HC,

Many Years ago the US FAA was convinced by an Airline that having to meet Over Water Survival Equipment Requirements on New York to San Juan, Puerto Rico passenger runs was un-needed as there had never been a ditching or any emergency that could have caused a ditching and the routing took the aircraft only about an hour offshore.

The FAA agreed, the Airlines removed all the Life Rafts and Jackets. That allowed them to top off with added passengers.

Two weeks later, a FE managed to shut down all three engines on a Boeing 727 by mis-managing the Fuel System. Fortunately, the Crew managed to figure out what had happened and were able to get the Engines re-started before hitting the Water.

Your kind of Logic, similar to the concept of "Very Remote Probability" can have some serious repercussions when the Holes line up on the proverbial Cheese.

HC

We've been here before. My view of safety is proactive not reactive. Just because it hasn't happened doesn't mean it won't. STASS has been used by the military on a few occasions and it has saved lives. The maritime military world isn't a great deal different to the North Sea. A ditched aircraft with a twisted frame, your door won't jettison, the aircraft rolls over, you have to get out of the cabin. Try doing that on one breath. I have used STASS and know that I would rather have it with the option to plan my escape. In the big scheme of things it doesn't cost a lot. For those who don't want to do the training or can't do it then they can carry on without it. Most objections to STASS centre around the training, but as it used to say on the poolside wall at Yeovilton, "self determination now!" One life saved is worth the investment.

If this can be done for a Pressurized Jet Aircraft....why not for a helicopter and make it a jettison able escape window as well. Time to think outside the box maybe?

EBACE: Fokker proposes giant window to Boeing Business Jets - 5/21/2014 - Flight Global

BB and cyclic. Of course one should address known possible survival issues following ditching, however one should also keep in mind a sense of priority. Surely it is far better to concentrate on issues that are known to have caused fatalities and likely to do so in the future, rather than put efforts into the "remotely possible". But instead of concentrating on pilot competence issues, which seem to be a recurring theme in many loss of life accidents and "near misses", you are banging on about STASS. Is it just a smokescreen?

At least they are not banging on about side mounted floats.....:ugh:

Seems you are banging on about something that has never been fixed in the history of Aviation. Pilot's are not very clever people as they continue to kill themselves and other people while destroying aircraft in the same old tried and true methods.

Since we have had questionable success in avoiding the need for Life Saving equipment like Rafts, Jackets, Exposure Suits, Sarbe's, Epirbs, Jettisonable Windows and Doors, safety harnesses, In Floor and Exit Lighting, and all sorts of other useful gear......why not simply accept that Breathing Gear will also save Lives when that fateful day or night happens and add that bit of kit to the long list of improvements made so far?

Question for all

If it was your child/partner sitting in a non-window seat of a full machine would you prefer them to have a compressed air escape set including a demand valve, or a rebreather?

I would prefer them to have whatever gives them the best chance of escape. If that bit of kit happens to be a re-breather, then great. If it's compressed air, then that's great too.

Norway differs with UK CAA answers.

Norway shuns UK offshore helicopter safety rule changes - Oil and Gas News

I do not think this article gives a good representation of the official Norwegian view. What has been said earlier is just that CAA-Norway does not agree 100% with everything in the report. And that the actions and recommendations need to be reviewed before a decision is made on what to do.

The apparent lack of full support and enthusiasm for the actions may be because:

1. some have already been implemented or tried before
2. some are not relevant
3. some are probably too complicated/huge for a small authority like the Norwegian to take on
4. slightly different views with respect to where the highest risks are and how to treat them
5. last but not least, there is no feeling of urgency on the Norwegian side. Could it be that the lack of accidents has given us a (false) sense of safety - and that a touch of complacency has set in?

Transport Committee - Second Report - Offshore helicopter safety

House of Commons - Offshore helicopter safety - Transport Committee

A full independent public inquiry into offshore helicopter safety, prompted amongst other things by a failure to acknowledge the role commercial pressure plays in impacting safety related decisions.

How long have they got?

Roll out of Cat A Emergency Breathing System (EBS).
 

Contrary to what Kawijet posed on 5 april on this thread the current re-breathers are NOT Cat. A.

I personnally already questioned very much if one would be able to apply the current re-breathers under water and clear the water out of the submerged mouthpiece/valve while pushing the valve to transfer to re-breathing. This would spill quite an amount of air from your lungs which would therefore not be available for re-breathing. (I know the unit itself also "adds" 4 liters air from a presurized bottle but overall i think you would lose too much air by clearing).
At least this has never been teached to me this way during training. During my last refresher, I did got some water in my re-breather and I can tell you that is quite frightening if you gulp water instead of air!
Not to mention that during my first training I did not gently squeezed the red knob but pulled the complete valve from the mouth piece.
Leaving me with an forced open mouth (by the mouth piece) in an ditching helitrainer!
That was due to a non secured hose connection on the trainer re-breather but I imagine one could pull it off under real stress as well.

