Olympic restrictions 2012
 

Up and running in Private Flying
http://www.pprune.org/private-flying...trictions.html

Direct link to the website

Primary airspace restrictions for south-east England

Helilanes look rather "closed"
Crossings for City and Heathrow look "closed" also

Olympic Size Disaster for helicopter industry?
 

I would encourage UK operators to have look at olympics.airspacesafety.com as soon as they can.

For those companies which have survived a prolonged recession and struggled with huge rises in CAA fees comes the final insult. To finally kill off the SE England helicopter charter industry they are closing all the VFR airspace in South East England for two months in the busiest part of the year in 2012.

I don't why it took so long to come up with a plan like this - my 5 year old could of done something as clever in 2 minutes with a crayon.

Oh my word, what a b*lls up.

No faxed plans?

So we have to use this site?

https://ts1.flightplanningonline.co.uk/index.html


Better hope they get it working by then.

When I clicked on "login" all I got was a file called "ats.xjnlp" downloaded to my desktop, which my computer didn't know what to do with.

I can see all this working out very well indeed!

This will prevent pax being picked up from private landing sites and delivered to Battersea due to the ridiculous requirement for screening at a suitably equipped facility.

Looks like the supposed fortunes to be made from the olympics for London based operators will be the exact opposite.

Perhaps the olympic committee might like to make some donations to the UK helicopter or aviation industry so it can keep going while they are here, not directly their fault but there are clearly some proper geniuses around who came up with this plan.

What a disaster in its current state.

I've seen a brief email from our local Satco and they were not consulted at all so this if it goes ahead will cause chaos for us next year.

What a nightmare

Just fly around with the transponder turned off, pretend you're a homebuilt microlight/autogyro etc.

I can see the South East flight schools having fun with this system.

Every website you go to has a "login" function that works fine on any computer, yet NATS have to do it differently. Great.

The NATS AFPEx interface is a website, but as soon as you want to actually do anything, it's a full blown Java app that you have to download each time you want to use it! Muchos megabytes... At least setting up the account takes less than 30 mins now :}.

Have I read this correctly? If I live (with my heli) within the restricted area, I'll have to file a flight plan every time I lift?!! Does NATS have the capacity to cope with the avalanche of flight plans it's going to receive and monitor?! This sounds suspiciously like some donkey behind a desk dreaming up an ill conceived plan, but like a lot of 'temporary' ideas, I can see this becoming normal practice for Heli-route traffic after the Olympics :\

Cack handed ill conceived amateurish and lazy approach to an issue.

You have to wonder why any population would want to host such an event, given that the impact on ordinary people and business is so detrimental. :ugh:

You might get to file your plan no gaurantee you will be given permission to lift and carry out your flight though. Also if they get overloaded you won't be going anywhere. Remember this is a huge event any unauthorised flying may involve you getting escorted or just shot of the sky by fast jets. Get practising your autos so you can get down quick. ;-)

You could have seen this coming.

A similarly awful 'plan' has been circulating in the towns around the venues hosting the games for 3 months now. In short [because it has nothing to do with aviation] the plan is that far from getting business from the proximity of an event [White Water events locally to here] the entrances have been moved [from the built up areas] and all attendees are being directed away from direct contact with the public in the locality. They are being bussed in from massive car parks on airfields [North Weald locally].

Add to that the proposed shut down of local public car parks [even to local shoppers] red route [no stopping] restrictions on the nearby routes and even a suggestion that such as street markets should be shut down for the duration you may see that this is not actually an attack on aviation but a whole way of life.

Whether the local authorities can actually turn this elephant around in 14months remains to be seen.

Since the authorities have decided to prevent the onshore hele charter industry from operating for the duration of the Olympics, the least they should do is refund all the AOC fees for the period.

I wonder how much of the onshore industry will remain by Autumn 2012? :sad:

Any news of operators' concerns? Any pilots wondering what might happen to their income for 2 months?

