Private Helicopter
 

Hi all. There is a private Helicopter owner flying around our neighbourhood from his own helipad on his property which is situated near a mix of housing and industrial buildings. There is a strip off clear land along a winding creek line, also bordered by large trees. If he took off along the creek line, he would definitely fly over houses before he reached a 1000 feet. I know that the min. height above built up areas is 1000 feet. I am asking Helicopter Pilots if it feasible for a helicopter to lift off and ascend to 1000 feet vertically and then fly off. Reverse for landing on every time the Helicopter is flown? Any advice appreciated. I am not against him flying his Helicopter, good on him, but he must follow the rules.

It may be possible at lighter weights to ascend vertically to 1000ft but vertical ascents involve a considerably higher risk than the normal takeoff technique you are witnessing. It sounds as if your neighbour is doing is what most single engine aircraft pilots do when possible, that is takeoff keeping suitable landing areas in close range as long as possible. Best thing would be to go & talk to him/ her about it, most pilots are happy to talk about what they do & why they do it.

A brand new poster, jumping on here to complain about a helicopter, and looking for reasons to get him shut down?

Nasty person, don't give him any more ammunition, GA is tough enough without our own kind making it worse.

Well thanks for the answers to my questions and as for Ascend Charlie, it is not that I want him to stop his flying, just for him to go and do it properly at an airport which is nearby. I think he will or is already getting complaints from residents to local and government authorities about his take off and landings. This person is a bit of a "noise" in the community and thinks they can do what they want. It is a Robinson R22. Other than that, thanks everybody.

Like others I would suggest he is following the rules. During takeoff and landing one may go below 1000' in those phases while using airmanship regarding surrounding environment..

So you do want to shut him down from his current operation, regardless that he is operating within CASA legislation and not breaking any aviation rules. Exactly as Ascent Charlie said.

Good luck, I had a NIMBY try to stop me once, he didn't get much response from the authorities.

Please advise what locality you are in so that supporters can put an opposing viewpoint to yours.

He is doing it "properly", he hasn't broken any rules...

Hmm, an R22 straight up to 1,000'? Well that would be pretty cool, I think the highest I've ever been able to go straight up is maybe 150'...then it just sits there.

To answer the OP: no.

Especially an R22; it is not only not feasible to lift vertically to 1,000ft (which is a limit not required during take off and landing) but downright dangerous to descend vertically from such a height. One of the main reasons for using a helicopter is to NOT have to use an airfield and a runway.

If you are not against him flying a helicopter (your words) and he is following the rules then you would by default be supporting his operation :cool:

There was a private pilot who lived on a large property up in Dural, north of Sydney, where he had a big nursery business. He bought a helicopter and built a helipad to CASA sizes, and started to fly in and out of his property.

One neighbour, perhaps it was Lockwood, complained bitterly to council, only one person complaining continuously, and got him shut down. The main reason, though, was that the pilot also drove a Rolls-Royce past the neighbour's house, and it was insane jealousy that magnified the noise impact in his head.

Bloody NIMBYs. Wouldn't complain about the garbage trucks at 4am ("Oh, that is an essential service") or a pack of Hells Angels roaring around his block ("they might kill me") but when a helicopter flies past, it is seen as the jetskis of the skies and must be removed. There is a dill who bought a house backing onto the Sunshine Coast Airport, and is now the driving force behind any noise restrictions at that place. The house with the blue roof, behind the airport-built big block wall, half-way down Rwy 18. The one who stops helicopters from using the runway at night.

Even using an airport doesn't stop the complaints.

So, Mr/Ms Lockwood, this is a Professional Pilots' website. Perhaps you are a pilot? If so, why are you complaining about a fellow pilot? If not, get off the site.

arent you just a dick sometimes yourself....
other than a reference to being under 18 and needing mommy and daddy to help sign you up, there isn't anything specifying who can join or cannot join. So get off your high horse and chill for ***** sake. The "professional" part is a rather loose term around here anyways.

So, to be a good chap and keep from being butt hurt, you should follow this below...


"Dealing with Troublesome UsersCan I block posts, emails and messages from specific users?

