PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Rotorheads (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads-23/)
-   -   EC 130 down at the Grand Canyon (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/605275-ec-130-down-grand-canyon.html)

LRP 13th Feb 2018 18:42

Special Federal Aviation Regulation No. 50-2—Special Flight Rules in the Vicinity of the Grand Canyon National Park, AZ

Section 1. Applicability. This rule prescribes special operating rules for all persons operating aircraft in the following airspace, designated as the Grand Canyon National Park Special Flight Rules Area:
That airspace extending upward from the surface up to but not including 14,500 feet MSL within an area bounded by a line beginning at lat. 36°0930 N., long. 114°0300 W.; northeast to lat. 36°1400 N., long. 113°0950 W.; thence northeast along the boundary of the Grand Canyon National Park to lat. 36°2447 N., long. 112°5200 W.; to lat. 36°3030 N., long. 112°3615 W. to lat. 36°2130 N., long. 112°0000 W. to lat. 36°3530 N., long. 111°5310 W., to lat. 36°5300 N., long. 111°3645 W. to lat. 36°5300 N., long. 111°3300 W.; to lat. 36°1900 N., long. 111°5050 W.; to lat. 36°1700 N., long. 111°4200 W.; to lat. 35°5930 N., long. 111°4200 W.; to lat. 35°5730 N., long. 112°0355 W.; thence counterclockwise via the 5 statute mile radius of the Grand Canyon Airport airport reference point (lat. 35°5709 N., long. 112°0847 W.) to lat. 35°5730 N., long. 112°1400 W.; to lat. 35°5730 N., long. 113°1100 W.; to lat. 35°4230 N., long. 113°1100 W.; to 35°3830 N.; long. 113°2730 W.; thence counterclockwise via the 5 statute mile radius of the Peach Springs VORTAC to lat. 35°4120 N., long. 113°3600 W.; to lat. 35°5525 N., long. 113°4910 W.; to lat. 35°5745 N., 113°4520 W.; thence northwest along the park boundary to lat. 36°0220 N., long. 113°5015 W.; to 36°0010 N., long. 113°5345 W.; thence to the point of beginning.
Section 3. Aircraft operations: general. Except in an emergency, no person may operate an aircraft in the Special Flight Rules, Area under VFR on or after September 22, 1988, or under IFR on or after April 6, 1989, unless the operation—(a) Is conducted in accordance with the following procedures:
Note: The following procedures do not relieve the pilot from see-and-avoid responsibility or compliance with FAR 91.119.
(1) Unless necessary to maintain a safe distance from other aircraft or terrain—
(i) Remain clear of the areas described in Section 4; and
(ii) Remain at or above the following altitudes in each sector of the canyon:
Eastern section from Lees Ferry to North Canyon and North Canyon to Boundary Ridge: as prescribed in Section 5.
Boundary Ridge to Supai Point (Yumtheska Point): 10,000 feet MSL.
Western section from Diamond Creek to the Grant Wash Cliffs: 8,000 feet MSL.
(2) Proceed through the four flight corridors describe in Section 4 at the following altitudes unless otherwise authorized in writing by the Flight Standards District Office:
Northbound

