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R22 down near Ely, Cambs: Jan 2012
From a 'tweet' from Cambs Police, this article is up from the Cambridge Evening News...
Cambridge News | Latest News Headlines From Cambridge City & Cambridgeshire | National News By Cambridge News | Emergency services rush to 'fatal' helicopter crash Emergency services rush to 'fatal' helicopter crash Helicopter crash at Witchford Emergency services were today called to a helicopter crash. It is thought there has been one fatality in the crash. The fire service said they had been called to Lancaster Way in Witchford. A single, light helicopter crashed at the former airfield. Two crews from Ely are there and a rescue vehicle from Cambridge is on its way. They were called at 11.33am to reports of an accident close to a business park. A police spokeswoman said: "Police and emergency services are currently at the scene of a helicopter crash in Witchford near Ely. The force control room was called by a member of the public at just before 11.30am today (January 6). They reported seeing a helicopter go down in a field behind Lancaster Way Business Park. At least one person is known to have been in the aircraft, however, I have no details of injuries at this time. "A corden has been set up around the crash site but no roads have been closed." A Marshall Airport spokesman said the aircraft did not fly from the Cambridge area. He said it was thought to have been flying from Manston Airport in Kent to Fenland Airfield near Spalding. The helicopter was, he added, said to be a Robinson R22 two seater. Clare Blair, of Evergreens, Chesterton, said her daughter's partner Pat Masterson had been walking his dog on the airfield when the helicopter crashed. Mr Masterson and Mrs Blair's daughter Alexandra run the vilage stores in Stretham. She said: "Pat had been walking the dog on the airfield and the helicopter crashed right in front of them." Mrs Blair said Mr Masterson had called the emergency services from a nearby house and had tried to get the pilot out of the helicopter. |
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Very sad indeed, and it's gorgeous flying weather here today for the first time this year.
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Sad news indeed :( RIP.
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RIP poor guy. Do tend to drive past that area quite frequently albeit at weekends however not today.
Haven't check TAFs today but wondering what conditions like however down in Cambridge to the naked eye generally was blue sky sunny morning onwards to afternoon. Condolences to family and friends. |
sad indeed
Looks like quite an impact... MADY |
What a dreadful start to the year... :sad:
Doesn't look as though there was much forward speed on impact. |
Eye witness said it appeared to break in two and drop. His words, not mine.
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I wonder if that's the same witness who said it was black?
Re. '...the 'break in two...', the fuselage looks largely intact but I can't see the MR blades? |
doesn't look like there is any info on identity of the pilot yet, as the official reports say this will come only at least tomorrow
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My sincere condolences to family and colleagues.
A dreadful start to 2012. R.I.P. |
Very sad alright a god awful heavy impact and one in which a more than normal curiosity is raised,
to wit; Richard Dunk, from the Stockshop warehouse at Lancaster Way Business Park, said he was having lunch with a colleague when they "heard a bit of a bang". "I turned around and saw the helicopter coming down with a lot of smoke coming out of the back." The helicopter pilot had been talking as a matter of routine to our air traffic control as it passed Cambridge Airport." |
As always, a large pinch of salt is required until official reports are available - BBC Ceefax is currently quoting an "eye witness" as saying it was a black helicopter he saw crash!
A bad start to the year. |
Many helicopters, even white ones, appear 'black', when in flight at a reasonable distance, especially if the prominent light is behind it.
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Thanks for saving me the bother of pointing this out. Just because the observer saw it as a black helicopter does not negate the rest of what they saw.
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That's exactly why details should be taken with a pinch of salt until the official report is out...
:ugh: |
Waiting for reports....
In this case, it may be appropriate to wait for the official report, but I am very familiar with one crash where the report was forwarded to the authorities in a small Pacific nation over two years ago, and it has not been released yet. The frustration is that the report addresses an (at least superficially) similar crash. (Loud bang, parts seen to depart the aircraft, fire, blade located away from crash site.)
