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still needing a job!
You and one or two others.:hmm: 3D |
Iain dear old chap...i hope you dont count your rounds in the way you count your previous jobs! I dont think my sight and mathematics are failing me...but surely there are only 4.....so maybe it was only 3 out of 4 you meant...I am begining to think UK SAR procurement is becoming like the proposed badger cull.....we all know we need it....but hey lets hope its not 12 years before we see some action.....oops....its already 10!:ugh::rolleyes::)
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Sven.
Quote.. but if you need a SAR pilot, or a bloke who worked on the Cyprus COMR bids, the interim CG SAR contract and SAR-H itself, I'm still available. Is'nt that why we are in this situation now.:confused: Or was that comment tongue in cheek?? I do hope so.:) 3D |
Have any criminal charges or sanctions been applied to the companies and individuals involved in this abhorrent fiasco that occurred during the SAR-H bid process? It appears that an obscene amount of both tax-payers, and competing bidders, money was lost in an apparent bid fixing conspiracy of a scale and standard more typically found in corrupt third world dictatorships, rather than the UK.
It would certainly make me feel much better to know that the guilty are being investigated and that appropriate action is being taken to remedy the original faults and ensure a fair bid for the next phase. Is there an investigation actually occurring at this time? Is there jail time in anyone's future? :eek: |
Looking forward rather than backwards, what would be the chances of doing something 'joint' with the Irish here? The SAR helicopters of both countries are always in and out of each others Search and Rescue Regions anyway.
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Not sure that would work out with the irish having just let a 10 year contract. I think the politics of having two government departments involved are massive, let alone having two countries involved. But then again, if we are going to put British fast jet pilots onto French aircraft carriers I guess anything is possible!!!
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If the UK Government wants to pick up the tab on the Irish contract for a year or two, I'm sure the so-called Irish Government would be happy to have the new Sikorskys based in the UK for a while. It would save us a lot of money, and given the way they are shutting down hospitals here at the moment, a lack of SAR cover in Ireland wouldn't be too much of a concern to them. If only we hadn't sold the Alouette IIIs so quickly. :E
500 Fan. |
Crabs working for a living down the FI.
House of Commons - Hansard - 11th July 2011: Search and Rescue Interim Contract The Secretary of State for Transport (Mr Philip Hammond): On 8 February I informed the House that, owing to irregularities in the bidding process, the Government had concluded that it was not appropriate to proceed with the previously planned joint MOD/DFT PFI procurement for future search and rescue capability. The investigation into the circumstances that led to the cancellation of that procurement is ongoing. Work is also under way to identify the optimum procurement options for the long-term provision of search and rescue helicopter capability for the UK. However, as the existing Maritime and Coastguard Agency search and rescue helicopter contract that provides services at Portland, Lee on Solent, Shetland and the Isle of Lewis is set to expire, I wish to inform the House of my plans to ensure that search and rescue helicopter services from these locations continue uninterrupted until new long-term arrangements are in place. To ensure the continuity of services from these locations, the Department for Transport will shortly run a competition to procure an interim service for a period of up to five years. This contract will be similar to the arrangements that are currently in place for these bases and are working well. The contract will be open to all interested bidders able to offer a service that fully meets our requirements and ensures the safety of the public and seafarers. These arrangements will ensure that search and rescue helicopter services are maintained while the range of options in relation to the long-term future provision of such services are being fully considered. The Royal Air Force and Royal Navy will continue to provide coverage from their search and rescue bases as at present, while I consider the options for the long-term provision of search and rescue helicopter capability. I will inform the House later in the year of the Government’s intentions for the longer term. The procurement strategy we adopt for the longer term will seek to ensure that the Ministry of Defence is able to complete its previously announced intention to withdraw its Sea Kings from service in 2016. What it requires is a winning bidder to come up with a shed load of 'new' cabs over say a 2 year period and a training school to boot. The training is the difficult bit (finding bums on seats in sufficient quantities that are both qualified and available). My hunch is that the DfT (if they still had possession of the poisoned chalice) will remove the mil in its entirety and hope (ha) that sufficient numbers PVR to join the new service. Statement due 2012 (early), infrastructure in place by mid to late 2013 - training complete by early to mid 2016: Roberts your mothers brother :D |
TC -as far as i can see from your comments, there is apparently little sense in running 2 competitions in such a short timescale...by definition it is likely that tax payers money will end up being spent inefficiently at a time we can least afford it. It will be used to pay for a 5 year Interm 2 contract which in the end may have no direct relationship as far as resources and aircraft are concerned with what comes after for the longer term. Cant help feel a lot of additional time and cash is about to be wasted due to some distinct risk averse decision making somewhere!:ugh: goodness knows
the SAR-H solution and assessment must still give them the most pertinent clues to be able to get on with it quicker!:mad::eek: |
I was hoping this would all be sorted out before the Euro collasped, oh well:(
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Was hearing a rumour that Bristows think they are in with a good chance!
