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-   -   AS332L2 Ditching off Shetland: 23rd August 2013 (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/522069-as332l2-ditching-off-shetland-23rd-august-2013-a.html)

Outwest 31st Aug 2013 21:33


I've never been a fan of the S92 cabin from an evacuation point of view, but accept that it is a much more passenger friendly environment. Not quite as good as the S61 however!

The best suggestion so far was the one from SASless to go back to amphibious helicopters!
They had it right 50 years ago it seems :ok:

SASless 31st Aug 2013 22:05

If we took the 61 airframe, added 92 Avionics, 53 running gear and engines....put in a plug to stretch her a few feet....would we have a winner?

HeliComparator 31st Aug 2013 22:22

No




And I have to add some text to make it postable.

Harry the Hun 31st Aug 2013 22:36


Originally Posted by SASless (Post 8023699)
If we took the 61 airframe, added 92 Avionics, 53 running gear and engines....put in a plug to stretch her a few feet....would we have a winner?

Take S-61's Airframe, Carsons Rotors, NH-90s Engines and Xmsns, FBW and AFCS, 225s FLI and 189s Avionics, combine that with the reliability of a Mi-8 and ready is the perfect helicopter.
Fit in the HMSD and Pilot sight unit of Tiger, ready is your perfect SAR Bird.

SASless 31st Aug 2013 22:41

I am surprised SK did not try to put out a civilianized CH-53D with some modern technology and updated engines.

For that matter....why did the 101 never take hold in the civvies market?

Pappa Smurf 31st Aug 2013 23:02

Seeing there are "underwater emergency breathing apparatus"on sale why don't all passengers carry them.
First read about them on tuna boat flying and someone carried one with him in case he went for an unexpected swim.
Seems they are good for 30 breaths or a couple of minutes.

Harry the Hun 31st Aug 2013 23:05

AS332L2 Ditching off Shetland: 23rd August 2013
 
For A, they would have to re-certify the thing against FAR-29 (too expensive)
For B, most probably competing models were more apealing to the investors. Three donks suck a lot.

industry insider 1st Sep 2013 00:49

The S-92 "rig approach" goes around automatically if the pilot does not intervene to carry out a landing. The original concept was, if it all starts to go wrong, just let go and the aircraft will perform a GA at the pre determined pilot selected minimum. The original paper resulted from the BLUN accident in 2006. The final approach speed is GS predicated if I remember.

batboy1970 1st Sep 2013 01:06

Apologies for not reading every post as this may have been asked already but has it been reported if any of the pax deployed rebreather and if it was effective or was the whole thing just to quick with there being no brace warning given, point raised is has the rebreather actually been used in anger ?? , personally I hated it on every foet I've done and found it so bloody diddly I'd likely take my chances without it

diginagain 1st Sep 2013 07:25


Originally Posted by check
I believe that we have a situation where the tail is wagging the dog. The SLF are attacking the wrong thing, they should be attacking their employers not the aircraft.

Valid observation, check. The snag as I see it is that the average offshore employee is so disconnected from the process as to make it almost impossible for them to comprehend the way these contracts are formulated. I will add, before anyone else does, 'or care'.

Boslandew 1st Sep 2013 08:13

CH53D
 
SASLESS

Prior to the introduction of the Chinook on the North Sea, the idea of a civilian CH53 was mooted. Sikorsky apparently said that if 25 were ordered they would undertake the work necessary for civil certification. We never heard anything officially but Jock Cameron, BAH boss toured the worlds operators trying to drum up the orders but there were insufficient takers. I spoke to a Sikorsky rep in ABZ, late seventies, and he said that the CH53 was the best aircraft they had ever built. Shortly after the Chinook deal was done. Great aircraft, I flew it for three years.

For what thats all worth.

cats_five 1st Sep 2013 08:38

Heard a piece on iPM (Radio 4) about a pilot who had an encounter with a waterspout in a SuperPuma - G-TIGB. This happened in 2003, the helicopter returned to service and left for Oz in 2007.

