Two helicopters involved in fatal Argentinean mid-air
 

At least ten killed after two helicopters filming TV show in Argentina collide

The images appear to show an AStar: La Rioja State Government operates a single AS350 B3 (/H125...), while the Gobierno de la Provincia de Santiago del Estero operates an AS350 B3 (/H125), EC145, Bell 206 and Bell 407.

What is the altitude at the location?
More here...
Three French sports personalities die in Argentina helicopter crash - BBC News

Ten ...:{

Local Tv station, TN, with stills prior to accident.
Also names of the victims.

http://vod.tn.com.ar/vod/tn/tn/2015/.../playlist.m3u8

Realy bad news...:sad:
The LIDAR System from AW sould be instaled on all aircraft, il will help to save life...
Obstacle Proximity Lidar System - DETAIL - AgustaWestland

Terrible accident - looks like possible disorientation in dust if it was immediately after take off from the site pictured.

crab

French TV currently quoting eyewitnesses saying the accident occurred just after take-off, but to be fair no speculation as to cause.

As stated in mickjoebill's link three high profile French sporting personalities killed so it's been the main item on all broadcast media this morning...five other French nationals also lost (TV team) plus two Argentinian pilots.

http://www.france24.com/fr/20150310-...uffat-vastine/

No dust :(

Video: así fue el accidente de helicópteros en La Rioja | Tragedia aérea en La Rioja - Infobae

What are we seeing at 15s into the footage flying towards us?

Looks like birds in the tree - spooked by the downdraft.

Maybe one flew the wrong way & became FOD for the lower machine?

As stated, at about 15s in to video.

Formation take off, one hit tree tops?, ...


http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/y...na-heli1_1.png




http://i783.photobucket.com/albums/y...na-heli2_1.png

Looks like they got too close and had a midaircollision.

Very Sad, RIP

French TV are now showing the same footage but better quality than the internet feeds above, though not HD...

From that footage it appears to me that there's no significant dust, the helicopters are a considerable distance both beyond and above the trees and also well clear of any birds seen in the footage.

Brief Loss of Situational Awareness
 

Watching the video several times, it looks like both helicopters were flying normally without any obvious faults. A flock of birds rises from the trees but all appear to be heading away from the aircraft. The nearest helicopter appears to commence a turn to the left and impacts the further helicopter which continued to travel in a more or less straight line until the impact. If the pilot in the nearest helicopter was flying in the right hand seat, there is the possibility that he couldn't see the other helicopter before commencing to turn. Looks like it may just be a case of a brief loss of situational awareness possibly compounded by the passengers and film crew looking for the best angles to film.

Imho, lookng from about the 10 sec point, it is fairly windy and the aircraft appear to be some way from the tree that the birds emerge from.
The aircraft seem to be moving away from the camera, and the 'lower' ac appears to be climbing.
:(

GOULI

Only other thought I have, having seen the video now several times (stuck at French airport waiting for flight), is that it's really hard to work the aspect out - I wonder if there's also vertical element to this i.e. was it a case of one aircraft climbing into the underside of the higher one?

Anyhow that's enough speculation from me.

If it were a briefed formation, it looks like the #2 climbed into the lead.
Failure to maintain separation by the lower, rearward helicopter, who obviously had the responsibility to do so.

A very tragic and unnecessary loss of life....:(

Shocking and totally unnecessary.

Very sad, I was hoping the dust might have been some mitigation but it would appear not.

Argentinian helicopter
 

I'm a television director who has often used helicopters in filming, including air to air. The director's job is to get the best shots possible, and often this means getting as close as possible. This conflicts with a helicopter pilot's job, which is to fly as required while making sure everyone is completely safe. BBC News - French sports stars killed in Argentina crash

Fox, when I used to teach helicopter formation, wing was "stepped up" from lead.
:{
RIP, very sad.

Lonewolf,

Totally agree, second aircraft always either above or laterally offset from the lead.

Unfortunately this looks like a camera 'sweep' shot.

Edited to add: Many years ago a very experienced examiner warned me during my training that photography and filming would get me into the most trouble trying to get 'that shot' and always to take extra care during photo shoots. Very wise advice indeed.

Very sad. Condolences to all.

kilfeder:
It may be the directors job "to get the best shoots in the air by getting as close as possible" but this CANNOT "conflict with the pilot's job" whose primary and over riding responsibility is to ensure safety of flight.

Therein lies a recurring problem with helicopter filming GT. The helicopter company want the prestigious contract that gives them media exposure so they try to accommodate the wishes of the producers. If this involves close formation flying then that is what they will push for. Unless the pilots are assertive, that pressure results in rushed, unbriefed formation flying by pilots who have little experience of it.

I am not suggesting that is what happened in this case but I have seen it time and time again.

It will be interesting to see what was being recorded by any cameras on board.

Just use a longer lens.

From current evidence it is not possible to determine if they were shooting air to air from an open door.
Whilst it would not be unusual, we can't be sure yet if they were manouvering under the direction of the camera crew to perform for the ground or cockpit cameras.

French TV, amongst others, sometimes installs the front left seat backwards, when occupied this restricts the pilot view to the left.

(Outside of war zones) it is very rare for camera crew to be killed on the ground, for instance just one fatality in a decade in the usa. Yet under the stewardship of a highly regulated industry and usually flown by highly experienced mature commercial pilots we lose crew, year in year out shooting aerials.

The most common denominator in aerial filming accidents is not mechanical failure or genuine accident such as a bird strike, but pilots flying the shot directed by the TV crew.

In my view many of these accidents could have been avoided with more planning and better oversight of the flight.