The significance is that the report advanced a novel explanation for why the blade failed and caused the crash, and IMHO it should be available for the investigators for this case, even if only to discount that cause for this event. Regards Blakmax |
Darn it..another Robbo
IMHO I believe most Ppruners viewing this thread (well those with Robbo experience/knowledge) will already have a pretty clear idea of what happened here... and I doubt that the AAIB will need assistance from afar to determine the cause. Another tragic loss nevertheless... RIP buddy
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Talkpedlar
...what do you mean? Must-bumping???
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The identity of the pilot has been made known via other channels so I expect the press will pick it up tomorrow (Monday).
RIP my friend, you were one of the real good guys. See you again. |
Helops - can't see where talkpedlar mentions 'mast-bumping' (maybe he removed it) but it is a condition that can occur in a teetering head helicopter when less than normal G is experienced.
A 'pushover' type manoeuvre, where the cyclic is moved quickly forward, can reduce the G to a point where the main rotor stops influencing the attitude of the fuselage and abnormal angles between the MR and the rotor mast can occur. In relatively benign situations this causes 'mast-bumping' but in extreme cases the MR can impact the tail boom with disastrous results. Not saying that is what happened in this case but it is a well-documented factor in some Robbie accidents. |
Can't see the main gear box or mast-Poor guy never knew what happened,RIP
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IMHO I believe most Ppruners viewing this thread (well those with Robbo experience/knowledge) will already have a pretty clear idea of what happened here Does the AAIB publish interim reports within a specified timeframe? |
Nope..
I haven't deleted or changed anything.. or mentioned mast-bumping....
Don't expect anything from the AAIB for 9-15 months but, although I carefully avoided speculation earlier, my own view..based on the reported "bang" and clear evidence of high vertical-speed impact, is that this may well be yet another mast-bumping tragedy... Please don't flame me... I was well versed in R22 operations and accident investigation. Again, RIP ol buddy. TP |
talkpedlar - based on the reported "bang" Cheers |
G-CHZN
This was my Dad's first helicopter that he bought just after he passed his test :/ such a shame :( had my first flight in Zulu-November :(
When he had it, there were no technical problems and he'd had it serviced too. RIP to the pilot, may he find peace. |
well im about to start the robbie safety course in california in a few hours and day one is all about crash reviews. il have a natter to them about this one. can someone please tell me what their suspicion is on this one rather than dilly dallying around. they may be totally wrong and thats why we have the aaib at hand but the im sure there are loads of people that will benefit from a stimulated debate.
another sad day for flying. rip. |
G-CHZN This was my Dad's first helicopter that he bought just after he passed his test :/ such a shame had my first flight in Zulu-November When he had it, there were no technical problems and he'd had it serviced too. RIP to the pilot, may he find peace. |
My condolences to the pilot.
I went to the safety course last year - good luck and it's well worth it. *If* the investigation rules out mechanical failure or maintenance issues, and *if* it is true that the mast and blades ended up separated from the main wreckage, then mast bumping would appear to leave a tell-tale set of marks on the bump stops and the rotor mast breaks in a relatively identifiable place. The rotor mast and blades would usually fall a distance from the fuselage. I used to check my 22/44 for marks on the bump stops before each flight, I think a lot of people do, it's not something one wants to see. Carb icing (or any other loss of engine performance) leading to rrpm loss, followed by failure to successfully enter autorotation and catastrophic rotor stall often chops the tail in a relatively identifiable point (I think it's the third sheet back from the tail rotor, plus the blades would cone up, but from recall of accident reports, I don't remember seeing reports where this caused the entire set of both blades to separate - Richard Mornington Sandford would probably be the UK expert on this stuff, and what the indicators are which they use to determine cause. The reports often seem open-ended, because a precise understanding of the start of the sequence of events simply cannot be established. And without investigative expertise and access to far more information than we have, only the experts will figure it out. It is a source of unease to me that most Robinson pilots have the low-g mast bumping issue rammed into us repeatedly, but it still appears to happen (whether in this incident or not) more than I'd like to see. I find it hard to believe that all the incidents where it happens can be attributed to poor pilot skills, but clearly events still play out in a way whereby reasonable pilots still end up in a fatality. This may only ever be cleared up when very lightweight and inexpensive data recorders become available for these small rotorcraft, Lafite. |
The problem with mast bumping is that once in a low G situation and if the aircraft rolls to the right, the instinct for a low time PPL is to apply left cyclic to correct the roll, instead of first re-loading the disc. I have seen reports where the top of the mast has sheared off due excessive bumping, meaning the rotor head, complete with the MR blades, separates itself from the aircraft. If the 'breaking in two' witness statement is accurate (and if the fuselage is as complete as it would seem to be in the photo), then one could be excused for thinking that was the likely cause.
