EASA working Single Pilot Ops until 65
 

Gents,

We have been told under EASA we will be able to fly single pilot ops public transport until the grand old age of 65.

Am surprised this has n't been mentioned here or did I miss something?

Assuming this isn't April 1st - Who told you?

Our esteemed Training Captain, he wouldn't joke about something this serious.

Can your esteemed Training Captain provide a supporting reference?

And I was looking forward to getting out at 60 !!!

And you still can - if you wish to?!!

No commercial flying over the age of 60 as single pilot ..



Definition of "Commercial Air Transport":

You can still do:

-sightseeing trips
-Dropping parachutes
-Ferry flights
-maintenance flights
-fire fighting
-SAR flights
-sling load etc…(everything not considered "CAT", so you can do Aerial work and non-CAT or General Aviation flights)…

Unfortunately, i only got this document in German….
http://www.svfb.ch/media/45-00_abgre...071204_lek.pdf

@Brill: heard the same rumor.
If so :ok:, I'm looking forward to it.

Maybe same chief pilot ?

Rumors...
 

I was told, the CAA UK would consider only scheduled flights as commercial air transport with regards to FCL.065 but i could not find any reference on their website (and as scheduled flights are usually operated MP this does not make much sense anyway). :hmm:

So that would exclude HEMS in GB from Rule60? Would be nice but should also be valid for the rest of EASA land!

skadi

Expected to come into force on 8th April 2015
Source: Civil Aviation Authority INFORMATION NOTICE Number: IN–2014/188

Am i the only one failing to see the connection here?


:=

Come on Brill, you started this thread - where is the proof?
Can your esteemed training captain not provide a link to something official?
This matter has huge implications for many who use this site and all of my colleagues so some clarification would be appreciated.

@hueyracer
Exactly my point. Probably only a rumour re/ helicopters. Likewise the rumour I mentioned concerning CAT meaning scheduled flights only under FCL.065

The only official document (I found) is what I quoted.

Not so much interpretation in EASA:


Flight Standards | EASA

So if you´re not flying cargo or pax….you´re safe……which means ferry flights, maintenance flights….observation flights, power line checks…..

The link in german i posted above states that-as far as German CAA is concerned-spraying and other "cargo"-like flights are exempt as well…..i haven´t found an english page stating this...

........Police Operations are State Activity and are exempt........

The document is in german but as it refers to Art. 100 LFV, it is probably from FOCA (Swiss CAA).

There are definitely discussions going on for a long time why, a pilot should not be allowed to fly CAT SP as long as he seems to be fit, i.e. holding a class I medical.

My personal point of view is: There will be an amendment by 8 April 2015. Imagine what happens if HEMS operators point out that they can not guarantee service after that date without an amendment to FCL.065 or an exemption (according to article 14 (4) of regulation EU 216/2008). And, as such an exemption can not be limited to HEMS only (where is the difference to other CAT operations...), this issue will be solved for CAT in general.

Sorry, we have been looking for the reference today but in the limited time haven't found reference.

We know this was in an official letter.


BHAB has been mentioned.


Won't be in the office for a week now after which I shall ask said esteemed captain to elaborate.


I thought he can't be the only one who knows this hence my thread on here.

Nerd mode on
brill, it hasn't been BHAB for a while now, it is the BHA
Nerd mode off!

Sloppy, in ICAO and EASA rules Police Operations are State Activity. The ANO classifies UK police aviation as a public transport operation.

And the ANO can be amended...

....as it has been on many occasions. As it stands at the moment, UK police aviation is PT������

And the reason for that is because the cops that are carried are Fee Paying. Their constabularies pay for the use of said choppers even if they own it themselves. The TFO's are public transport categorised.

If what Brill says is true it will be an enormous step change in the right direction and people like Uncle Ian's efforts may not have been in vain.
It will safeguard the employ of many current practitioners - whose expertise will benefit the industry. [I know someone will now say it will delay new entries coming on line].
You'd better be sure about making such an enormous OP Brill - or standby to lose all credibility :rolleyes:

The question is-how can they (aka the government or EASA) justify this rule with EU law, where everyone has to be treated equally when it comes to religion, race, or age?

And if it is "the law"-why doesn´t the government has to pay for the pilots that cannot continue working from the age of 60 until they reach retirement age?

NPA 2014-29 (A) issued on the 17-12-14 and open for comments until 17-3-15.

on page 36 of 253 it has the exact same wording as hueyracer quoted in post #7.

I think someone somewhere has read "shall not" backwards, unfortunately.