11,500 or
13,500 feet MSL
Southbound

>10,500 or
>12,500 feet MSL
(b) Is authorized in writing by the Flight Standards District Office and is conducted in compliance with the conditions contained in that authorization. Normally authorization will be granted for operation in the areas described in Section 4 or below the altitudes listed in Section 5 only for operations of aircraft necessary for law enforcement, firefighting, emergency medical treatment/evacuation of persons in the vicinity of the Park; for support of Park maintenance or activities; or for aerial access to and maintenance of other property located within the Special Flight Rules Area. Authorization may be issued on a continuing basis.
(c)(1) Prior to November 1, 1988, is conducted in accordance with a specific authorization to operate in that airspace incorporated in the operator's part 135 operations specifications in accordance with the provisions of SFAR 50-1, notwithstanding the provisions of Sections 4 and 5; and
(2) On or after November 1, 1988, is conducted in accordance with a specific authorization to operate in that airspace incorporated in the operated in the operator's operations specifications and approved by the Flight Standards District Office in accordance with the provisions of SFAR 50-2.
(d) Is a search and rescue mission directed by the U.S. Air Force Rescue Coordination Center.
(e) Is conducted within 3 nautical miles of Whitmore Airstrip, Pearce Ferry Airstrip, North Rim Airstrip, Cliff Dwellers Airstrip, or Marble Canyon Airstrip at an altitudes less than 3,000 feet above airport elevation, for the purpose of landing at or taking off from that facility. Or
(f) Is conducted under an IFR clearance and the pilot is acting in accordance with ATC instructions. An IFR flight plan may not be filed on a route or at an altitude that would require operation in an area described in Section 4.
Section 4. Flight-free zones. Except in an emergency or if otherwise necessary for safety of flight, or unless otherwise authorized by the Flight Standards District Office for a purpose listed in Section 3(b), no person may operate an aircraft in the Special Flight Rules Area within the following areas:
(a) Desert View Flight-Free Zone. Within an area bounded by a line beginning at Lat. 35°5930 N., Long. 111°4620 W. to 35°5930 N., Long. 111°5245 W.; to Lat. 36°0450 N., Long. 111°5200 W.; to Lat. 36°0600 N., Long. 111°4620 W.; to the point of origin; but not including the airspace at and above 10,500 feet MSL within 1 mile of the western boundary of the zone. The area between the Desert View and Bright Angel Flight-Free Zones is designated the “Zuni Point Corridor.”
(b) Bright Angel Flight-Free Zone. Within an area bounded by a line beginning at Lat. 35°5930 N., Long. 111°5530 W.; to Lat. 35°5930 N., Long. 112°0400 W.; thence counterclockwise via the 5 statute mile radius of the Grand Canyon Airport point (Lat. 35°5709 N., Long. 112°0847 W.) to Lat. 36°0130 N., Long. 112°1100 W.; to Lat. 36°0615 N., Long. 112°1250 W.; to Lat. 36°1440 N., Long. 112°0850 W.; to Lat. 36°1440 N., Long. 111°5730 W.; to Lat. 36°1230 N., Long. 111°5350 W.; to the point of origin; but not including the airspace at and above 10,500 feet MSL within 1 mile of the eastern boundary between the southern boundary and Lat. 36°0450 N. or the airspace at and above 10,500 feet MSL within 2 miles of the northwest boundary. The area bounded by the Bright Angel and Shinumo Flight-Free Zones is designated the “Dragon Corridor.”
(c) Shinumo Flight-Free Zone. Within an area bounded by a line beginning at Lat. 36°0400 N., Long. 112°1640 W.; northwest along the park boundary to a point at Lat. 36°1247 N., Long. 112°3053 W.; to Lat. 36°2115 N., Long. 112°2020 W.; east along the park boundary to Lat. 36°2115 N., Long. 112°1355 W.; to Lat. 36°1440 N., Long. 112°1125 W.; to the point of origin. The area between the Thunder River/Toroweap and Shinumo Flight Free Zones is designated the “Fossil Canyon Corridor.”
(d) Toroweap/Thunder River Flight-Free Zone. Within an area bounded by a line beginning at Lat. 36°2245 N., Long. 112°2035 W.; thence northwest along the boundary of the Grand Canyon National Park to Lat. 36°1748 N., Long. 113°0315 W.; to Lat. 36°1500 N., Long. 113°0710 W.; to Lat. 36°1030 N., Long. 113°0710 W.; thence east along the Colorado River to the confluence of Havasu Canyon (Lat. 36°1840 N., Long. 112°4545 W.;) including that area within a 1.5 nautical mile radius of Toroweap Overlook (Lat. 36°1245 N., Long. 113°0330 W.); to the point of origin; but not including the following airspace designated as the “Tuckup Corridor”: at or above 10,500 feet MSL within 2 nautical miles either side of a line extending between Lat. 36°2447 N., Long. 112°4850 W. and Lat. 36°1710 N., Long. 112°4850 W.; to the point of origin.
Section 5. Minimum flight altitudes. Except in an emergency or if otherwise necessary for safety of flight, or unless otherwise authorized by the Flight Standards District Office for a purpose listed in Section 3(b), no person may operate an aircraft in the Special Flight Rules Area at an altitude lower than the following:
(a) Eastern section from Lees Ferry to North Canyon: 5,000 feet MSL.
(b) Eastern section from North Canyon to Boundary Ridge: 6,000 feet MSL.
(c) Boundary Ridge to Supai (Yumtheska) Point: 7,500 feet MSL.
(d) Supai Point to Diamond Creek: 6,500 feet MSL.
(e) Western section from Diamond Creek to the Grand Wash Cliffs: 5,000 feet MSL.
Section 9. Termination date. Section 1. Applicability, Section 4, Flight-free zones, and Section 5. Minimum flight altitudes, expire on April 19, 2001.
Note: [Removed]
[66 FR 1003, Jan. 4, 2001, as amended at 66 FR 16584, Mar. 26, 2001; 72 FR 9846, Mar. 6, 2007]




This all came about as a response to a mid-air in June 1986 between a tour B206 and a tour Twin Otter. I pulled some of the bodies out.