However, the witnesses also said they saw "a lot of smoke coming out of the back". Even an unreliable witness would struggle to imagine such obvious evidence, so catastrophic engine failure and subsequent failure to do an auto might be more likely. Whatever, I'm sure the reason will be obvious to the AAIB by now. |
One of the good guys
Amen to that Andy, One of the best in every sense of the word and a real gentleman and total professional. A very sad week for the training world and so many friends. Let's hope we find out the reasons quickly. MB
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Watching From the start of Robinsons manufacture to now. The loss of the Hub & Blades from the R-22 during the mast bumps & blade delams, make for some nasty crashes recovered,The Main gear box has allways remained with the wrecked airframe this is the first from the pix taken where the mast & cowl is not shown,(Is it on the far side of view?) The tail is still attached so no normal blade strike, Fractured mast? Strange ,RIP.
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It goes without saying a very sad accident.
Whilst it would appear the identity of the pilot has been kept out of the press, do we know their experience/qualifications? Regards Pwrltd |
Whilst it would appear the identity of the pilot has been kept out of the press, do we know their experience/qualifications? Several thousand of hours on all manner of fixed wing. PPL(H) which he completed a few weeks before Christmas. |
great discussion some informative stuff even if we may all be proved wrong?? my question is, speculating it is mast bumping, how on earth could a standard cross country flight from a to b result in it?? i mean if he was doing low g manoevers over ridge lines i could understand. but on a cross country?? maybe as a fixie he nosed over hard to avoid something?? but boy it would have to be a hard dive??
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RIP to a fellow aviator - very close to a CFI(H)'s home that I know well - fortunately (selfishly) not him.
stringfellow - shame I am headed back to the UK tomorrow or could have had a beer and gone flying locally! Enjoy the course - who is taking it? Andy Mayes - I;m guessing you put fixed wing in bold for a reason (Robinson safety notices)? HTC |
now then crab a beer and a fly out would have been great, what a shame. tim tucker is running it he of the old 2.4 second throttle roll off with no collective response... must have very big balls, and/or small brain!!!!! seems a great course mind.
and as we summise a fellow aviator who had the curiosity to venture into the mysterious world of rotating parts is no longer with us. such a shame. |
Yeah it would - the flying first of course and mine's a rum :) Not sure how long you are in town for but if you can find someone local to take you flying go for it - totally different to flying in the UK. The low level LAX shoreline transition/downtown at night/etc. PM me if you want a recommendation for a school that can arrange it - no connection other than an acquaintance owns it and I have flown their ships a few times.
Tim is a great instructor/examiner - he did my private and commercial checkrides. His tales are worth a book on their own. The first time I did the safety course he taught it and it was by far the best of those I've done. Have you noticed how many of the accidents (shown on the course) are in the UK... Make the most of the chance to push the R22/44 to the absolute limits with the Robinson pilots - you won't get the chance (and probably wouldn't want to risk it) anywhere else. HTC How are the donuts/cakes/pastries? :) |
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