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Wonder is that the same Bristow who told their employees that given CHC were preferred bidder last year for SARH that they would be awarded the Irish contract by default.....
Or the same Bristow who indicated that there was an opportunity earlier this year to takeover the present UK SAR contract at short notice before year end..... Or the same Bristow who were recently convinced they were the front runner for the Aberdeen based Total O&G contract..... :suspect: |
I'm sure that both Bond and CHC will be claiming that they are front-runners as well.
Anyone like to speculate as to what the solution might be for the S Coast? Would CHC bid with S92s or 139s for the S Coast? |
Just to add fuel to the fire..........
From the Daily Mail Brussels launches plan to scupper UK Coastguard By GLEN OWEN 17th July 2011 Britain's coastguards would be replaced by a new pan- European fleet under 'harmonisation' plans which would see their life-saving work being taken over by an EU coastguard corps emblazoned with the Brussels logo. The news comes just days after Transport Secretary Philip Hammond performed a partial U-turn on cutting the number of currently operating Coastguard centres from 19 to eight, with just three remaining open 24 hours a day. After an outcry over the safety risks, he told the Commons last week that 11 centres will remain, all of which will be operational 24 hours a day. Under the Brussels plan, which will be voted on by the European Parliament in October, an EU Coastguard will be created to 'effectively combat current or future dangers at sea such as terrorism, piracy and trafficking'. If approved, it would then be put before EU member countries for ratification. Trevor Coleman, MEP for the South West of England, who uncovered the proposals, said: 'A European Coastguard service would contribute, we were told, towards the single European state "we dream of" and that "member states need to contribute to these structures and relinquish some of their power." 'No one spoke of local knowledge or the use of volunteer Coastwatch personnel.' Partial U-turn: An outcry forced Philip Hammond, the Transport Secretary, to reverse Coastguard station cuts UKIP leader and South East England MEP Nigel Farage said: 'We've already had our fishing rights taken away from us. Wanting us to relinquish control of our own marine borders simply must be taken off the agenda at the earliest possible opportunity. 'We've already seen the EU embassies take hold, and seen the EU try to take over defence. And immigration has been a disaster for years because of European rules'. A spokesman for the European Parliament said: 'Once it is approved by the Parliament as a whole, it will be forwarded to the Commission, Council and Member States. The Commission then may come up with legislative proposals or take measures based on the content of the report.' Tory Shipping Minister Mike Penning said the proposals would be resisted by the UK Government. He added: 'A European Coastguard is not a concept that the UK would support. Her Majesty's Coastguard has a long and proud history and has a worldwide reputation for excellence. |
I'm going to put my head above the trench first!
Search and Rescue should not recognise International Boundaries. I know the MCA does many things other than SAR but I personally have no issue with a European Coastguard. The individual nations all work from the same manuals (IAMSAR) and they spend considerable time and money every year on joint exercises and workshops to try and harmonise their plans and procedures. My Licence says JAA and my Flight Plans go to Eurocontrol. Now if we could just get the CAA abolished with the introduction of EASA.......:hmm: |
EU Coastguard to fight terror, piracy And trafficking........ Surely this is the domain of the military..?
