This has been bothering me also. I have not flown helicopters for years, and the old things that I used to flap around in did not have such luxuries as an auto pilot, in fact I thought it was the latest thing when one of them had electric cyclic trim.
But it has been posted by people that should know that the A/P would probably be engaged, at least in attitude mode. The way that thing spun around it is almost like it was being driven. Surely, such an experienced pilot would have had the collective down long before the spin developed to the extent shown on the video. Is it possible that this is related to switching the A/P to full authority, or whatever the change is called, as he started to transition?

The autopilot will only have max 10% authority.

As someone else suggested earlier, but now I can't find it, it looks to me like they possibly climbed vertically and backwards then attempted rotation - with a reasonable tailwind.
Had something let go at that power setting in essentially an OGE hover, the immediate 'snap rotations' would be more evident I would have thought. The rotations came on relatively slowly I thought - consistent with running out of T/R authority. Started spinning with no T/R authority - dumped the collective and never recovered.
Did we get an answer how a potentially heavy AW169 behaves in a high power OGE downwind hover?

I don't think it's an object at all, looks to be light reflection/refraction on the lens as the camera tracks up into the stadium lights...?

Ok, assuming that it is not faulty.

It's an insect lit by the stadium lights. Another at 1:02. You see them all the time on CCTV. Really annoying when they trigger motion sensors to start recording... Already discussed...

Playing that video at quarter speed, I respectfully disagree. The insects on my CCTV don't behave in that manner and there is always more of them. That 'particle' initially appears suddenly at 46.2s at the back of the aircraft, disappears for less than 100th of a second then appears again moving at speed to the left and down. Looking at what is happening to the aircraft and admittedly drawing a speculative conclusion of where the problem might lie, one has to question the odds of a lone insect appearing to fly across the screen emanating from that position at that exact time?

I assume they scoured the pitch for any parts that might have fallen?

Have it your way.
Insects on my night time CCTV ALWAYS act like that.
I just stepped through the frames, blobs of light at 0.52, 0.53, 0.57, 1.02, 1.05, 1.06
Some of them flitting in all directions...

Please understand, I mean no disrespect to anyone's views, it's just an observation.

Anti-collision light
 

In the YouTube video the anti-collision light is clearly visible as are it's reflections under the main rotors. As control is lost the light seems to extinguish. Is it just me and my phone?

Here is a cameraman's last shot taken in 1960. Later on an external shot shows you what happened.

How fast are your reactions to a tail rotor failure at low speed.


That was at about 1,000ft. Try it at 300.

speed of sound about 330 metres per second, not feet

When thinking about what these specks might be - it is worth noting that this didn't happen during summer. It was a dark, cold evening - you won't find too many insects flying around in these conditions.

Saw this & final report..


https://www.fomento.gob.es/recursos_...boletin_03.pdf

So why is my CCTV motion detection triggered all night long by... Insects...

Have you personally experienced this particular failure, or practiced it in a simulator? Thirty years ago I was a QHI involved in a full motion helicopter simulator project for the UK military and was part of a team (of two) tasked to expand the then current teaching on tail rotor malfunctions, which was woefully inadequate. We did some practical test flying (hours costed by MOD on behalf of Boscombe Down) and developed a syllabus. We then began teaching both "ab initio" and experienced squadron pilots alike. I saw many highly experienced pilots fail to arrest the yaw rate in time, despite being pre-briefed and pre-warned that the T/R was about to malfunction. Bear in mind that this was in a simulator lesson doing nothing but tail rotor malfunctions.

Given that it takes a second or two to diagnose the failure in the real case, the pilot probably did as well as anyone could have in the circumstances. Note the slight pause in the yaw rate - it's likely that full opposite pedal was applied in an attempt to stop the yaw, probably a pilot response.Then once the tail rotor blades produced no more effective thrust, round it went again at an increased rate of yaw. Once a rapid fuselage spin develops, response to cyclic inputs may not be what is normally expected and that effective rotor rpm is reduced.

