Emergency Helicopter crash in Italy
 

Not many detail available yet. The news talk about bad weather, fog in the area, 6 people on board, possible an ELT signaland the sound of an explosion
Emergency helicopter crashes near avalanche zone - The Local

Breaking News Central Italy - An emergency helicopter has fallen: still no break to the misfortune

tbc https://www.planespotters.net/Aviati...php?reg=EC-KJT tbc

RIP :-(

I delivered it to Spain from italy in 2007...
http://www.ddd.dgualdo.it/eckjt/eckjt-ama-001.jpg

:(
https://scontent.fmad3-1.fna.fbcdn.n...13&oe=5904E07A

Sad news.


My condolences and thoughts are with the families of those lost helping others.

Doesnt look good :(



skadi

Rest in Peace

RIP
sad, very sad news :(

Sounds like bad weather was the cause, but articles also mention a possible wire strike?


Emergency helicopter crashes near L'Aquila killing all six on board, including two Hotel Rigopiano rescuers


My prayers are with the crew, their families and colleagues.

If you look at the wreckage path in the video this one has written CFIT all over it. After initial impact the wreckage continued for quite a distance uphill a steep slope. Must have been quite high horizontal and low to no vertical energy impact.
Doesn't really look like wire strike.

I wonder why the TR blades look more or less undamaged.

Certainly looks like the ground came up rather than the aircraft went down.

I'm pretty sure the weather was blameless....

evil 7, probably because they didn't hit anything. Tailboom came to rest upright, with (compared to the cabin) very little damage.

And from those grainy photo's, I wouldn't be betting that there is no damage on them, perhaps a Damper pulled out, or cracks in the skin. Who knows.

Most likely this helicopter droped vertically with almost 0 horizontal speed.
The wreackage is concentrated in one spot, the Gearbox and blades have almost not displaced from their original possition and the traces you see on the snow going downhill are produced by the rescue team coming from the road just downhill and not by the helicopter. If the helicopter would have impacted folowwing that trace, the fuselage would be oriented in the other direction and the nose would be real buried on the slope.
The tail boom is aligned with the fuselage and fractures are observed to be apparently related to vertical impact forces that sheared the tailbom partially
The wreakage is consistent with a high vertical speed almost 0 horizontal speed impact.
The thing that calls my attention is that the blades appear to have been severelz destroyed and on the picture I fail to see most of them or fragments of them so makes me think about the possibility the rotor may have impacted the mountain wall previously. However this is just an hypotesis based on the poor resolution pictures available.

FURIA, you have been doing SAR for awhile?
 

Why did the helo 'drop' vertically (with decent rpm given state of MR blades)

You really think so soon after the crash that those little specks of the rescue team made all that debris mess down slope?

Have you attended many aircraft accidents (god forbid) and do you actually fly or have flown a 139?

Henra in an above post is on the mark with his call.

A tragedy in awful circumstances, that shouldn't happen in such a capable helicopter when used to its full potential.

I have flown that very helicopter EC-KJT in Spain years ago, been doing SAR in 139 for a decade and I have 2 University Courses in Aircraft Accident Investigation.
All I mention here is pure speculation based on the pictures available and does not pretend to be a technical analysis, however some relevant facts appear evident without too much analysis.
It seem obvious to me that the helicopter was not flying uphill. Impact marks and fuselage orientation show different.
Debris print on ground suggests a high vertical impact with not much horizontal speed. The debris on the slope is the path used by rescueres to access the crash site compounded by helicopter fluids and some parts that may have drift down the slope by gravity.
I do say this here because this is a rummors forum and I am in no way producing a "accident technical report" of this. I have only seen one picture of the crash and the avilable video. So take it with a pintch of salt
Withouth more data this is the fast initial idea that comes to my mind. So take it as it is, pure speculation.
if you have more solid data to sustain a CFIT with horizontal speed, I am all ears.

I would say it looks exactly like CFIT, and the smear on the snow came from the impact. Here's one that hit the ground at 125 kts - look familiar?

http://news.images.itv.com/image/fil...update_img.jpg
http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/m...178543728b.jpg

Well that changes my perspective on accident reports.

I will look out for the ones with Furias name at the bottom.

Then look for a large sack of salt.

Just goes to show that there is a huge difference between "education" and "experience". Have you ever been to an aircraft accident?

Come back here when you have scraped about 20 or so off the hill and put them on a trailer.

Otherwise just more meaningless drivel and noise.

Just sayin'

So the aircraft flas flying uphill in a +45º slope. Crashed and turned around perfectly 180º to point with the nose where he was coming from? Or it was flying backwards?
What flying path you suggest he wes flying to leave that trace in the snow? Upslope?

Why is everyone so confrontational on here? Been taking steroids?

Did you actually look at the photos I showed? Having re-checked the accident report (https://assets.publishing.service.go...LBAL_10-15.pdf), I see that it hit the ground at 90 kts and 25 degrees nose down - so, similar to flying level into a slope. Yes, the wreckage has ended up pointing in the opposite direction to the travel at impact. The fuselage absorbs most of the energy and the tail boom 'flops' over with insufficient energy to cause much damage.