BBC Radio 4 - iPM, 31/08/2013

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/984...ter-spout.html

Air Accidents Investigation: AS332L 023429

GINFO Search Results | Aircraft Register | Operations and Safety

Heathrow Harry 1st Sep 2013 08:44

SASLess - the main reason the CH-53 and the 101 haven't made it is cost & complexity. The -53 is a great helicopter but it hasn't even sold to many airforces.

There are issues about having to upgrade the helidecks on rigs etc and you'd need a much longer contract than is usual to make economic sense. Range rather carrying capacity would be the main attraction - if people get way out (say the southern end of S Falklands Basin) then they would be attractive - but if you are only drilling 3-4 wells.................

Dragoon52 1st Sep 2013 09:58

Pilot Breather
 
Our company just introduced the breather less than 6 months ago. Slightly bulky but good to have.:D

Ray Joe Czech 1st Sep 2013 10:20

From Sunday Times
 
John Taylor, from Unite union, said workers were concerned about helicopter design. “They’re worried about seating, particularly at the rear where the windows are smaller. The concern is that the further back you are, the more difficult it can be to exit quickly.”

Mechta 1st Sep 2013 10:57

As we appear to be onto hypothetical helicopters now; for ultimate passenger safety, if a helicopter such as an S-64 Skycrane was used, and passengers travelled in a purpose-made detachable freefall lifeboat suspended underneath, then the hazards of passenger evacuation, risk of drowning/hypothermia, need for immersion suits/liferafts etc. would all be avoided.
Possibly not the most comfortable way to travel, but probably safer than trying to float a helicopter in the North Sea with the weight of engines, gearboxes and rotors above one's head.

industry insider 1st Sep 2013 10:59

G-TIGB ex G-BJXC S/N 2023 was the first Bristow 332L "Tiger" Its first client was Britoil and its regular run was the Thistle A using the Murchison as an alternate. It was one of the aircraft which had the short lived toilet on board, oh joy when that got used!

Now in Australia as VH BWJ with 36000+ hours and soon heading to the scrappy.

diginagain 1st Sep 2013 11:50


Originally Posted by Ray Joe Czech
The concern is that the further back you are, the more difficult it can be to exit quickly.”

Rather a generalisation, I would suggest, although I can see that it may be correct in the SP-Class, where those seated in rows 1 and 2 have two additional exit-routes via the cockpit.

Anthony Supplebottom 1st Sep 2013 11:57


As we appear to be onto hypothetical helicopters now; for ultimate passenger safety, if a helicopter such as an S-64 Skycrane was used, and passengers travelled in a purpose-made detachable freefall lifeboat suspended underneath, then the hazards of passenger evacuation, risk of drowning/hypothermia, need for immersion suits/liferafts etc. would all be avoided.
Ha ha - - brilliant! :D You've probably just come up with the safest offshore helicopter of all time. The "suspended" lifeboat could also have a parachute an fulfill the safety concern of someone earlier on who asked if there was a way to slow down helicopter descent in case of emergency!

Probe to compare UK safety record in North Sea with other countries


Statistics uncovered by the Sunday Herald show Norwegian and UK offshore helicopters had similar fatality rates between the 1960s and 1990s. But in the last decade, the UK's record has worsened while Norway's has greatly improved.
Probe to compare UK safety record in North Sea with other countries | Herald Scotland

SASless 1st Sep 2013 12:03


Statistics uncovered by the Sunday Herald show Norwegian and UK offshore helicopters had similar fatality rates between the 1960s and 1990s. But in the last decade, the UK's record has worsened while Norway's has greatly improved.
Why is the question in each case....the UK getting worse....and the Norway rate improving.

I can remember too clearly some of the Helicopter Services S-61's winning Spindle Throwing contests.....was airborne in the Ekofisk when one of them happened....but that was in the mid-70's.


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