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The comments from hansard should be read for what they do not say. The quote states that the procurement strategy will allow the MOD to still meet it's aspiration to withdraw it's Seakings in 2016. It does not say that they will not then be replaced with a new buy,and for SAR to stay Mil. Which a little birdie (an MP) tells me is currently being looked at. Read the Hansard statement again, it is very cleverly worded...does not say SAR will be civvy, and does not say Seaking won't be replaced in the Mil SAR role.
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If the contract identified that the Seakings would be replaced with the S92, and CHC were already in the process of procuring the ac, can't the mil take up where CHC failed?
The precedent has already been made with the COMR ac used by 84 Sqn, and I am told that it works very well. Therefore, rather than going back through the bidding process again, just replicate that contract and retain mil crews and save a stack of money, plus various other PR benefits of keeping the capability military. But more importantly, we can paint the ac yellow!!!! SIMPLES:E |
SAR S92
They would look a lot better in Dark Blue
:} |
The investigation into the circumstances that led to the cancellation of that procurement is ongoing. |
They would look a lot better in Dark Blue |
The only things that look better in dark blue are Wrens:)
If anyone wants to see how not to run a SAR setup then see the CHC operation out of Stanley for the oil rigs. Only because 2 ex-RN SAR guys were employed is there any semblance of professionalism but that is because of their efforts, not the company's. The original plan was to have the aircraft engineer act as the winchop and lower a basket to the survivors!!! Bear in mind this is for an opeartion in the South Atlantic where sea state 6 is normal and the sea temp is plus 5 at the moment. Fortunately the ex-RN chaps have begged borrowed and stolen (not really stolen) sufficent safety and role equipment from UK SAR contacts to at least provide a winchop and winchman combo who have a chance of actually rescuing survivors - at least by day because their aircraft has no auto-hover or rad-alt hold!!! Now even this would be almost forgiveable if they hadn't been operating the rig shuttle for several months before the SAR capability became a reality (which was only a couple of weeks ago). So, in summary, a professional helicopter operator gets a lucrative contract to provide rig shuttles and SAR cover and tries to do it as cheaply and minimally as possible - surely not the attitude required to run UKSAR! |
because 2 ex-RN SAR guys were employed |
you missed the BHL CG, Jigsaw and GFS bit....... |
As deplorable as the company-proposed response might have been, they will only have been providing what the customer required. If the customer only wants a big hook dangling under a Bell 47, and only offers enough money to pay for that, then a contractor wouldn't be either likely or able to provide an S-92 or EC225 with all the bells, whistles and SAR-experienced crews. The fault would lie particularly with those who decided on what was required in the first place...unless, of course, the Bell 47 was genuinely sufficient for the customer's requirement.
Besides, with an RAF SAR unit just down the road, why pay for an all-weather(ish), day & night capability? Louis |
Iron - so you think therefore it is OK to put oil workers lives at risk (because that is what is happening) because it is only a 1 year contract:ugh:
Please define 'limited SAR' - you can either rescue people or you can't - you would seem to define it as pretending to be able to do the job in order to get paid without actually having any of the required equipment, training or personnel. Is this really the reality of civil SAR and if so who is regulating it? The rigs are over 200nm away from Mount Pleasant so, with the best will in the world, at night or in poor weather we won't get to them for 3 hours or so - even if anyone hears their mayday. Their 'limited SAR' aircraft doesn't chase the ferry aircraft so there would be a 2 hour delay by day if they ditched at the rig. Such delays might be acceptable in the relatively benign conditions of the N Sea but in the South Atlantic??? Oh, did I mention that 2 of the pilots have never hovered over the water before and there are no training hours allocated?? What a recipe for disaster. But it's OK as it's only a 1-year contract!!! Oh - and if 'gold-plated' means being able to do the job you are paid for and expected to do - then surely all aviation should be 'gold-plated'. |
Crab you're shouting at the wrong people:
Originally Posted by louisnewmark
they will only have been providing what the customer required
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Iron - so you think therefore it is OK to put oil workers lives at risk (because that is what is happening) because it is only a 1 year contract:ugh:
Si P.S. What has this got to do with the thread title? |
Ah Crab,
You have dipped your toe into the world of commercial offshore flying and contracts. Something that a mil pilot wouldn't understand. Contracts and the way they are run are regulated very closely by the customer and their aviation advisors/HSE. I should know i deal with them all the time. I hope the 2 Ex Navy SAR pilots you mentioned apprechiate your post. :ooh: I admire your passion for MILSAR and long may your posts continue on this subject. :) |
Worth pointing out that BI who were servicing that contract were refused permission by the UK CAA to conduct precisely the type of "Limited SAR" currently being provided by CHC, even though there was plenty of ex RN (and RAF) experience available.