Sorry I do not think the dynamics and forces that apply to crashing into a +45º slope are the same as flying into a flat field no matter what was the helicopter attitude at the moment. For me those are different scenarios.
I do not agree with your theory that after the impact the full helicopter rotated 180º. Cockpit remains are properly aligned facing front. Gearbox is in the proximity of its natural location and the tail is fairly in good condition.
It is not the same to make a 180º turn into a flat field than into a steep slope.
In any case I have already said, what I have said is pure speculation. Hopefully having both FDR and CVR recovered we will know for certain what happened soon.
Just watching a picture and a video is not the way to analyze and accident. There is a ton of relevant data missing in order to elaborate a serious conclusion. However this is a rummors forum ;)

Does anyone happen to know whether this aircraft was fitted with LIDAR?

FURIA
 

Granted you have AW139 time then.

Hope you didn't personally pay for the 2 courses?

True this is a rumour network. I'll go with henra and 212 on this...impact down slope from final resting place with fwd speed. The vertical survival ability of a 139 is better than than.

Furia, that is not a 45 deg slope or the people wou;dn't be walking up it. 20, perhaps 25. CFIT into a mountain at speed looks exactly like this. Impact point in the snow at the bottom, debris field extending upslope.
Extensive crushing/impact damage to the front and minimal damage to the back.
Main Rotor contact with the snow would spin the aircraft around as the blades destroy themselves.
Not flying upslope at all. Flying straight and level, hence the extensive crushing.
Being a very early aircraft I'm not sure if this would have EGPWS/TAWS or not, it came out a bit later so might have had to have been a retrofit. Aser, do you know if it had EGPWS?
FDR will quickly give them the flight path of the aircraft.
Condolences to all those involved and their families. A sad day for SAR/EMS.

The tail, unlike the remains of the front part of the fuselage, is still intact and not restrained by friction with the ground. Therefore of course it's momentum is going to carry it ahead of rest of the fuselage.

Essentially, this is the same effect that you get when lifting off the throttle in a front-drive car when going down a steep icy hill. The front is restrained and the tail wants to over take it.

Attachment 1672

Still from the video downslope. The rescue team on scene are recovering some of the the poor crews remains from the impact point. I haven't done any accident course, just regrettably attended too many crashes.

White sky, white terrain no visible horizon...

Jesus.......

Always easy to comment on something knowing the outcome...but that was crap all over the place....

Take-Off is crap-something you can do when you are in good conditions, but this is neither a Cat-A departure nor a departure for white-out scenarios...

Then-difficult to see from the video (but again-knowing the outcome)-it looks like the weather is really crap...so maybe they were going to pull into the clouds on an "IFR"departure?
But then again-especially flying into IMC (if that´s what they intended to do) OR if you are flying in extreme weather, you set yourself up for a straight departure to avoid any vertigo and/or disorientation....

just my 2 ct

noooby, I don't remember about the egpws/taws in that aircraft, too many years ago since I flew it... I am getting old and they could have installed it afterwards.
I am with 212man about the accident in U.K., it was the first thing that came to my mind when I saw the picture of this accident.
Sadly it seems "just another" CFIT. :-(

40 isn't old! ;)

Absolutely (but not in the US). Need the SPIFR Kit (which is essentially a map holder)

Is there technical or operational reasons to have a virtually all white livery for a mountain rescue helicopter?


Mickjoebill

It was probably painted in the SASEMAR colours so a quick white respray to get it out of that before a proper job on it in the future.

Isn't this EMS, not SAR?


And yes, white is not clever in land SAR conditions. I can also tell you that finding white aircraft wreckage in mist and snow (or mountains with quartz outcrops) is not easy.

Looked like it was on flotation skis at least. The standard AW139 avionics wouldn't be my choice for VFR mountain weather flying, just an iPad with a map and elevation information is already an improvement. Might have had something better installed but generally public service helicopters cinched by budgets rarely do. I see EGPWS mentioned, but would be of little value unless IMC - in mountain VFR weather you already know you are close to the ground, slow, eyes out and the EGPWS is just an irritation unless you are using it like a second rate map trying to find a valley route.

Takeoff looked ok, didn't linger to try create a snowball, didn't go off in a direction he didn't need to trying to comply with some performance standard. Got away downwind without any performance problems. Weather was what you get in the mountains in winter, like 212man said "blameless".

Don't know the experience of the pilots, if they had done winter mountain stuff before like Swiss/Austrian/Italian operators in the Alps. That becomes an operational control issue - matching the equipment and crews to a challenging environment.

Tragic loss of life. Why so many people on board for a skier with a bum leg?

also...and why launch in those conditions for a skier with a bum leg. Dunno. I better shut.t.f.up before I get told to shut.t.f.up

1 pilot, 1 doctor, 1 winch operator, 1 injured, 2 rescuers that were working on the hotel avalanche going back down.