Anyway the solution has been approved, announced and is now being rolled-out:
From Helihub 15th July:
EASA and UK CAA approve world?s first Category A Emergency Breathing System | Helihub - the Helicopter Industry Data Source

Note worthy is the sequence of roll out for the UK as announced by Survitec: Sumburgh, Norwich, Aberdeen.:confused:

Today the company I work for (we are 3rd party contractors) got an announcement from Dutch Shell (NAM):
New Cat A Emergency Breather System will be implented for flights from Den Helder 1st September 2014! So even earlier as in the UK!!

1,5 hour dry training sessions will be made available at Den Helder Airport from 28th of July only for the month August.
These training sessions are Free (course paid by Shell)
Hours presumably to be paid by contractors as it is outside check-in hours.
2 to 4 training sessions a day to match departing or arriving rotating crews.
Non rotational crew to be planned-in where possible.:confused::confused::confused:
From 1st September only training in the certified training centra,
From another source I already heared that they will NOT be able to meet the start of training for next Monday July 28th.

Questions on which I hope to get answers soon:
- Only Shell on Dutch side? (I haven't heared from my other clients/
O&G companies yet and the training session roster which I have seen
seems to match only Shell/NAM flights from Den Helder)
- When will training be available at training centres and what will be training costs?

Cleverly arranged during Dutch holiday month August.
How should I get al my guys through training?
We have little offshore work coming month, but the more for september!

In the announcement was a link to a very clear video from Survitec.:D
http://www.stepchangeinsafety.net/newsevents/news/news.cfm/newsid/162

I wonder how they will fill in the remaining 70 minutes of the training session.:confused:

SLB

SLB - have you tried contacting NOGEPA for advice? NOGEPA

I suspect that the UK training-providers will be maxed-out at the moment as they try to process those of us bound for the UKCS.

I'll let you know on Monday. If the fog lifts.

Diginagain,

Still a lot of fog since one month ago?
I did my training last week at Den Helder airport.
Actually quite a good training.

• Verbal instruction in Dutch supported by power point presentation.
• Video (Same as linked on this thread before) (in English)
• Dry training

With 11 participants we were ready in 1 hour. We all think we are generally better off with this new CA-EBS.

One disadvantage not mentioned in the video but believed to be a point by all the participants:

• The possibility of un-observed loss of air when the purge button is slightly pushed. This might happen in a cramped heli when you fall asleep.

It was hilarious that most were not afraid that it would happen to them if there would be a ditch. They were more worried that their relief colleague coming on board with the helicopter would fall asleep and empty the bottle and that they would be forced to stay on board the platform with no spare life-jackets or spare bottle available!!:O

I already had put the question out to NOGEPA before you suggested.
They have responded:
For the moment it is only NAM/SHELL (with DanCopter) who have chosen to make the change for all Dutch NAM platforms.
They expected that Wintershall and Centrica might be the first ones to follow as they too have some operations which are flown from both sides. But they use CHC and NHV. I believe the operators who use CHC have some kind of helicopter sharing agreement which makes it more difficult to change over?
Nothing formal and no signs that Dutch government will take over this to be enforced on Dutch side as well.

The courses are now also given by Falck and STC-KNRM in Netherlands for € 75.

Hats-off for such a quick implementation.
When I wrote my previous post on this thread I did not know that training in the UK was already in full swing. I thought they only just had the new approved device. In mean time about the number of the core crews of UK personnel has had the course.

http://www.offshoreenergytoday.com/26100-offshore-workers-trained-with-emergency-breathing-system/

How much contractors/non-core-crew would there be in UK? 50.000-75.000??
Should be do-able with on-going training rate.

SLB

Apologies, got fogged-in and only got the course done last Sunday evening. Scheduled for two hours, the 18 of us were done and dusted in 50 minutes, including admin and wash-up. No dramas; a short video presentation, intro to the kit, a bit of famil with pre-use checks, and finished with donning and using the second-stage.

Loss of capability due to inadvertant purging was covered - "Don't do it!" was the response. We'll see. Given where the second-stage sits it shouldn't be an issue. More worrying would be pax pressing the purge just to check that it works!

OGUK figures show around 32,000 offshore in the UK. http://www.oilandgasuk.co.uk/employment.cfm

So in the Netherlands and UK your EBS training can be completed in a classroom without in-water pool training?

As an experienced diver, the upside down experience in cold water without a mask or nose clips was a surprise that I'm thankful I got to try in a controlled environment.

Doesn't Cougar provide all passengers with diving masks? Are the NS pilots going to stash one in their flight bags?

We'll be given wet-training with the new EBS and lifejacket when we next do our survival refresher course. There simply isn't the capacity to get everyone dunked with the new kit within the timescale we've been given.

Which really shows that it's a knee jerk reaction which has been ill thought out and poorly planned.

As a non-diver who trained to use the HEED/STASS and found it a very uncomfortable learning process, I cannot for one moment imagine anyone using a SCUBA-type appartus for the first time, in anger, following a classroom briefing!

Despite being a very experienced Diver but not current at the time of the training in the pool....it was not exactly a piece of cake. No big deal just dropping down and breathing while up right but upside down with legs hung over the side of the pool edge was a bit of a trick to cope with.