They have achieved this by operating on the Cayman Islands AOC....some of us are very upset at the obvious double standard being applied! |
May we get back onto subject, damn THAT's why my teachers always got angry at me at school.
Anyone heard anything about the new, (new?) contract? Si |
All potential bidders for the "son of Interim" contract had to have their applications in by today. So expect we will hear a bit more soon about that one. :rolleyes:;)
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A brief googling only brings up Bristow as a contender. Guess we'll know more in the next few days.
Would CHC have the brass-neck to tender, I wonder? |
Bigglesbutler - there will only be more speculation and wild-arsed guessing as far as the new new contract goes - anyone with hard int won't post it here.
I should have emphasised that the 2 ex-RN SAR guys are rearcrew, not pilots and that is the only reason the back of the aircraft (not including any wet-fit) is adequately prepared. How on earth do CHC get away with operating on a Cayman Islands AOC in the Falklands???? What is not clear is who is actually responsible for regulating aviation down here, one would have thought the CAA would be in charge given that it is British territory but that doesn't seem to be the case. Back to the thread - will CHC have the brass-neck to bid for UK SAR again? Of course they will, it's big bucks and big kudos. |
Aircraft registered in UK overseas territories (including the Cayman and Falkland Islands) are regulated under OTAR's, which are essentially watered down CAA regulations, administered by ASSI. Google otars and all is there for you to read. The person responsible for regulating aviation in the Falkland Islands is the DCA, Mr. Andrew Newman, based in Stanley.
BIH operate G-registered aircraft, and therefore have to comply with CAA regulations, operating under a British AOC (I think), from which dispensations have to be requested from the UK CAA. There is certainly one ex RN pilot working for CHC in the Falklands, and I'm sure they have other pilots perfectly capable of adapting to the role, in whatever definition of 'limited' is being used. The only reason this SAR cover is being set up is because the serviceability record of the MPA machine is nothing short of appalling (I have heard 50%, which surely can't be true?). No SAR cover, no fly, with the result that for every day the oil fixed wing charter is delayed costs £100k - hence the quick fix. However, in the event of a real emergency, I'm quite sure MPA would get the first call, if they were serviceable. Word on the street is that CHC are broke, and maybe going under? |
I hope so.
What with the jungle drums bemoaning the lousy terms and conditions the pilots and rear crew are getting together with the debacle surrounding SARH, makes you wonder if they are on a suicide mission. Plenty out there to fill the gap they leave behind though;) |
the serviceability record of the MPA machine is nothing short of appalling (I have heard 50%, which surely can't be true?) |
Originally Posted by [email protected]
Bigglesbutler - there will only be more speculation and wild-arsed guessing as far as the new new contract goes - anyone with hard int won't post it here.
I suppose I was trying to prevent further mil-civ battles as there are other threads with such subject matter. Si |
Also an ex-RAF SAR pilot down there as well which escaped a mention.
Anyway Crab if you are not happy about it why not take it up with CHC management instead of slapping your gums on here. Google CHC and I'm sure a number will come up. Wiretensioner |
The original plan was to have the aircraft engineer act as the winchop and lower a basket to the survivors!!! Bear in mind this is for an opeartion in the South Atlantic where sea state 6 is normal and the sea temp is plus 5 at the moment. |
So onwards to 'Gap SAR', which appears to be the new name for the MCA contract. I see that the 'IPOD consortium' are bidding for the contract. Can anyone shed any light on which companies are in this group? CHC, not surprisingly, will be bidding to retain the contract.
Any knowledge of other bidders? |
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