The last winter olympics in Vancouver/Whistler practically shut down or limited a lot of operations to most local companies and flying schools for I think it was about 3 months. I was trying to take my IFR at the time and pretty much gave up taking it locally. Some schools tried to move out of the restricted area but I think some just gave up all together. Helicopters companies took the worst of it. All flights had to have proper airport security and passenger manifest approved either 24 or 48 hrs in advance. If you deviated off flight plan the military will be on you fairly quick. So originally a lot of businesses had big plans to gain from the olympics not only aviation businesses when in fact a lot where far worse off with the olympics than with out. There were basically only 2 Heli companies that benefited from the olympics while the rest had pretty tough time to work locally. I am not sure if there was any compensation to local businesses but there should of been. Cost a lot to have aircraft sitting around plus the loss of business. Good Luck to all

well as far as the restricted area goes it may be a case of just go flying anyway or go bust depending on how easy it is to get a clearance, why not just have a phone number and ring in with the flight details and off you go but really who in their right mind thinks this whole thing will make the games any safer ????.................................

Rather than ranting on pprune with no response, why not rant on at Contact points

It may be wishful thinking but if enough people argue their case, perhaps 'they' might listen...

Below is what I emailed to them. I suggest everyone else does the same or something similiar

-----
Dear Sir,

I would like to complain about the 2012 airspace restrictions that have been proposed.

These restrictions will effectly ground all General Aviation VFR flights for two months and will seriously affect the businesses of flight schools and charter operations (especially Helicopter companies).

I would like to know why these draconian measures are necessary? General Aviation and onshore Helicopter Charter businesses have been suffering from increased regulation/AOC charges, high fuel charges and a recession, this "airspace lockdown" may be the final nail in the coffin for many businesses.

The proposals also state that all pilots will have to flight a flight plan via the NATS website during the entire Olympics period. This online service seems to be plagued with technical problems and will be even worse when more people are trying to use it.

I look forward to hearing your reply on these matters

Regards

Good evening guys ... so yes, the Olympic 'security' arrangements are with us and as oft noted here, they seem to have been dreamed up by a neighbour's cat. Our CAA are, I know, doing all they can, but the announced rules come directly from the security boffins at the Home Office. Offenders face a sure fire prosecution. As was said at a DA and DAE meeting yesterday, I doubt if the terrorists will be bothering to file flight plans or obligingly 'squawk' prior to getting airborne with a 500 pound GP bomb. Or something nastier.

What concerns me is getting that 'dig in the ribs' from a terrorist's Colt .45 with an urgent request to 'take me to London.' He/she will of course already have one's nearest and dearest abducted somewhere and on the phone for confirmation. Even a tiddly MD 500 will lift a 1,000 pounder which, suitably placed, will make a big enough bang to keep the media happy ... and a nasty dent in the Government's reputation. A few years ago, someone called it 'the soft underbelly of the City.

Not liking criticism without a constructive idea, and on the unlikely chance that someone in authority will read this, I'd suggest a network of 'special branch' armed guys need to be stationed out at the relevent GA airfields for the duration and forget all about flight plans and TPDRs. No aircraft gets airborne without a 'local' clearance from the good guys. OR shall we just let a few of the already struggling aviation businesses go bust. Six to eight weeks with little income should do it.

PS I'm wondering if we are to be 'shot down' by a Tornado at say 100 feet over our HP or Buck House?

Special Exemptions
 

According to the website certain identified airfields will be able to apply for Exemptions to the restrictions during the period. :rolleyes:

Anyone have any idea what those exemptions might entail and will they be on a per airfield basis or will each operator have to apply for the exemption? :confused:

As a side note the website appears to have crashed already! :D :ugh: :{

This blow to local helicopter operators appears to be yet another win for Osama Bin Laden, and the ability of governments to come up with the worst possible reactions to a changed security environment.

My hopes are that you are all able to raise enough of a counter to this that an accomodation may be made to allow you to keep operating and make provision for securing certified operators to keep doing what helicopters do.

Make sure the media know how much revenue you'll lose, how many jobs will be influenced (to include mechanics, etc) and so on.

Raise hell.

Best wishes.

Well I have emailed my concern/complaint.
Next I hope to appraise my MP.

