on a PPL doing 'experience' flights for so many years.

Cabby 3rd Jan 2019 22:16


Originally Posted by Hedski (Post 10350978)
They were warned and didn't listen. The CAA weren't happy about granting Heli Charter's AOC the required permissions, in fact withdrew it on occasion. A company who let everyone down running the major golf event at Sandwich, but the biggest crook in the house bailed months ago taking the Bell dealership with him. Sadly he's still sliming his way round in a 429/505 trying to blag it like he did on a PPL doing 'experience' flights for so many years.

From memory the Wiltshire Air Ambulance charity signed a 10 year contract with Heli Charter in 2014. The last accounts at Companies House make interesting reading. Wonder who will pick up the pieces?

Nothing mentioned on Wiltshire Air Ambulance twitter page about the AOC or Heli Charter in the posts made today. https://twitter.com/WiltsAirAmbu
The website for Heli Charter appears to have been closed. Why did they lose their AOC?

The charities webpage reveals the "leadership team" which shows which director was responsible for dealing Heli Charter and Bell.
https://www.wiltshireairambulance.co.uk/meet-the-team/

Dai Whirlybird 4th Jan 2019 07:45


Originally Posted by Cabby (Post 10351124)
Wonder who will pick up the pieces?

WAA have already begun the process of writing their own AOC and a social media press report (quoting a WAA spokesperson) suggests that it's granting "is iminent". I'm also told that they have already appointed a new maintenance organisation.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how iminent the AOC is - and indeed who the accountable manager will be because I'd wager that the current Aviation Director didn't get too much sleep last night!

JulieAndrews 4th Jan 2019 09:28


Originally Posted by Dai Whirlybird (Post 10351380)
WAA have already begun the process of writing their own AOC and a social media press report (quoting a WAA spokesperson) suggests that it's granting "is iminent". I'm also told that they have already appointed a new maintenance organisation.

I guess we'll have to wait and see how iminent the AOC is - and indeed who the accountable manager will be because I'd wager that the current Aviation Director didn't get too much sleep last night!

Dai - was the bold font to display your disbelief or the atrocious spelling?
Let’s hope for better ‘attention to detail’ with their AOC editing.......

On a serious note - best wishes to the girls and guys at the “coalface” - here’s to a speedy and safe recovery.

Thomas coupling 4th Jan 2019 10:29

Difficult to believe there are still amateurs running enterprises like this after the air ambulance world has been operating for decades.
I thought the riff raff had been weeded out but it seems not.
I was going to say that the world of charities attracts a fair share of underqualified and unprofessional people anyway.............but then NPAS popped into my mind!

Hopefully the experts will now take charge and someone like Bond et al, will sort it out.

Good luck to the new owners, they are going to need it.

ShyTorque 4th Jan 2019 10:39

In view of no AOC, presumably Wiltshire has no dedicated air ambulance cover at the moment?

Cabby 4th Jan 2019 11:59


Originally Posted by ShyTorque (Post 10351534)
In view of no AOC, presumably Wiltshire has no dedicated air ambulance cover at the moment?

The answer is no. The 429 will be grounded as the a/c insurance etc will no longer be in place due to the Heli Charter AOC being withdrawn by the CAA. Unless they are piggybacking another operators AOC but other operators may need to tick a lot more boxes with the CAA looking at the operation.

There are people who will write the paperwork for a fee, but the CAA will be looking at who maintains and runs the operation.
The charity may need to look for a qualified accountable manager.
https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/...rtificate_(AOC) follow the initial link onto AOC.

More details. https://www.skybrary.aero/bookshelf/books/2129.pdf

206 jock 4th Jan 2019 12:48

Looks like it is grounded. For two reasons!

https://www.wiltshireairambulance.co...air-ambulance/

ShyTorque 4th Jan 2019 16:02

Cabby, Thanks for the input, I'm well aware of the rules regarding the acqusition of an AOC. :cool:

I was curious to know if there was any other air cover in the meantime.

Thomas coupling 4th Jan 2019 18:57

They have a drone with battenburg colours?

ShyTorque 4th Jan 2019 19:08


Originally Posted by Thomas coupling (Post 10351967)
They have a drone with battenburg colours?

That's OK then....

Cpt_Pugwash 4th Jan 2019 22:47


Originally Posted by ShyTorque (Post 10351834)
I was curious to know if there was any other air cover in the meantime.

In the past, the GWAA has provided cover, don't know if that will happen in the current situation.

This was taken locally, back on August 27 2015.