Other things that could cause a sudden yaw are a gust of wind, an autopilot/SAS malfunction, or an inadvertent foot touching a yaw pedal. Dumping the lever and chopping the engines would be an inappropriate immediate response.

This unfortunate pilot probably experienced a T/R drive failure at the most critical stage of flight imaginable. I say "probably" because AAIB haven't yet released initial findings and I am quite possibly wrong; obviously I'm only an amateur compared to some experts here.

DB - you can see the rate of rotation slow at about 300' whuich is when he speed selected the engines to idle - he said the most difficult thing was judging at what height to cushion the touchdown, he said he did it a bit too high - I think he did a pretty good job since most on board survived but it was unfortunate that it went in slightly backwards with about a 25g impact.

Stagger - except around hot, bright stadium lights......

[QUOTE=jeepys;10297648]No LTE. You can read the report in English towards the rear of the bulletin. There are of course other contributory factors but like is so often the case unless you are internal to the daily ops you only find out how people are living after these kind of accidents. Who knows if this Spanish accident is relevant but it does seem to have quite a few similarities?

watch the clip carefully then a repetitive playback of just at what I believe to be TDP at around 53-56 seconds. not this earlier one. watch carefully in the top left corner of the picture. then take a look at the photos in the newspapers of one of the three tail rotor blades which looks ripped off. is that the blade departing?

It's notable that RAF Wessex crews at that time had no simulator training.

Which are about 20 metres up from the camera position..so that insect would have to be rather large...I just find it a strange coincidence that from all the available space on the screen image, a bug appears to fly out from where the TR is located.

It does indeed appear to be from the same trajectory as the first quick movement across the screen.

However as has been pointed out, one would have thought that by now, there would have been reports of debris landing in the stadium.

When you play it back at quarter speed you can see it turn through nearly 90 degrees before exiting the top of the frame. Like Nige, I am firmly in the bug camp.

The anticoll on the AW169 sits on a main bus which is shed during double generator failure.

the third blade is likely burnt from the fire, but the wait and see camp wont want to hear that until some form of scientific testing is completed in 2030.

Learmount. For it is he....

A for what it is worth.....in this video....a Sikorsky S-58T lifting an AirCon from a RoofTop suffers a Tail Rotor Drive failure.....memory serves me the drive shaft couplings stripped causing the loss of drive with no components departing the aircraft.

I talked with the Pilot shortly after the event and he said he jettisoned the load and began to maneuver the aircraft towards a safe landing area and upon getting to a point he thought he could make an autorotation....he cut the engines.

When he lowered the nose to gain some airspeed to be able to flare.....is when it went all wrong.

He was genuinely remorseful when he said he regretted not being able to save the aircraft.

Without any implication with respect to the current accident, the pilot in the Wessex Welsh lake video seems to have done an outstanding job given the circumstances. Looks as though they managed to check some of the yaw and get some directional control before accepting more yaw and a reduced ROD and forward speed.

All the videos all show that once the yaw has accelerated following a serious anti-torque problem, stopping it is going to be extremely difficult, even with a lot of height.

It's not just another expert, helicrazi. As dukiematic says, it's Learmount (David). And you might not know, but the Honourable Company of Air Pilots (used to be GAPAN) has just given him its Award for Aviation Journalism.

airsound

Learmount.....:ugh:

Learmount, nearly as bad as Jim Ferguson, sadly with slightly more media street cred.

SND

The fast moving spec seen at 46 sec is, Imo, not a part of the aircraft. However the falling object appearing on the left at 54 sec's and disappearing into the floodlight glare at 58 is of more interest.

Aircraft type would also appear to play an important role in the rate of yaw development and prospects for recovery. The lake and hoist videos show quite rapid yaw arrest in response to control inputs. It makes me wonder if some aircraft are harder to get back, with the AW139 & AW169 more at that end of the spectrum.