PPRuNe Forums - The future of UK SAR, post SAR-H

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Gap? Lets hope its not too wide?:confused: Wonder how much they want to spend filling the unneccessary hole created by the SAR- H debacle? I hear its for up to 5 years again, and we will know who will take it by next Spring. Expect CHC are regretting offering those nice 92s up for the Irish contract :ugh:

'Gap SAR', 'Son of SAR'...all the same. I've heard that both the MoD nor the MCA will be involved in the main SARH operation next time round. The former because there isn't the political desire for it and the latter because they don't have the expertise nor infrastructure to run it.
My take: a civil consortium, owned and run by a private company, monitored by a DfT quango.........now where have I heard that before:ugh:

TC ... Foresight becomes you!:) Choo Choo....

It all seems to have gone very quiet, any news on the future of SAR?

Interim SAR to be resolved first, so the start date of April 2012 can be achieved.
Then this month sometime, a statement from the DfT updating the public on the "situation" regarding Son of SAR. Basically still trying to achieve the old solution in a tighter time frame.

Thanks for the update.

There are 5 down-selected bidders for gapSAR currently beavering away trying to get their detailed bids sorted by 7 Oct. Tallsar can give more detail as he is involved but he is probably way too busy at the moment.

:eek:TC - I will give any bidder more than the shirt off my back if anyone can sort the potential Gap SAR contract by April 2012! Me thinks it might come into being a little later than that.... Please check with your local CHC rep!:E

July 2013 for the commencement of G-SAR I believe...

Nothing really new to what has been posted above. Details emerge of UK Gap SAR requirement | Shephard Group

Quote:

Details have emerged about the UK government's interim search and rescue requirement, following the collapse of the £6 billion SAR-H project earlier this year.
The new programme, which has been dubbed the Gap Search and Rescue Helicopter Service and became open to tender in July, was launched as an emergency measure in order to ensure continuity of service following the abandonment of the SAR-H programme after irregularities were found in the bidding process.
Shephard understands that the new programme is currently being bid for by five consortia.
The Department for Transport (DfT) - the tendering department – has stated that the contract will be for six years with the option to extend a further 12 months. The department hopes to have the Gap SAR service operational in the spring of 2012 with the total cost of the contract estimated to be between £200 and £235 million.
According to Gap SAR tendering documents, the DfT is offering bidders the opportunity to make three bids: one that covers the two northern bases, one that covers the south bases and a bid that covers both regions. This may open the possibility of different providers operating the Scottish and south coast operations.
Currently, SAR helicopter operations are carried out by the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force flying the Westland Sea King, and by the Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) using a mix of S-92s and AW139s, provided by CHC under an interim contract operating from Portland, Lee on Solent, Shetland and the Isle of Lewis. That contract is due to end in the first half of 2012.
Under previous plans, the helicopters involved in the interim contract would have been replaced by a new single-type fleet purchased by preferred SAR-H bidder Soteria – a consortium of CHC, Thales and the Royal Bank of Scotland (RBS). The service would have begun operations when the interim contract ended, and was due to be fully in place by 2016, when the Sea King is planned to be retired.
Soteria's behaviour during SAR-H still remains the subject of an inquiry by military police.

Tony Osborne, London

Exactly what I said earlier. However Tallstar and others have suggested that this start date for INTERIM SAR (continuation of the existing one), in the absence of 5 helos now sold off to Ireland will be nigh on impossible to achieve before 2013.

My question(s) then:

Will/does the interim SAR contract have anything to do with SARH? [Legally/operatsionally]

Does the Interim SAR contract have any effect on the out of service date of the SeaKing?

Can the new and revived (when it arrives) SARH contract be slotted into the OLD SARH time frame (especially if the number of bases drops to 7 or 8)?

Espresso and TC.... I would always recommend a degree of scepticism over press articles, even from august helo friendly sources such as the Shepphard Press!:mad: That article is inaccurate on several key aspects.

What is for sure is that the new government are taking a very dynamic attitude to SAR provision and other related matters. No one knows how those dice are about to fall as yet.