Prior to that it was the wild west for Canyon tours.


Don't know of any restrictions reference "rescue before dark".

Helicodger Pilot 13th Feb 2018 20:53

sunset time
 
FYI/ FWIW
According to the US Naval Observatory website, sunset in that area on Feb. 10 was at 1814. The crash reportedly happened at around 1720, so there was about an hour and a half of daylight/ twilight left for the rescue operations before things got really dark.

OffshoreHeli-Mgr 14th Feb 2018 03:04


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 10050837)
So, as rotorspeed says - it is a surprise that they operate so late that any rescue can't be completed in daylight.



I'm sure the FAA will have a new rule to cover that situation.

rotorbug 14th Feb 2018 04:52


Originally Posted by tigerfish (Post 10049788)
Durban, I'm getting a bit rusty now on my Eurocopter's, but your picture looks more like the smaller EC120, than the EC130. Difficult because the image is a bit small.

TF

No, EC130. I flew in it and I know the difference.

ExGrunt 15th Feb 2018 08:57

NTSB Press conference video;


Thomas coupling 16th Feb 2018 21:10

It didnt crash because of a regulation.
So any guesses what happened?
This is Pprune after all.
My guess: Donk stopped inside the dead mans curve......

gulliBell 16th Feb 2018 22:06


Originally Posted by Thomas coupling (Post 10055518)
..My guess: Donk stopped inside the dead mans curve......

Pretty big dead mans curve over that terrain in a single engine helicopter.

Thomas coupling 16th Feb 2018 23:45

What?
What's that got to do with dead mans curve?

megan 17th Feb 2018 00:02

He means it's unforgiving terrain in which to pull off a successful auto, as in, the same as going into tall timber.

gulliBell 17th Feb 2018 01:19


Originally Posted by megan (Post 10055625)
He means it's unforgiving terrain in which to pull off a successful auto, as in, the same as going into tall timber.

Correct (YODA KNOWS ALL).

Hot and Hi 17th Feb 2018 10:46


Originally Posted by megan (Post 10055625)
He means it's unforgiving terrain in which to pull off a successful auto, as in, the same as going into tall timber.

At any normal tour altitude you would never be in the avoid side of the HV diagram. If it was just an engine out, there would have been plenty of time to autorotate to an acceptable spot for a zero speed landing.

Worst thing would be then rolling to its side. Which of course could theoretically start the fire we have seen.

I can’t see why it would be similar to autorotating into tall timber.

Thomas coupling 17th Feb 2018 11:07

Exactly.
I'm curious, does the FAA clear tour operators to loiter inside the curve in a single?
If not, then a donk stop would indeed be more forgiving in that the availability to choose your LZ would increase.
The pictures suggest that once committed, the hostile terrain would exacerbate a roll over etc.
Interesting to hear from a tour pilot in this area and what their rules are regarding hostile terrain?

gulliBell 17th Feb 2018 11:35


Originally Posted by Hot and Hi (Post 10056027)
At any normal tour altitude you would never be in the avoid side of the HV diagram. If it was just an engine out, there would have been plenty of time to autorotate to an acceptable spot for a zero speed landing...

In the photos of the accident site vicinity I don't see any suitable ground for a zero speed landing...it all looks hostile to me...and would you really be intending to do a zero speed landing in (what I assume to be) a heavy aircraft with 6 POB?

chopjock 17th Feb 2018 12:05


In the photos of the accident site vicinity I don't see any suitable ground for a zero speed landing...it all looks hostile to me..and would you really be intending to do a zero speed landing in (what I assume to be) a heavy aircraft with 6 POB?
What is suitable ground for a zero speed landing? Surely hostile ground is more likely to require a zero speed landing? If there is no chance for a run on then a hard flare and a vertical drop would be the lesser of the two evils No?

gulliBell 17th Feb 2018 12:31


Originally Posted by chopjock (Post 10056110)
What is suitable ground for a zero speed landing?

Level. In to wind. Obstacle free.

wrench1 17th Feb 2018 12:33


Originally Posted by Thomas coupling (Post 10056049)
I'm curious, does the FAA clear tour operators to loiter inside the curve in a single?

