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So, as rotorspeed says - it is a surprise that they operate so late that any rescue can't be completed in daylight.
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Originally Posted by Gordy
(Post 10050818)
There is a rescue helicopter in the Grand Canyon, I believe staffed by Papillon. They do not however operate at night as per DOI rules.
cheers |
Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry
(Post 10050310)
He added: "Yesterday, we were hampered by severe weather conditions [and] we had gusts up to 50mph [80kmph]." He said the terrain around the crash site was also "extremely rugged".
Are there any restrictions for wind speeds for scenic flights over the canyon? |
Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 10050837)
So, as rotorspeed says - it is a surprise that they operate so late that any rescue can't be completed in daylight.
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The police chief said the 1st responders took 20 mins to get there - so they didn't walk, and could not use wheels...
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Henra has a good point - if the conditions were so poor that the rescue could not be made by the company helicopter, why were they flying? There is something not quite straight with everyone's story.
The 10 o'clock news showed another helicopter landing people to give assistance so where was the brownout dust conditions and the 50 mph wind? |
Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 10051040)
Henra has a good point - if the conditions were so poor that the rescue could not be made by the company helicopter, why were they flying? There is something not quite straight with everyone's story.
The 10 o'clock news showed another helicopter landing people to give assistance so where was the brownout dust conditions and the 50 mph wind? |
Flew the canyon 2 years ago in may with a different operator... is very inhospitable when things go south... RIP to the deceased and speedy recovery to the survivors... :(:(
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AvSafety network lists this call sign.
This pic is an old archive photo off google , pilot unknown. https://i62.servimg.com/u/f62/11/94/64/62/45460b10.jpg |
Originally Posted by [email protected];10051040[COLOR="Red"
]Henra has a good point - if the conditions were so poor that the rescue could not be made by the company helicopter, why were they flying? [/COLOR] There is something not quite straight with everyone's story.
The 10 o'clock news showed another helicopter landing people to give assistance so where was the brownout dust conditions and the 50 mph wind? |
We were in LV till that morning. We had five days of brilliant sunshine, light winds if any and temps from 21 to 25 deg C. Of course winds in desert 80 miles away might be very different.
We have done the "Night" tour of the strip by helicopter and it was very, very professional. Aircraft appeared to be in excellent condition. Judging by the video just shown on TV here they were lucky anyone survived. Serious blaze from the machine. |
NTSB press conference announced:
Media Advisory: NTSB Briefing on Grand Canyon Helicopter Crash 2/12/2018 WASHINGTON (Feb. 12, 2018) — The NTSB will today hold an on-camera briefing followed by a telephone conference call on the Feb. 10, 2018, crash of a tour helicopter at the Grand Canyon. WHEN: 1 p.m. Pacific time (on-camera briefing) 1:30 p.m. Pacific time (telephone conference) WHERE: City Hall, Boulder City, Nevada 401 California Avenue Boulder City, Nevada 89005 WHO: Stephen Stein, Investigator-in-Charge DETAILS: Teleconference number: Toll free, USA: 888-500-6975 International: 719-325-2330 Conference ID: 5950992 |
Apparently, different rules because the flight was on tribal lands:
Grand Canyon helicopter crashed on tribal land with fewer rules - Chicago Tribune |
Aviation attorney Gary C. Robb said potential factors were winds of 10 mph with gusts of 20 mph, pilot error, mechanical failure or pressure within the company to meet the demand for tours. Is this a form of positive discrimination where 'special rules' or alleviation from current regulations are allowed simply because you are dealing with a native Indian reservation? If there is a safety case for limiting flying (curfew) in the rest of the canyon then it should apply to the reservation area as well. |
Aviation attorney Gary C. Robb... Robb said the EC-130 helicopter flown Saturday generally lacks a system to keep it from exploding, denying passengers a few extra minutes to try to escape. Let's whip everyone up in a litigious frenzy shall we? If the US is like other countries, national parks often have restrictions as they are protected areas so limitations for noise, for example, apply. If it's private land and you're happy to swap some disturbance for money then why not? |
If it's private land and you're happy to swap some disturbance for money then why not? I suspect now that many tourists will stick to the more regulated areas for their tours. |
Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 10051605)
That's fine, but there is the responsibility for the safety of the tourists who would, anywhere else in the Canyon, have regulated flights. Just because the reservation wants to make money, doesn't mean they can be exempt from sensible safety rules.
I suspect now that many tourists will stick to the more regulated areas for their tours. I take it they probably license out the rights to fly in the area so this also has a bearing on cost to operators? |
As i understand it - flights elsewhere in the Canyon are regulated with strict curfew which would ensure safe return or rescue before dark. From what the media are saying, that doesn't apply to the Reservation area along with limits on landing in the Canyon.
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
(Post 10051605)
I suspect now that many tourists will stick to the more regulated areas for their tours.
Many moons ago when I flew tours in Hawaii, I met tourists who just wanted the cheapest flight they could get, and did not care about safety. |
I'm sure that is the case - right up to the point where they are involved in an accident:{Then the lawyers start circling.......
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