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Victoria Police Air Wing Tender
The Essendon refueller told me that Starflight are the preferred bidder for the Victorian police tender.
Another interesting move by an Australian government body looking to award to relatively unknown operator. |
Not wanting to 'thread creep', but on the topic of Australian Tenders, it all seems very quiet with regard to the NAFC Fire contracts. Aren't these supposed to be up for renewal in a matter of months? And I believe StarFlight were a very talked-about bidder with a bid-fleet of Blackhawks. Surely there must be some word on who is getting what by now?
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Whoever gets the contract, they should keep using the Dauphins until the new Airbus H160's are acquired. Don't go down the path of operating 139's like every other operator, and realize they are too big a machine for the role it plays.
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Originally Posted by Kulwin Park
(Post 10149345)
Whoever gets the contract, they should keep using the Dauphins until the new Airbus H160's are acquired. Don't go down the path of operating 139's like every other operator, and realize they are too big a machine for the role it plays.
Babcock MCS have ordered some, but not sure if that would be for their Australian operation lest bid for any police work |
Word is that it that they will be AW139s... like everyone else.
H160s won't be certified in time. |
A 139 for police work??
There won't be any quiet surveillance going on, then. The B206 was a good little workhorse for many years in NSW, and the BK was a x2.5 scale up, making it even better. Now they have B412, another x2.5 upscale, and the 139 is even bigger. The Vics have always had Daphne screeching around the suburbs, but the 139 is still a quantum leap from that one. Do they really need that much space for a police machine, or will it be rescue configured as well? |
Originally Posted by rrekn
(Post 10149784)
Word is that it that they will be AW139s... like everyone else.
H160s won't be certified in time. |
Lets be honest, you could do 98% of police work with a B407/AS350 etc but the Empires are being built and the Police force with the biggest toys wins!
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Dubai Police getting them, Abu Dhabi police got them, think the Dutch have some, Japan have some. Maryland State Police have a LOT.
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The tender for the VicPol AirWing states, among many other things, that a capability needs to exist for 8 SOG guys to be in the rear along with the FLIR console and it's operator; it'd be a squeeze for the 139 and it would most likely make it too heavy for CAT A helipad ops (not sure if that would matter much to the cops). They were looking at the 189 there for a while, including taking the demonstrator for a spin, but many think that would be overkill considering that 90% of the work is getting the FLIR ball on target
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I guess the days are gone where a night patrol involved a high hover at the western suburbs drive-in when Fatal Attraction was showing? Only the observer with the gyro-stabilised binos got a really good look, but it was still fun to be doing for real what the Blue Thunder boys did in the movie.
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Originally Posted by Ascend Charlie
(Post 10150028)
I guess the days are gone where a night patrol involved a high hover at the western suburbs drive-in when Fatal Attraction was showing? Only the observer with the gyro-stabilised binos got a really good look, but it was still fun to be doing for real what the Blue Thunder boys did in the movie.
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Originally Posted by KiwiNedNZ
(Post 10149877)
Dubai Police getting them..etc etc.
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John, how many JAFO caps did your guys have made?
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Originally Posted by Heliringer
(Post 10149870)
Lets be honest, you could do 98% of police work with a B407/AS350 etc but the Empires are being built and the Police force with the biggest toys wins!
Or maybe even an EC135.:hmm: |
Originally Posted by Tibbsy
(Post 10151043)
Or maybe even an EC135.:hmm:
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Isn't there an EC135 in the VicPol fleet already? |
Originally Posted by cattletruck
(Post 10151285)
Yes, and I'm told it's only good for driving the dog around. They really do like their Dauphines and I don't blame them.
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Who told you that? |
Well. Must be accurate then. No empire building to see here. |
One of the ex pilots told me the Dauphins were lacking a little (weight/performance) capacity for what they were doing with them. The normal thing is to upgrade the machines, then load them up with more gear/toys, till they are near the limit again. also What once was “normal” and quite acceptable. (Riding your pushbike at maximum speed bare headed/ flying SE over the city) is now considered out of the question. |
What's the wait on a new AW139? If you ordered one today you'd probably have to wait 2 years to get it.