136.13 Helicopter performance plan and operations.
(a) Each operator must complete a performance plan before each helicopter commercial air tour, or flight operated under 14 CFR 91.146 or 91.147. The pilot in command must review for accuracy and comply with the performance plan on the day the flight is flown. The performance plan must be based on the information in the Rotorcraft Flight Manual (RFM) for that helicopter, taking into consideration the maximum density altitude for which the operation is planned, in order to determine:

(1) Maximum gross weight and center of gravity (CG) limitations for hovering in ground effect;

(2) Maximum gross weight and CG limitations for hovering out of ground effect; and

(3) Maximum combination of weight, altitude, and temperature for which height/velocity information in the RFM is valid.

(b) Except for the approach to and transition from a hover for the purpose of takeoff and landing, or during takeoff and landing, the pilot in command must make a reasonable plan to operate the helicopter outside of the caution/warning/avoid area of the limiting height/velocity diagram.

(c) Except for the approach to and transition from a hover for the purpose of takeoff and landing, during takeoff and landing, or when necessary for safety of flight, the pilot in command must operate the helicopter in compliance with the plan described in paragraph (b) of this section.

[email protected] 17th Feb 2018 12:44

So, since this operator has special dispensation to land in the Canyon, do we think this crash occurred on approach or departure from the LS.

chopjock 17th Feb 2018 12:47

guille

Level. In to wind. Obstacle free.
More likely applies to a long run on...
If you have obstacles, a run on is to be avoided, surely? Therefore if obstacles are in the way of a run on, then a zero speed would be the preferred option?

nigelh 17th Feb 2018 13:34

I think it’s pretty obvious that a zero speed ( or v slow speed) auto is the only one available over rocky ground like that . The important thing is to stay upright which would be almost impossible doing a run on over boulders ! Would be interested to learn if anyone thinks differently.

Mast Bumper 17th Feb 2018 15:40

The terrain in the pictures dictates a zero airspeed touchdown. Not sure why some on here get that confused.

Niner Lima Charlie 17th Feb 2018 21:54

Witness Lionel Douglass, who was attending a wedding on a bluff about 1,000 yards away from where the helicopter crashed and exploded. Douglass told ABC News that he saw the helicopter plummet from the sky after doing two complete circles as if the pilot was searching for a spot to set the aircraft down.

"It happened so fast. When I saw them turning, I wasn't sure what he was doing and by the time I yelled to everybody to turn around and look, it was all out of control," Douglass said. "It fell down between the mountains, the tail broke in half, it hit the bottom and it was the biggest explosion you ever heard and then flames like you never seen before."

He said the initial explosion was followed by five or six others.

gulliBell 17th Feb 2018 22:22


Originally Posted by Mast Bumper (Post 10056287)
The terrain in the pictures dictates a zero airspeed touchdown. Not sure why some on here get that confused.

...and who is confused?

Thomas coupling 18th Feb 2018 00:01

Well the witness suggests it all got out of hand whilst circling so my dead mans curve theory just went south.

gulliBell 18th Feb 2018 02:49


Originally Posted by Thomas coupling (Post 10056628)
...so my dead mans curve theory just went south.

I'm curious what people's understanding of dead mans curve is, and how you might apply a HV chart in an operational context.

From the eye witness account the helicopter was out of control, and the tail boom was chopped off before it hit the ground. Engine failure is still a possibility...the eye witness description might fit a low RRPM situation during an auto-rotational descent.

nigelh 18th Feb 2018 06:39

But surely low rpm would mean blades would bend up and away from the tail ? Either way it changes everything if the tail came off before impact .

chopjock 18th Feb 2018 08:22


But surely low rpm would mean blades would bend up and away from the tail
Low rpm also brings less stability, so a little cyclic stick movement can lead to a lot of response...

[email protected] 18th Feb 2018 09:13


Low rpm also brings less stability, so a little cyclic stick movement can lead to a lot of response...
you will probably have slower response to cyclic input but the aerodynamic damping will also be less - the apparent lack of response can lead to larger control inputs and over-controlling.

As with TC - my theory about it happening on approach or departure also went South.

I'm not sure there is any confusion about dead-man's curve - inside it you are unlikely to be able to achieve a safe autorotative state that will allow you to carry out a normal EOL - it assumes a one second delay between engine failure and pilot action. It doesn't mean you will die but unless you are very skillful or very lucky, you are probably going to bend the machine and possibly yourself.

HughMartin 18th Feb 2018 10:56

Having been persuaded by my wife, she and I took a tour flight some years ago. We were taken from the top and dropped off at the bottom of the canyon for a boat trip then flown back up. There was quite a bit of time during our particular flights that there was no safe landing point within autorotational distance. I was not comfortable at all having spent most of my career flying twins.

chopjock 18th Feb 2018 11:21


I was not comfortable at all having spent most of my career flying twins.
Well perhaps take comfort from the fact that most accidents are due to pilot error and single engine helicopters are more reliable than twins. :}

gulliBell 18th Feb 2018 12:16


Originally Posted by [email protected] (Post 10056867)
..I'm not sure there is any confusion about dead-man's curve..