Don't get too carried away boys. Extract from a recent email sent by a very reliable source at the CAA:

"For example, Germany has a 12 month exemption in force against the age 60 limit for single pilot mountain rescue helicopter operations to allow time for an operator to recruit younger pilots..............
This is a solution to a particular transition issue and using an exemption in this way is consistent with the regulations."

clarification
 

How can you do sightseeing, SAR, and parachuting dropping all with no pax on board? These are all excluded as well over 60. All you're left with is ferry, maintenance, and long-lining.

delete "mountain" in the sentence above, the excemption was granted for the German HEMS operators til 9.April 2016, together with additional mandatory medical examinations.
Heard rumours, that the austrian HEMS operators will get another 3 years of excemption, also with additional medical examinations for the older chaps.

skadi

Because its not classified as Commercial Air Transport!

skadi

Since when has sight seeing/tours not been public transport in EASA land?

Then the German HEMS operators are liars! (when saying they cannot get qualified pilots)…


I (along with several other pilots) have been applying since 2007….more than just exceeding their requirements….
ATPL, IR, MEIR, FI, TRI, FE, TRE, HEMS experience, SAR, hoist, NVG-you name it……together with more than 4000 hours…

You know what i got?
A reply saying "Thanks for your application, but we´re currently not recruiting!"…….:ugh:

[Sarcasm ON]
Who in this business is not (as long as it suits)?
[Sarcasm OFF]

:suspect:

The FOCA in Switzerland applied for an exemption according to article 14 of the basic regulation which was granted by EASA.

The LBA in Germany did also apply for an exemption but it seems they did not do their homework as good as FOCA. The exemption was not granted. However, EASA asked the LBA for a correction of the application. EASA even advised the LBA to do a copy/paste of the swiss application which would then result in an approval of such an exemption giving many pilots the opportunity to continue their job.

The LBA - in Person Mr. Uwe Dehning, Head of Department L - decided not to do so.

We know the outcome.

:ugh:

If this business as a whole had a lobby, we would not even discuss this issue. For the time being, HEMS operators in germany bought some time. Imagine what happens if you had a (admittedly polemical) headline in the SUN like "Air rescue hangs in the balance" and HEMS operators in Europe decided to announce to cease operation just for a week (i know there are most likely implications due to breach of contract) to bring some attention to this subject. The annoucement alone would give politicians some food for thought.

I thought I would re-invigorate this thread after I noticed this little snippet in the latest CAA Information Notice regarding latest EASA developments (2015-039 if you're interested)!

You should get around a bit. My EASA ATPL(H) public transport validity expired when I was 65. So I went to Australia and got an Oz ATPL(H) when I was 65 and a bit. Then China said I had to get a Chinese licence so I got a Chinese ATPL(H) when I was 66. I retired shortly before my 69th birthday but only because a job in Australia didn't materialise.

It must be a sod working in the EU.

Cheek! i do get around. Only this week I've been as far as Stafford in one direction and Benson in the other! Harrumph😀😉 and I've a few years to go yet until 60😗

What happened to the provision of JAR OPS 3 stating it is not applicable to mil, customs, police, SAR, parachute, fire fighting and aerial work flights ? Has this not been taken over into EU regulations ?

Another option for the 60+ pilots is flight instruction, since this is not even considered as commercial flight.

Hate to tell you guys that aerial work will now require an AOC, now what type EASA hasn't stated, only come about in the past couple of weeks. I have no idea if that will effect pilot age as it will be part of SPO which is due in 2017, but .......

Hello Hughes.
I suspect it won't affect aerial work. The age 60single pilot rule is specific to Public Transport Ops, not helicopter flying generally. There is some logic there, I just haven't quite determined where it is!

My aerial work/ part.SPO employer has had an AOC for a while now. Works well, CAA FOI appears content with what he sees and I'm certainly delighted that I get to actually operate (ie hands on controls for up to 5 hours/day, as opposed to watching a student do it (arguably better than I'll ever be able)). You can see my age from the ever-updating box on the left-hand side; age 60 is no barrier in this job. Fortunately for me, Handy, a complete inability to understand logic also fails to hold me back! (I do agree with you, though)

OAP Pilots
 

Logic ... in aviation?

As a few pps will know, I'm still flying around the country and a few overseas areas ... Europe, Africa and USA ... on sales demonstrations, flying instruction and flying display work. Last month I qualified for the Class One OAP medical and plan to participate in the next WHC in August.

BUT ... I've been banned from public transport flying now for the last 23 years! I often wonder who should reimburse me for 23 years of lost income. I know ... heaven helps those etc. OAPs unite I say! Dennis K.

Constitutionality
 

Given that we have recurring flight and medical tests to check the suitability of a pilot for a given task, the introduction of age as an overriding factor smacks of discrimination.

Discrimination based on age (alone), so-called "agism", is unlawful in most countries, and any law that enshrines such discrimination could be challenged in the Constitutional Court.