Yupp website has crashed.

have just emailed my MP its dead easy and I suggest everyone does the same if we don't shout no one will hear us

DennisK

You're quite right, but does the CAA (Home office, whatever) believe that this measure going to stop them? If I was a terrorist, I could easily enter the London zone and be on the doorstep of the houses of parliament/Buckingham Palace, etc. in minutes. By the time the authorities even suspected something was going on, it'd be too late to do anything about it!

I think we should take it to Brussells - it's an infringement of our human rights!! :ok:

I am sure security will be very tight in the air and ground. I had to get a driving pass just to enter my neighbourhood by car and drive around town. And people not from the area where blocked from driving. And those of you who think a casual call for a flight plan a couple hours before a flight will work, I doubt it. Also any aircraft that does not have a flight plan i am sure will get intercepted well before it enters the restricted zone. Any Aircraft and passengers entering or leaving the zone will need to have been security screened the same as any major airport no mater where the flight originated. This is of course all speculation from the last winter games but I doubt things in the future summer games will be much different. The little guys should get together and be apart of the committee or figure some way to fight for some sort of compensation because you probably will be affected somehow.

Heres a little info on the airspace for the last games in Vancouver/Whistler landing fees where somewhere around $400-$600 at the tiny local Heliport. And i believe flight plan had to be approved 48 hours in advance determined by individual transponder codes for each flight. Whistler Heliport - 2010 Olympic Fees http://www.faa.gov/news/media/vancouvertfr.pdf

That's the point. There are lots of private owners and operators either already in the restricted zone or on the London zone boundary. The talk of concessions for those operators on or just outside the zone (Denham, White Waltham, Fairoaks, Biggin Hill, etc.), makes it even easier for a terrorist to do his deed. One could easily lift and be in central London before anyone had a chance to say 'scramble', so trying to prevent unauthorised access with a flight plan is futile. And very stupid.

TTB

I looked into it a little and it is very interesting when comparing the airspace restrictions from the last winter games to the upcoming summer games. What you say makes perfect sense now. It will be interesting to see what the final out come will be. Primary airspace restrictions for south-east England

I have been in touch with Peter Norton CE at BHA he is gathering feelings and info
the consolidated the response the better info@britishhelicopter association.org lets get this B******s stopedhttp://images.ibsrv.net/ibsrv/res/sr...cons/icon8.gif

Terrorists
 

I love the idea that someone thinks I could be intercepted before entering the London CTZ. Fairoaks is already in it! Flight time to the 'games' site circa 6-8 minutes from lift-off. (HP less) And a Typhoon/Tornado has about as much chance of intercepting me in an MD500 at 75 feet over London as flying to the moon ... unless the pilot is cleared to take out a few hundred civilians as a side issue. Is there anyone in Government security who has the slightest idea of where the aviation risk could actually be coming from. DRK

Anyone would think there was a volcanic eruption...

But seriously, hopefully this can be sorted or even more of us are going to be out of a job. :mad:

Pass your message
 

Hopefully the message may be getting through.

The Airspace Restrictions Website is back up and the guidance / notes have been rewritten with a much more concilliatory tone. Still time to make ourselves heard, get involved in the planning process and even to volunteer to spresd the word when the restrictions are legislated at the end of 2011.

Perhaps when you pass your message on to the CAA you should thank them for publishing the handy terrorist guide that is G-INFO.

Nice information about where to go to find a private owner, kidnap his/her family and then more nice info to allow you to reprogram the machine's transponder so that it matches that of, say, an air ambulance.

Led by donkeys. :ugh:

FB.

Based on what I saw in Canada last year you will be out of a job. The airspace is virtually shut down to anyone except police/military. The "process" for a private or commercial flight is so heinous, awkward and lengthy that everyone basically stopped flying for the duration of the Olympics. With a few exceptions all the corporate traffic landed in another country (US) and drove up. All the helicopter operators that banked on increased business during the Olympics and spooled up for it lost their shirts.

Good luck trying to change anything. Many here tried to no avail.

I have not yet had time yet to read fully all the information, but at first sight I am deeply disappointed that whilst the DfT and NATS appeared to understand the industry standpoint, the security aspects have (as was always inevitable) overridden what could have been achieved by a responsible on-shore helicopter industry: well practised at operating into or close to major sporting events.
Perhaps there is scope for damage-limitation.
On this occasion I don't think it's fair to blame the CAA, but the question must be asked of Government as to compensating operators who may be grounded by the restrictions.

