Bad weather hampers search for helicopter flight recorder

Irish Lights ship Granuaile is now docked in Galway. So also are the Celtic Voyager and Celtic Explorer.

RTE report from a couple of hours ago
https://twitter.com/patmcgrath/statu...94771156553728

If you select one of the historic map layers, it will give you names of headlands and bays not on other maps
http://map.geohive.ie/mapviewer.html

The Annagh Head referenced above must be more than 10nm north of crash.

Sort of, yes and no. As I mentioned, I was Chief Trainer on the L2 fleet - that "fleet" consisting only of G-JSAR. I had a conflict with some of the pilots: My feeling was that first of all, they had to be licenced pilots with an IR. That meant they had to pass an OPC and LPC, do procedural IFR airfield approaches, do CAT/Group A arrivals and departures. THEN, they could be SAR pilots by adding on the SAR training. But in some cases, all the first bit was somewhat resented. They just wanted to wazz around at 200' with things dangling. Given the choice when returning to base from a training sortie in poor weather, some would prefer to scrape in at 200' every time, rather than fly an ILS. Thus they routinely operated with lower safety margins than necessary, and when it came to OPC time they struggled to perform "normal pilot" stuff due to lack of practice.

Of course I realise I am taking on the SAR boys club here, but someone has to do it!

Please enlighten me Same Again? There were a number of crashes certainly due to mechanical failure and in one case stonefall during a winching but my memory must be clouded, as you say!

Albert, standing here outside the fray, I offer this observation in a spirit of wanting to help. (On PpruNe? That alone will get me shot down!). But it seems to me you are talking about SAR CFITs, although your words said RAF CFITs. Just think of the FJ CFITs in that period, and you'll see why you are at cross purposes with Same Again.

The winchman and winch operator are both ex military, would have done SAR on Dauphins for the Aer Corps back in the day.

I'll drink to that SAS! I always tried hard not to...

UNA - please do not for one minute think that I'm dis respecting the crew of 116. We just don't know, yet, what caused them to crash. My thoughts - I operated for eight years from Brawdy, our 'bread and butter' were west of Ireland jobs, often at max range and night, before the Dauphin came in and again when they had problems with the trans down . It was pre S61 at Shannon (initially), pre SK at Valley and Chivenor, pre Crab even! I am as keen as anyone to find out what went wrong - once SAR always SAR I guess - although Same Again might correct me.

I didn't think you were, just adding info, there were questions asked about whether crew had military training.

HC, not every airfield is Aberdeen - or has an ILS. Of those that do some have higher minimums than 200'. I have landed at many hospitals but not one has an ILS approach. Any competent IR rated pilot can safely fly an ILS solo or monitor the helicopter doing so.

SAR operations often involve letting down to a vessel or cliffs in the pitch dark using auto-pilot SAR modes, search radar, FLIR and NVG as a combined 4 crew operation. Once the SAR Op is complete we still have to return to base or the hospital and, if the weather is below 'normal' limits, this will also involve a pre-determined and practiced Poor Visibility Approach again using SAR modes, search radar, FLIR and NVG.

We all maintain IFR approach currency but SAR night/low-vis approaches are much more difficult and carry higher risk. Therefore these are practiced more often and hence SAR crews who operate in the low-level environment prefer to practice in this environment, or, as you put it 'wazz around at 200 feet'

Image of Aer Corp AW139 on Blackrock helipad
https://www.rollingnews.ie/p/asset/90505720

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7IaodqW4AIBDLD.jpg

NVG (ANVIS and Nightbird) was one of the biggest changes to night capability and safety that I witnessed and enjoyed during my SH and SAR time. Do you know if the front enders would have been so equipped?

Irish Lights vessel "Granuaile" has arrived in Galway this Evening, she will load a submersible from the Marine Institute along with other equipment and is due to depart to the crash site tomorrow. The Church where Captain Dara Fitzpatrick is being taken to tomorrow morning is situated on a road that is numbered the R116 .That is its designated number and has always been that number.


Link: Specialist ship for Rescue 116 search to be kitted-out in Galway - Connacht Tribune

Just to clarify, I'm a civilian ATCO who works with ex military ATCOS who worked with these guys. According to a previous poster, CHC crews have had NVG for over 3 years.

:= Same again

HeliComp's chaps were merely ''tooling around at 200ft'' whereas you (and I) might wazz around :ok:

Am I right to assume the capability of the SeaKing Military Radar is far more capable than the Commercial Radar on the 92 andL2?

Crab and HC, I didn't ask about the regulatory regime so that we could descend into classic pprune willy-waving. I asked in the hope that it might contribute to our understanding of the aircraft being out near Black Rock, and possibly on a long approach, if someone who understood the regulatory regime that applies to the Irish Coastguard contract were able to clarify what applies to flights of this nature.

On UK SAR, there is a distinction between SAR flight and non-SAR flight and the detail of that distinction continues to develop. I know that the Irish regime is different but I do not know the details.

SASless

From what I remember, Mil SK radar not too good dead ahead due to fuselage being in the way but good at seeing where you have been (I was told that by an ex SK SAR guys. Never flew SK, just SAR Wessex and SAR S61N) :)

No idea SAS, never flew the 92 or L2. A lot depended on the RADOP as to how capable it really was.

Tip Cap - a lot of crap was talked about the SK 28deg blind arc dead ahead (some of it by me before I converted from Wessex!). In reality it was easily coped with by drift and procedures - not a real problem at all.

Are Blackrock and Blacksod already in the pre-loaded waypoints in the FMS data base or
do they need to be loaded manually? If pre-loaded what are the respective designators?

L2 min range 0.3nm then useless