In this case, two pilots, three celebrities, five foreign airborn tv crew, numerous cameras on the ground and in the air, two helicopters and up to three spoken languages, what could possibly go wrong?

If it transpires that either helicopter was under close direction of tv crew then the role of the production company in planning and managing the flight should be investigated. For their sake I hope one of the (reported) eighty TV crew was a designated aerial coordinator.

The production team have returned home, but with due respect and by means of illustrating the significant investment at play, had only a pilot, director and cameraman been killed the programm would have continued.

That's show business, where far too often, flights of fancy end in fatalities.


Mickjoebill

Longer lenses shake more and harder to focus.

Oddly enough, so too does the disintegration of the aircraft.

Pretty simple what happened.

Failed to maintain their own separation.

Blind spot to blind spot.

Higher machine can't see down and behind and the lower one cannot see up and left. Pilot in RH seat.

Sad operational fail.

PS Contrary to the statements preceding my guess is the tree is about 300 metres closer to the camera.

One eyewitness:
Moment helicopters carrying French Dropped stars smash into each other killing ten | Daily Mail Online

So perhaps the first helicopter had mechanical difficulty and the second ran into it. "Five metres between the two of them"? Unbelievably close.

This video seems sharper than others I have seen.

Having just seen the footage again on the news I am wondering if it was birds. Possibly debris from a blade strike with the tree?
The eye witness report reports loud noises which could have been a blade strike.
The natural reaction would have been a rapid move away from the strike which would have taken it directly into the other aircraft.
A tragic accident no doubt partially attributed to the pressure of the TV role and wanting it to "Look Good"!

Having just watched DR link I now don't think it was a blade strike.

The far a/c seems to be turning right as the near one veers left.

Let's hope more information will be forthcoming so that a similar incident can be avoided!

How very very sad. And unavoidable too.
IMO I observe the lower a/c being below, back and to the right of the higher a/c. It then climbs and banks into the overtaken a/c. This is a blind spot (albeit transiently) for the lower pilot.
Nothing whatsoever to do with smoke, wind or birds. I would wager a years salary that the lower pilot lost SA. :uhoh: RiP.

Some basic aerial filming info for the non aviators interested in this sad incident.

There is a still image that shows the aircraft with the striped tail, with its left rear door fully open whilst at 5ft agl, apparently on take off and just a few minutes before the crash.
This indicates a cameraman in the back left seat, ready to film out of the open door.
Back left door is obviously not ideal for pilot's situational awareness if he is flying from front right..but for those that don't known, a sliding door is not always fitted on both sides.

This aircraft did not have a sliding door on the right (pilot) side.

http://i1.mirror.co.uk/incoming/arti...pter-Crash.jpg
It is pictured to the right of the other aircraft (the one with skid basket) both at time of take off and when airborne so it is reasonable to assume they were shooting.

Another reason to shoot out the left side is that the direction of travel can't always be controlled. Continuity of screen direction often dictates the aircraft must always be heading in the same direction i.e. left to right. Combined with wind direction and position of sun, it means the left hand side is the best option 50% of the time.
However for "jump in and go" flights, using cameramen who have been filming on the ground then jump into the helicopter, there is not enough time nor information to figure out which side is best.
Such flights that occupy a small time portion of a long shooting day, can be terribly pressured for pilot, director and cameramen, especially if the crew are running late.


I see something different... the higher aircraft seems to bank left into the path of the other aircraft, I reckon the (slightly) lower aircraft could have climbed maybe 50ft? in the two seconds before impact (use the tree as a datum point) Perhaps the plan was that the higher aircraft (filming out left door?) was to fly slightly ahead then over the subject aircraft? or in an attempt to shoot a tracking shot, the higher craft crept too close and the lower pilot didn't get out of the way in time and there was a miscommunication between the cameraman and pilots as to relative positions.

Hard to imagine that in the preceding 20 seconds that lower pilot was not aware of the others position? Whereas the higher aircraft would have been partially blind especially if camera crew were leaning into the open rear door and whoever was in the front seat also probably shooting or taking stills and blocking the view out of the left front.
(note it is not 100% clear yet which helicopter had the tv crew)

The higher aircraft appears to slow down, but this is the optical effect of the turn in my view.
Hard to be sure.

Generally the good form is that the subject aircraft stays straight and level and the camera ship manoeuvres around it.

Due to the high profile of some of those who perished and regardless of the cause, I hope that the unique risks of aerial filming will be bought to the fore and identified as an inherent risk that should be mitigated.

The crew who were killed were pilots Juan Carlos Castillo and Roberto Abate, Brice Gilbert (cameraman) Laurent Sbasnik (director), Lucy Mei-Dalby (journalist), Volodya Guinard (project manager) and Edouard Gilles (sound engineer)

Brice leaves behind his wife of two years and son of two months.


Mickjoebill

That's sad reading, mickjoebill.

And shooting for (another stupid?) reality. Called "Dropped".

This.

A tragic and unnecessary loss of life of talented people seeking profit from the dumbing down of Western civilization.

Sometimes the world really does seem a depressing place.

Agreed. A terrible tragedy which could have been avoided.

Unfortunately, I also fear the backlash will be against helicopter operations and filming and not against the concept of reality TV.

I guess your're not familiar with cameras, so:
- You have lots of light, so stop down the camera, making focus less sensitive
- Turn on the "truck mode" stabilisation on the lens. You have a stabilised lens, right ?
- Shoot 4kP60 and stabilise more in post [production]

Alternatively:
- Make your shooting budget cover legal costs for dead talent, crew, and replacement talent/crew/helicopters
- Make sure the relevant jurisdictions don't open you to wearing an orange suit for a few years.