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/pprune....41111822a8.jpg

Aucky 5th Jan 2019 15:13

Between Great Western (Filton), TVAA (Benson), Dorset & Somerset (Henstridge) and Midlands (Strensham) most corners of their patch should remain relatively well covered by air until they find a solution. 3 of those attended a mutual aid job in Wiltshire’s patch simultaneously not long back when their aircraft was down...

Slimmy 5th Jan 2019 15:28

The ambulance service which covers Wiltshire (South Western Ambulance Service) has a HEMS desk dispatching all the aircraft. They are frequently sent across the counties depending upon availability and skill mix of crew - you need a doctor to deliver anaesthesia, for instance. I'm sure it'll be well covered both by the Wiltshire AA crew on a vehicle and others by air, predominantly GWAAC and DSAA.

lynx-effect 5th Jan 2019 16:20

I'm amazed by all the people that saw it coming. These are good people with good morals just having a blip. Who hasn't?

Chris Kebab 10th Jan 2019 12:02

https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry...-flying-again/

Cpt_Pugwash 10th Jan 2019 20:53

As Chris notes above, cover has been restored, although this report suggests the deal with SAS is an existing contingency arrangement rather than a new deal. Perhaps I'm reading too much into it, but it will be nice to see the 902 back in West Wilts.

Hedski 10th Jan 2019 21:48


Originally Posted by lynx-effect (Post 10352723)
I'm amazed by all the people that saw it coming. These are good people with good morals just having a blip. Who hasn't?

Sorry but you’re either part of the charity, naive or a member of the public hoping their donation has not been abused. HEMS charities are riddled with self serving, greedy and sometimes fraudulent activities by board members. Wasteage, back handers, dodgy deals abound. While the pilots are amongst the highest qualified but poorest paid in Europe, on and offshore. Third party providers continue to keep wages down as do directly employing charities using the old ‘poor us’ excuses whilst spending ever increasing amounts on ‘centres of excellence’ (they can’t all be) and larger less suitable aircraft increasingly unable to land in urban confined areas. And it’s this amazing bias in spending that needs to be investigated nationwide. Which board members have their fingers in places they shouldn’t. Have ‘anonymous’ donations been used to guarantee building contracts, this would be fraud surely. Is having an aoc controlled by a board member necessary when several existing aoc’s with appropriate approvals offered to provide their assistance both in the past and recently? The cloak of charity being abused. Of course nobody dare ask any questions. How could you, we’re saving lives here. Doesn’t mean you can break laws, on numerous levels. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

tigerfish 10th Jan 2019 23:34

Hedski,
You raise number of issues that do need to be examined !

TF

chopper2004 11th Jan 2019 04:44


Originally Posted by Hedski (Post 10357405)


Sorry but you’re either part of the charity, naive or a member of the public hoping their donation has not been abused. HEMS charities are riddled with self serving, greedy and sometimes fraudulent activities by board members. Wasteage, back handers, dodgy deals abound. While the pilots are amongst the highest qualified but poorest paid in Europe, on and offshore. Third party providers continue to keep wages down as do directly employing charities using the old ‘poor us’ excuses whilst spending ever increasing amounts on ‘centres of excellence’ (they can’t all be) and larger less suitable aircraft increasingly unable to land in urban confined areas. And it’s this amazing bias in spending that needs to be investigated nationwide. Which board members have their fingers in places they shouldn’t. Have ‘anonymous’ donations been used to guarantee building contracts, this would be fraud surely. Is having an aoc controlled by a board member necessary when several existing aoc’s with appropriate approvals offered to provide their assistance both in the past and recently? The cloak of charity being abused. Of course nobody dare ask any questions. How could you, we’re saving lives here. Doesn’t mean you can break laws, on numerous levels. Something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

Interesting ...it could be a lot lot worse it could be the US EMS model. Where it’s more driven by Health insurance - patients horizontally strapped (not needing air transportation) in ummm conditions we rather not fly in and subsequent (fatal) accidents.

The only rumbles / concerns we heard of or questioned is the Children’s AA or TheAA over recent years...as it’s been discussed here and even on BBc1 7 o clock One Show ( thousands spent on having Strictly Come Dancing judges teaching dancing to the staff of said charity outside Rugby one Xmas and one volunteer or member of public saying their methods of muscling in on fundraising could else to disaster).

cheers



chopper2004 11th Jan 2019 04:48


Originally Posted by Hedski (Post 10350978)
They were warned and didn't listen. The CAA weren't happy about granting Heli Charter's AOC the required permissions, in fact withdrew it on occasion. A company who let everyone down running the major golf event at Sandwich, but the biggest crook in the house bailed months ago taking the Bell dealership with him. Sadly he's still sliming his way round in a 429/505 trying to blag it like he did on a PPL doing 'experience' flights for so many years.

i thought the owner of HC was ill with cancer ( not terminally) hence why the Bell dealership went elsewhere. Btw the other individual you speak of is a member on here.