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Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 10152098)
What's the wait on a new AW139? If you ordered one today you'd probably have to wait 2 years to get it.
the issue is role equipment fitout......that’s a mind field area and can take another year including shakeout. the other issue that will probably be an additional delay factor is training to operational status. VPAW has 14 pilots and some 30 aircrew.......this is a considerable number to train up.......and will take about a year at least. Of course some of this can be done concurrently, never the less, I reckon about 2 years from contract signing. VPAW has grown big over the years, it is a 24 / 7 operation and I’m told that it’s primary machine does a 100hrly every week and a half.......!! |
A mate of mine bought a new AW139 and it took 2 years to deliver from time of order....I think it was optioned out to about $20m USD. An optioned Police version would probably be north of that. AW139 initial is 2 weeks ground school + a month in the sim, but you do get two initial courses at Leonardo included with each new aircraft purchased. The others have to buy an initial course at $57K AUD each.
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Depends on the clout the successful contractor has with the helo manufacturer as to how quick they can fast track the acquisition.......watch this space once the contract is announced. As to training and level D sim for the 139 (if that’s the aircraft .... nothing confirmed yet)......in this region you have, Toll at Bankstown, Lifeflight in Brissy and Leonardo in KL. if it is the 139 then it’s a 4 week course to get the rating and another 2 weeks for an instructor type endorsement. |
Looks like something is coming... something 'like a 139'.
7NewsMelbourne/status/1011165946726109184 |
$50M doesn't buy a fleet of 139. It buys 2, plus some spares.
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Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 10182871)
$50M doesn't buy a fleet of 139. It buys 2, plus some spares.
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Don't need a Blackhawk for police work. Even an A139 is pushing it - the Dauphin was a good size, the BK117 is also good.
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I'm sure the residents of Melbourne would be happy with noisy Blackhawks stooging around the suburbs at night low level, not! The Army Blackhawks were in Perth 2 weeks ago doing just that, I guess having a last hurrah out of Swanbourne with the boys in black.
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If I recall correctly, the civilian version of the Blackhawk (S70i) is certified for fire fighting and currently doesn't have certification to operate over urban/built up areas - which would probably make for a crime spree in Melbourne and increase in convictions in Bendigo......
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https://cimg1.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.gmf...f96d2d09f9.jpg
Or something like this? Most modern police helicopter availalbe according various German and American police forces.... |
Plus they wouldn't even know you were there half the time - especially at night.
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King Air 350 rumoured to be one favourite for fixed wing but other rumour is it’s a big Otter |
PC-12 not suitable for Victoria Police? You could buy 4 of those for the price of an AW139. And probably cheaper to operate all 4 PC-12 than an AW139.
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PC-12 hover performance is not that flash...
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The tender states that all FW and RW aircraft need to be ME. My money is on the King Air as well |
Originally Posted by SAR driver
(Post 10184774)
The tender states that all FW and RW aircraft need to be ME. My money is on the King Air as well |
Originally Posted by gulliBell
(Post 10184780)
Oh right, so I guess the WA coppers will now have to follow that lead and sell their PC-12 for something else with more than 1 burner. And as for the whole single engine thing, the RAAF has opted for a single-engine 5th gen fast jet fighter, perhaps they'd better follow the Victoria Police lead as well and toss that idea for a twin. You know, like what they've been doing for past 30 years. But that's a whole different discussion.
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And I would suggest the WA coppers PC-12 is not a military operation. I'm only guessing their operational requirements are similar to Victoria Police (except they need to cover much more ground). So my suggestion is, if the Vics want twin FW, the WA coppers might do the same. The empire always looking for going one bigger and better, right? Now if WA got the same split of GST revenue as the Vics they could probably buy 20 AW139 and have plenty of change left over to pay their drivers $180k per year. That's what AW139 guys are getting now.
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