If there are particular members that bother you and you do not want to see their posts or receive Private Messages and Emails from them, then you can add these members to your 'Ignore List'. There are several ways to do this:

Through your User Control Panel: User CP, Settings & Options, Edit Ignore List. Then, type their name into the empty text box and click 'Okay'.

What if I see something offensive?

You will find 'Report' links in many places throughout the board. These links allow you to alert the board staff to anything which you find to be offensive, objectionable or illegal.

"

Minimum height requirements tend to exclude the take off and landing phase.. Regulators will have their own requirements that define what a suitable LZ is and any necessary precautions.
Unfortunately It only takes one person to lay a complaint and usually based on little else than ignorance, neurosis or envy.

Well, thank you, Gray Horizons, but not really relevant, when we are dealing with somebody whose only purpose in coming onto this site is to try to get a pilot shut down.

Stop feeding this troll information, which then might be used in a submission to council somewhere.

I know of 3 helipads on the Gold Coast hinterland that were shut down by the local council, not by CASA. In each case it was noise complaints that were the issue, one person complained the helicopter was upsetting his breeding camels!

no new information here, beyond what a quick google search will find him anyways. I'm sure all these nimby's have a pretty good grasp on the "legal" books of google
the added bonus is he could take the ignorant replies from here with him as proof that the "professional" pilots lack any professionalism. and who do you think wins that fight?

Probably be better to just shut him down with facts, than troll him with ignorant comments.

In an R22 so will coming down, after a long quiet bit.

i would hardly call any of this from either side as "evidence" at this point. but if you can look into that mythical crystal ball you possess and see past the fog, then be my guest. i still stand by my belief that professionalism and facts are the correct way to go. raise the bar Nigel, dont lower it.

Lockwood 16,

It takes a very large amount of power for a helicopter to ascend vertically to 1,000 feet, compared to a more normal angled climb, as your neighbour appears to sensibly fly. Also, if the engine stopped during such a manoeuvre, it puts the aircraft in an aerodynamic situation that may be unrecoverable. Someone already mentioned the "dead man's curve". This is a combination of speeds and height (a curve on a graph, determined by extensive testing by the manufacturer's test pilots) that would be highly likely to result in a crash if the engine did lose power. A vertical climb (of more than an ascent of just a few feet, not much more than the rotor diameter) puts a single engined helicopter right in that situation, so it's a manoeuvre that really must be avoided. If an accident resulted from a pilot flying in this way, the insurers would be greatly "displeased" to say the least.

As far as a vertical landing from a 1,000 foot hover is concerned, the above is of a similar concern, but for slightly different aerodynamic reasons. If you search for and read up about the phenomenon known as "Vortex ring state", with reference to helicopters, you will hopefully begin to understand why this isn't done - again it is likely to result in a major accident! Also, descending vertically means that the pilot can't actually see where he's going!

Here's one reference: https://www.skybrary.aero/index.php/Vortex_Ring

Actually, in the R22 once you pass 400' you are out of your "dead man's curve" and an auto from a hover is doable...especially if your landing area is right below you,...and yes I have done them,...well, from 500' anyway.

As for landing, he can easily come in quietly, its a simple technique, someone just needs to show him how,...if he cares to learn?

But as for doing this on every departure from and approach to a garden, (especially as your practice EOLs would have had you poised and ready to react ... and from a climb)?

I don't think the aircraft noise made was the main reason for the OP's concern. It seems to me the concern was more about "rules" being broken.

Must not break the "golden rule": give all of your neighbors frequent rides ;)

Hmm, never thought about doing an auto from a climb? There's something to bring up next time I go to the safety course.

Don't tempt fate, Butters, the aircraft has vertical momentum and lots of pitch pulled. When the engine quits, you have further to shove the lever down, and it takes longer for the upwards momentum (airflow coming from top) to convert to downwards flight (airflow coming from below) and the RRPM will decay so much more.

For that reason, most single-engine helicopters have a rate of climb limitation of 2000'/min. Not something that worries an R22, but 407 and the like can easily do it when light.

The engine is working hardest when in a climb. If there's any weakness, it might well let go at high power.

Happened to me on my licence test. We did the (expected) engine failure, so on the climb out after recovery I was very relaxed, with a 'glad that's over' attitude. Instructor rolled the throttle off on the climb-out and said 'engine failure' again. Certainly got my attention !