I’m not batting for Bell ( even though one has a soft heart for their legacy Uh-1/ 204/5/212/412/Yankee) but hope sincerely it’s not going to be the end of Bell 429 as HEMS in U.K...

cheers and Happy New Year.

DeltaNg 11th Jan 2019 09:55


While the pilots are amongst the highest qualified but poorest paid in Europe, on and offshore.
This is becoming increasingly apparent with the advent of Multi Pilot ops requiring ATPL for command AND IR AND NVIS experience AND P1 Multi time AND HEMS experience etc...

When the Offshore market recovers, prepare for a pilot exodus.

Hedski 11th Jan 2019 17:37

Just like the post re Specialists continual advertising on the 2019 jobs thread. They just don’t get it. But have been told.... yet refuse to pay anything like the going rate.

MightyGem 11th Jan 2019 20:23


Hedski,
You raise number of issues that do need to be examined !
And verified!

Do you have an axe to grind, Hedski.

Hedski 11th Jan 2019 22:29

NOPE Have never had anything to do with said establishment.

Professor Bublinsky 12th Jan 2019 17:35

I'll be sorry to see the Bell 429 go, it's a very capable aircraft. The 902 has seen its day it would of struggled in the temperature this last summer.

SARWannabe 13th Jan 2019 08:36


Originally Posted by Professor Bublinsky (Post 10358910)
I'll be sorry to see the Bell 429 go, it's a very capable aircraft. The 902 has seen its day it would of struggled in the temperature this last summer.

The 902 has proven itself an excellent safe & capable hems aircraft over the last decade or so, but the more space you provide the more kit/people they will add. It’s hard to go ‘back’ to a 902 once crews have got used to carrying an extra crew member and additional kit. The 429 is perhaps a marginal step up from a 207 engined 902 at best - it uses the same engines! It’s essentially a more expensive slightly larger 902. If you’re going to spend the extra money you may as well get a 145/169 and reap the real benefits of additional power and space.

Hedski 24th Jan 2019 08:37

And it just gets better.....

https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local...pounds-a-year/

So having spanked £5m on a facility clearly not worth £5m and insisted on having own aoc, hows that process going..., now those with their hands in the till see another avenue....?

Chris Kebab 9th Jul 2019 10:58

It's back!

https://www.wiltshireairambulance.co...ll-429-update/

Professor Bublinsky 9th Jul 2019 20:29

about time! no thanks to management.

Hughes500 10th Jul 2019 04:51

is the 902 not a better machine ?

Cpt_Pugwash 29th Sep 2019 12:04

The woes at the Wilts Air Ambulance made the front page of our local rag this week. Seems there are still problems with the AOC certification.

https://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/new...g-certificate/
https://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/new...air-ambulance/.
The comments make interesting reading too.

Dai Whirlybird 29th Sep 2019 13:09

Nothing surprises me anymore with this outfit. A press release back in January told us that the granting of their AOC was imminent and yet 10 months down the line it's still not happened. They trot out the same PR response everytime " We're continuing to respond with our RRV's"

I dread to think what their balance sheet is looking like, they've been funding 2 aircraft during the majority of that period and only delivering a very limited service. It'd be interesting to divde the charity's total costs with the number of incidents attended to provide a cost per incident figure - I shudder to think what that would be!!

We all know that the CAA would only resist or delay issuing an AOC if there were issues with the operation that still needed resolving - the CAA is a first class regulator and if they see fit not to issue an AOC there'll be a very good reason why.

Rocket2 29th Sep 2019 14:51

As a (small) supporter of this charity I feel the CAA & the charity should issue a statement stating why the AOC remains delayed, as stated (I am in the aviation business) there must be problems.

Dai Whirlybird 29th Sep 2019 17:13

I know it's a few months old, but this report, especially paragraph 4, if true doesn't cover the charity in glory. The Tail Rotor incident mentioned here is currently the subject of an AAIB investigation.

https://www.wiltshire999s.co.uk/wilt...five-weeks-on/

Professor Bublinsky 7th Oct 2019 12:34

I still question whether senior managers should be at their post. Please resign and go!!

Sumpor Stylee 7th Oct 2019 21:01

How when one senior manager is writing said AOC in a manner that makes him indispensable so he will never be able to be got rid of....


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