Sadly, I think it is a mindset thing on the part of the authorities.

The same mindset that thinks that placing restricted zones around prisons will prevent hijacked helicopters from being used for taking scrotes from exercise yards. It is doing something (restricting law-abiding helicopters), but it will never prevent the thing they don't want to happen.

The last thing they will worry about is a few small companies and pilots, even though what they propose will have no significant risk-reducing effect on the terror threat.

I agree with others that this is nothing to do with the CAA. The situation is being dealt with far above them in the hierarchy, by the anti-terror absolutist camp. If only it were that simple.

If many of us spent a few minutes thinking about how terrorists could evade this "plan" we would see a number of ways of an attack avoiding detection. Probably best not to talk about them in an open forum though.

I was filling in the gen dec for Cheltenham when it struck me when was the last time you carried someone that might fit the terrorist stereo type ?? all the people I saw going in and out of the races where wealthy corporate types that love horse racing and making money why on earth would any of them do anything to harm it ? and if you think of the kind of people you fly about on a regular basis they are pretty much the same type, why all the attention on the people who have the most to lose if there was a terrorist attack.

I don't think its racist to say the effort would be better spent on road blocks on the m1 outside of Luton

The whole "terrorist" threat is nonsense. It's just scaremongering by the Government that wants to appear like it's doing something, and it also keeps the population fearful and easy to control.

Let's not forget you can drive an articulated lorry (full of anything you like) around Central London and up to the door of any major supermarket in the UK with virtually no checks/controls.


RAND report: Threat of homegrown jihadism heavily exaggerated, Zero U.S. civilians killed since 9/11 | loonwatch.com

I don't think we're giving away any trade secrets here! Even a moron terrorist could work out within a few seconds that if he learned to fly a helicopter, he could stuff it it to the gunwales with high explosive, lift from anywhere around the CTR and fly into a national monument/government building/state residence, etc. within minutes!! He/she might even turn the radio off to avoid all those nasty people from Special shouting at him :eek:

What's the process for objecting? Surely, there must be a better way of convincing the government that although security is of paramount importance, this approach is just plain STUPID

Funny old world. Sydney Olympics (pre WTC/9-11) was relatively easy to come to terms with.

Melbourne Commonwealth Games had a fairly large lock down, but wasn't overly inconvenient. A few hours of a large no fly zone during the opening, with Her Majesty doing the honours, but I don't know what checks were done on the four of us flying around at night over the MCG: no one asked me, I just got in and flew while the Mil Security helicopters had to hold 10nm away!!

The hallowed name of 'Security' overrides common sense and good planning these days, with no amount of money wasted on pet theories. I sympathise with all south England operators faced with this lot of rubbish :(

I understand that for the 2004 Olympics in Athens, the whole of the VFR route structure for the Athens TMA was closed with the exception of one route allowing arrival and departure from the east, which was about 45 miles from the city. All VFR traffic was banned with the exception of those helicopters engaged in broadcasting or relaying for specific events and they had to carry a member of the security services as chaperone.
The Greeks deployed batteries of Patriot missiles at strategic locations to cater for the determined rogue aircraft.
I bumped into the crew of one S76 operating in and around Athens at the time and they were only able to achieve their tasking by operating full IFR, STARS and SIDs et al.
Looks like the beaches will be crowded with helicoppter pilots during the Olympics.

This thread has so far been about terrorists. I would hope the very expensive spooks and the masses of intrusive data gathering / CCTVs that invade our lives will pick these guys up well before they get in a helicopter. Hopefully every MI5 agent has the intelligence to realise if a suspect is taking helicopter lessons there may be a risk.

Surely the much greater risk is a rated pilot who develops mental illness, or a grudge, or simply gets depression and decides to go out with a bang. And I just cant see what is to stop that person filing his flightplan in advance, even assuming he wanted to commit his atrocity without breaching these regulations.

Or indeed what is to stop the terrorist or pilot with bipolar disease doing his dastardly deed the day before the regulations come into force. So why do we have this shut down, which is unjustified and lacking any benefit at any time, for so long?