We do know from the June ministerial statement that another announcement is due soon....

As for GAP SAR... Well it definitely will not be in place by mid 2012. GAP is about sustaining the 4 MCA/ HMCG SAR flights following on from the present Interim contract. Therefore, it is not contractually related by definition to anything to do with the Mil Sea King SAR units.

Where did you get 7-8 bases from? ....I dont think so.... I think too it is not appropriate to discuss whatever happens for the longer twrm as though it will be a direct replacement of SAR-H, and squeezed into a shorter timeframe. I think this Coalition has made it clear that its averse to PFI contracts and you only have to read the papers today about NHS Trust PFI debt issues to see how right that view seems to be. No doubt we will hear how the new contract is to be funded in due course. The new timeframe we have yet to discover, except we know the MoD aims to remove all Sea Kings by mid 2016. Can it be done? I am sure most of the obvious bidders would say yes, particularly as many of them regarded the SAR-H transition period as too lengthy and thefore more costly than neccessary.:ugh:;)

Will the existing interim contract just be extended (as I believe it can be) until GAP SAR can take over or have those S92s been promised to Ireland on a specific date? Can the Irish Govt actually afford the new CHC SAR contract?

Until our Govt makes its statements we won't know if there will be any military involvement in 'son of SARH' (reservists anyone?) but it seems clear that extending the Sea King OSD beyond 2016 is an expensive non-starter.

DfT have to get their heads round the enormity of the task they are taking on in respect of UK SAR and will have to work out how to fund it - especially if PFI is deemed politically and financially untenable.

At least four companies are competing for a contract to run part of the UK's search and rescue helicopter service.
Firms had until Wednesday to submit bids for a new five-year contract to run four coastguard rescue services in Scotland and southern England.
Bids have been submitted by Bond, Bristow, a consortium including British International Helicopters and CHC, the current coastguard contractors.
The government is to announce which has been successful by the end of the year.
The preferred bidder will take over the operation of helicopter rescue services out of bases in Portland in Dorset, Lee-on-the-Solent in Hampshire, Sumburgh in the Shetland Islands, and Stornoway in the Outer Hebrides from June 2013.
The UK's search and rescue service is currently operated out of four Maritime and Coastguard Agency (MCA) bases, six RAF ones and two Navy ones.
All four coastguard bases are run by CHC, but its contract expires next year.
The Department for Transport needed to find a contractor to run the service after plans for a private consortium to take over all 12 UK helicopter rescue bases were shelved earlier this year.
The Soteria consortium did not get the contract after admitting it had access to commercially sensitive information.
Ministry of Defence police are investigating how the information came to be in the group's possession.
This new contract is expected to plug a gap until a private finance deal is reached for the takeover of the entire search and rescue service.

a consortium including British International Helicopters and CHC,

I think it's just the way you have written the post but, for clarity, BIH is in a different consortium from CHC.:ok:

It is a cut and paste job from BBC NEWS UK.

BBC News - Firms vie to run UK search and rescue service

Will be interesting to see if there are any novel ideas on offer.

Thats a direct copy and paste from BBC Scotland news website, may be the way it has been written.

Will the existing interim contract just be extended (as I believe it can be) until GAP SAR can take over or have those S92s been promised to Ireland on a specific date? Can the Irish Govt actually afford the new CHC SAR contract?

I believe the option of the one year extension on the current UK contract has been taken. The first 92 for the new Irish contract is due around early December with some crews already rated or being rated. Word on the street is the rest will follow in 2013.

So.....potentially 4 companies going for the bid which would be a temp contract until something is drawn up for the long term, possibly starting in 2016.

As I was someone who got a bit worked up last time, I think I'll hold fire a bit this time round. Although I do have 4 sheets of paper in my hand already...;)

Gap/Interim SAR starts 2013 ends 2018. One yearpast its original planned date.
Long SAR (ex SARH) is supposed to pick up where the SeaKing left off: 2016.
mmmmm?