Maybe, but pilots need to be mindful that the HV diagram is predicated on <5kts of wind on the nose, operating at maximum allowable takeoff weight, and having a hard surface runway infront of you to safely land straight ahead should an engine suddenly become inoperative.

If you are lighter than max then obviously more fudge factor goes in your favour the lighter you are.

Without the hard surface runway you are outside the test parameters under which the HV chart was drawn. Obviously if the landing area is instead a boulder field full of big rocks you aren't likely to pull off a safe landing if the donk quits even if you've avoided flying within the shaded area of the chart. Which is why I was puzzled somewhat at the initial mention of dead-mans curve in the operational context of this accident.

India Four Two 18th Feb 2018 15:10

I took a Papillon EC-130 tourist flight from the Grand Canyon Airport a couple of years ago. The whole flight was within the National Park, was above the canyon rim and followed a predefined GPS-waypoint flightpath.

I had no idea that there was another operation downstream of the National Park in the Hualapai reservation, which included flights and landings within the canyon. While looking for information on this, I stumbled on a very interesting National Geographic article about the impact of tourism on the canyon:

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/m...ational-parks/

In the article is this amazing time-lapse photo of the helicopter and boat traffic in the Hualapai reservation:

http://i.imgur.com/hYPkmpY.png


At the Grand Canyon, summer brings heavy traffic. This sequence of images—a time-lapse composite of 160 choppers on two different flight paths—covers an eight-hour period on July 9, 2016. Besides numerous boats, 363 helicopters were counted. On peak days, that number can exceed 450.
160 helicopters in eight hours - one every three minutes. It's a very busy place!

Rigga 18th Feb 2018 22:11

IFT - I agree - last September I was a passenger on such a Papillon Ec-130 flight and I could clearly see five to eight helicopters in the 'Queue' of traffic making its way over the reservoirs and valley route from Boulder City - the higher route apparently. I did not see any helicopters lower than us but I was not looking for them. In my uneducated view, there was about a half-mile separation between us.

HughMartin 18th Feb 2018 22:46


Originally Posted by chopjock (Post 10056978)
Well perhaps take comfort from the fact that most accidents are due to pilot error and single engine helicopters are more reliable than twins. :}

I am not making any implication as to the cause of this particular tragic accident. I was only making a point regarding the overall safety of flying singe engined helicopters over hostile terrain.

Show me the evidence that demonstrates that single engined helicopters have a lower engine failure rate PER INSTALLED ENGINE than multi engines helicopters, excluding intentional precautionary shut-downs

You also need to show me the evidence that singles have a lower forced landing rate than multis.

The logic of your statement above would indicate you are arguing for single engine helicopters to replace twin engine helicopters for all offshore operations over hostile seas.

megan 19th Feb 2018 00:05

Hugh, his comment was a jocular reference to a certain poster here who continuously maintains that a single engine helo is safer than a twin. Note the emoticon he concludes with.

HughMartin 19th Feb 2018 07:33

Thanks for that megan I learn something every day. I didn't recognise the connection of a face with bad teeth and humour. Too subtle for me :O

Bravo73 19th Feb 2018 07:59


Originally Posted by megan (Post 10057532)
Hugh, his comment was a jocular reference to a certain poster here who continuously maintains that a single engine helo is safer than a twin. Note the emoticon he concludes with.

I don’t actually think his post was a reference to another poster. However, it was certainly intended to incit a reaction. Hugh bit.

A681001 19th Feb 2018 19:58

I saw this on a site,

" on the trip immediately before the fatal flight the helicopter abruptly turned around on the eastern (outbound) leg of the trip and returned home without touring the canyon"
probably a pax was airsick , sounds like there where quite gusty conditions

the wedding witness as mentioned on a previous post flew out and back in a helicopter and reported a rough ride , media have dramatized it

https://www.azcentral.com/story/news...ays/348127002/

megan 20th Feb 2018 00:44

Bravo, you're obviously not familiar with the thoughts and writings of AnFI.

Bravo73 20th Feb 2018 13:06

I am. You are obviously not familiar with the 'thoughts' and writings of chopjock.

AnFI 20th Feb 2018 16:56

is it thought that the engine failed?
seems more likely the tail failed?


All times are GMT. The time now is 18:12.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.