Used to drink in the Clutha Vaults years ago. Always a packed pub (even at 11am on a Tuesday morning:} )

Still no word on fatalities but I see all 3 of Glasgow's main hospitals have taken people in relation to the crash.:suspect:

News media in Australia are reporting a number of fatalities - at least 3, with multiple numbers of injured.

Police helicopter crashes in Glasgow pub, fatalities confirmed - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Three feared dead in Glasgow chopper crash

Why on earth do the BBC use such people as Chris Yates for comments on aviation incidents. When interviewed this morning he said that the blade visible sticking out of the roof was the helicopter's tail rotor! On a 135t2!!!!!:ugh:

At least six people have died and 32 have been injured after a police helicopter crashed into a pub in Glasgow, Sky sources say.

Glasgow Helicopter Crash: At Least Six Dead

Well there is a fair amount of cross-over in Police Aviation. Most police helicopter pilots are former AAC.

How long might it take for rotors to stop turning after a reasonable successful autorotative touchdown? Account on radio from a bar occupants was something to the effect of (sorry I did not note the exact words) "the band stopping playing in response to some event, the audience joking that "the band had brought the roof down", but occupants not seeing it as a major event, *the band then re-starting playing* and then the major building collapse with smoke/dust, etc". If the rotors had been at a very low energy state at the moment of impact it seems perhaps surprising that the impact was not severe enough to trigger an immediate building collapse, or at least cause a situation where the folk inside the bar immediately saw an urgent need to get out?

Stu, wondering why they autorotate. In my experience with ec135, there is no need to autorotate if one engine got a problem. There could be something else or more going on. I am sure the investigators will find a detailed reason for this accident.

Sad news.

Just seen Chris Yates (aviation analyst )on TV says awaiting the black box to determine what happened ????

Twins still require autorotational capability, fuel related issues being just one example which could affect continued powered flight but there are numerous additional scenarios which may force a twin into autorotation.

Sad to hear of another helicopter accident.

I understood one eye-witness to say that "the rotors weren't spinning". This suggests that it was not autorotating, which throws suspicion on the main gearbox.

Interesting report from Editor of Scottish Sun who witnessed the descent. Can't help but think this could have been a whole lot worse but for a fairly hard landing followed very shortly after by a roof collapse. That junction is well covered by CCTV so I've no doubt the events will be well documented.

Gordon Smart, editor of the Sun's Scottish edition, saw the crash from a multi-storey car park nearby.

He told Sky News: "I thought it was a plane that was going to crash. I looked up at the sky and I could see the helicopter falling, tumbling ... and then there was an eerie silence for the last part of the fall.

"But the thing that was disturbing and shocking was there was no explosion. I couldn't understand why a helicopter would fall from that height and not explode. To see the angle, the speed and the trajectory of the fall ... it was a horrific sight."

Glasgow Helicopter Crash: At Least Six Dead

It does seem particularly unfortunate that if the aircraft was out of control it crashed onto a single storey, flat-roofed building (although Glasgow does abound with pubs of this construction). Does seem to suggest that it might well have been a last minute choice for an emergency landing. But, like a lot of those spouting on tv, what the hell do I know?

Press briefing scheduled round 1000 local.

One of the more impressive witnesses spoke of the helicopter dropping out of the sky - therefore not under control.
Is it true there was no smell of fuel? And why no fire - compared to that recent tragic incident in London?

If there was no post-crash fire, then maybe there was not much fuel left in the tanks ? Just my 2 cents of unsubstantiated speculation.

Did notice on the one brief shot of the Fenestron that there appeared to be no rotational damage to the blades/tips, as with the visible main rotor.

Possibly - but anioher scenario could have been fenestron drive/shaft failure

I have seen the latest TV pictures showing the tail boom and fenestron, the break up indicates to me a very heavy impact on the roof.

Sky tv reports efforts seem to be scaling back from a rescue operation to a recovery operation.

Official statement by Scottish Police downgraded earlier report of fatalities (initially cited as being six by Sky News) to one person.

The damage doesn't seem consistent with the rotors being stationary prior to impact. That would have resulted in "brick mode" and no relatively big chunks of recognisable structure.

More likely I think an emergency landing on the roof (maybe auto, maybe not) as the street was probably full of people and it's pretty hard to deliberately land on people. Then rotors stopped or nearly so. Then the roof under the skids collapsed, with the tail boom getting folded up as the bit of roof under it hadn't collapsed. Running out of fuel seems unlikely, more likely a yaw control problem or the like.

really bad but at least there was no fire- maybe shutoff before the impact??

Mick Stability and Heli Comparator appear to have the most plausible explanations given the evidence visible so far.

Why does everybody assume no fire equals no fuel?!

I have seen accidents with no fire and full fuel, and an airframe completely consumed by fire after impact with very little fuel.

Note: There is ALWAYS fuel of some quantity!

There are other, better, places to land very near to this pub.

Must have been very hard pushed for time to choose this location.

It never surprises me to see the amount of nonsense that some people type on a public forum. You make your lack if knowledge quite obvious.

Press release by Bond:

BBC Pictures of site
 

Attached link to detail pictures of site and recovery effort.

BBC News - In pictures: Glasgow pub helicopter crash

Surpassed only by the tripe sprouted by the "experts" on the BBC news coverage.

Have stopped watching the news as facts have dried up and we're getting speculation now. Will have to wait for official reports now.

learning
 

Actually one reason for posting comments is to learn. If you don't post you may not learn.

Thanks for the detail on fuel tanks.

It never fails to amaze me how much time some people spend trawling through internet forums looking for something to complain about, so that they can feel morally superior etc. It's simple, if you don't want speculation, don't read this thread until the AAIB report is out.

HeliComparator :D

A double engine failure due to fuel starvation is also not very reasonable on the 135. Beside the LOW FUEL Warning, which gives you at least 10min, both supplytanks are different in size, so one donk quits earlier in case of low fuel to give a little chance for SE landing.

Sean Maffett speaking sensibly on BBC World News right now - which is refreshing..

+1 for SM, first Aviation Expert I have seen for some time who talked sense.

Yes, was impressed with Sean Maffett.

For what it's worth (and this may of course not be accurate), one of the police on site this morning told me that prior to the accident, the 135 had been heading east along the river, rather than west on an approach to the pad.

Folks,
I found a post on Facebook confirming from a relative that the pilot ex military had perished in the accident. The name was published but out of respect I am withholding it.

Yates just been on Beeb radio 4 telling us how the pilot may have skilfully shut off the fuel to the engines, thereby reducing the fire risk!

Mmmmmm, rapid conclusion jump there then?

To those who believe no post-impact fire equals little or no fuel, l ask you to look at or recall the Kegworth wreckage pictures and think again?

FDR/CVR
 

According to the ANO 2009, Schedule 4, para5, any a/c over 2730kg should/must have equipment as specified in Scale SS, meaning either SS1 or SS3. As the EC135 is listed as having an all up of over 2800kg, should it not have an integrated FDR/CVR? Have the rules changed since the 2009 edition of the ANO with regard to the weights?
And he is totally aware of the EC135s extremely good safety record, a fact he has made known to Sky, BBC and STV.
bondu