Now as to trying that without being an experienced Diver, for real in cold water, following a hard impact....well at least your odds are improved but how much really?

In Pool training is a must!

I doubt that anyone would disagree. However, we've become so risk-averse that the in-pool training environment has become rather benign.

Pool training

Nobody is allowed offshore without proper pool training.
At least in the Netherlands. We have done away with 72 hour excemptions.
The dry trainer CA-EBS is an add-on onto the rebreather training covered in Bosiet training.

SLB

But the EBS "training" is not very realistic, all it really shows you is how to put the thing on, and deploy it.

I did my last survival refresher in September 2013, therefore it will be Sep 2017 before I get a chance to try the EBS in an underwater environment (although I don't intend to still be offshore by that time!). That is a long time, and there are many of my offshore colleagues in a similar situation.

Memo out today advising that a number of jackets have been returned post-flight with depleted bottles. Contents will be checked at offshore departure-point and if there are empty cylinders and no spares employees will be delayed offshore until they can be provided with a full cylinder.

Folks, may I ask how is the new EBS system working out. Apparently the 'mouth piece and nose clip' needs a bit of a re-design. I was speaking to someone who did the training and he said that the oval mouth piece is hard to grip and the nose clip gave him a piercing pain if he moved his head.

I just saw this on the internet https://falckebs.wordpress.com/ and the mouth piece looks a much better design. I thought that there was only one unit type available, but maybe I was wrong.

Lines have to be purged before going into the boot so bottles will deplete - also, purging makes a great noise so helps to pass the time.......
Different degree of servicing and those whom have it in SNS seem happy enough. I suggest any niggles with nose clip being designed to suit maximum shapes will soon be forgotten when under water!
Atleast they have EBS - unlike the crew who will still suffer from 'cold shock' regardless of how big their escape door is ;-)

Applicability of UK CAA Safety Directive
 

The latest safety directive from the UK CAA is published here: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/33/SafetyDirective2014002.pdf

According to the SD it is applicable to "All AOC Helicopter Operators Conducting Offshore Operations".
Does any of you know how the UK CAA plan to enforce this applicability after EASA HOFO regulation is implemented next year? According to CRD 2013-10, the new rule will replace all national regulation, and from my understanding it will also invalid this SD.

After the new regulation is implemented, operators from all EU states will be welcome to engage in UK offshore heli ops, and these will be under the oversight from the authority in their respective home states. I do not see how UK CAA can add any additional requirements like this in the future.

There were nearly 120 fatalities in the UK sector in 40 years. In justifying their directives on EBS and window size the CAA seem to have implied around 30% were people trapped in capsized helicopters.

The real percentage turns out to have been just 9%, 11 people, with just 4 in the last 20 years.

CAP1145 Helicopter Water Impact Survivability Statistics - A Critique

The difference? The CAA included pax incapacitated on impact who were unable to escape and 20 tourists on the way to the Sillies.

Good to see the operators doing some operationally directed research: Helicopter industry collaborates on eyetracking research to enhance flight safety

Is this link that you meant? Helicopter industry collaborates on eye-tracking research to enhance flight safety | Vertical Magazine - The Pulse of the Helicopter Industry

Yes. Thanks.

Quite. My personal view is that (sadly) the CAA may rue the day they enforced these devices :(

A derivative of the widely used military STASS system called HEUBA was introduced on the Canadian East Coast were it is being / has been used by passengers from Conoco-Phillips, Hibernian (an ExxonMobil JV), Husky, Suncor, Shell and Statoil for over 5 years.

Correct, Zalt. This was in response to the Cougar accident and in my opinion, a good one. More expensive training, but vastly superior to those horrific re-breathers used elsewhere. I've used EBS in the military and commercially since 1989 and feel quite uncomfortable over cold water (or warm, for that matter) without it. The pax seem to appreciate it as well.

Why? If Canada and the Military are using them would it not reflect badly on CAA (and the oil companies) 'next time'.

Firstly, they are not 'using' them, they are 'wearing' them, which is an entirely different thing. Secondly, the training is superior and not classroom based.

The idea that somebody who is not a sports diver, will take a mouthpiece and purge it and then start breathing underwater for the first time, ever, in a real emergency, seems very far fetched. I say that as someone that has never used SCUBA gear and has done HEED/STASS training.

Having consulted with a world-leading expert on water survival at a SAR symposium a few years ago - the mouthpiece needs to be in place before you enter the water since the human 'gasp-reflex' will likely render you unable to purge the mouthpiece if you wait until after water entry and the colder the water, the worse it gets.

Purging upside down is an art and needs to be practised in a pool not a classroom.

I was under the impression in Canada a SWET chair is used to practice HEUBA deployment underwater at a 'safe', shallow depth but in the UK the oil industry training body has removed all EBS HUET runs from their CA-EBS standard harving the total HUET runs too. Considering the AAIB have already queried the training for the earlier rebreathers in an interim Sumburgh report one can only hope they opine on EBS training in their final report.