PPRuNe Forums

PPRuNe Forums (https://www.pprune.org/)
-   Rotorheads (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads-23/)
-   -   Photographer's Harness (https://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/422324-photographers-harness.html)

nrh 27th Jul 2010 10:22

Photographer's Harness
 
Please can anyone offer any advice on UK regulations / what the requirements are for a harness when doing aerial + air to air photography, doors off, from a helicopter? Also where one might obtain such a thing and if a regular climbing harness with suitable attachments might suffice?

Many thanks

nrh

parasite drag 27th Jul 2010 10:52

Contact Dave Spurdens at LOOP.aero :ok:

Dieselpower 27th Jul 2010 10:59

Hi NRH

I do a fair ammount of aerial photography in the R44. The normal rules apply (rule 5) and also make sure you do not fly the helicopter is such manner that if you have a power unit failure you won't be able to make a safe landing.

I take every unnecessary loose object out of the helicopter (i.e sick bags, briefing cards ect) when removing the doors. I only take the rear right door off so no objects can fly into the tail rotor and you also get the advantage of seeing what the photographer is trying to capture. Remember the helicopters limitations when doors are removed.

With regards to the photographer I use a normal climbing harness with a strong climbing rope attached with two carabinas attached to him and a structural point in the helicopter. Also the camera has to be sercurly attached to the photographer himself (I use a thin steel cable with recorders). I also have him strapped in with the standard seatbelts. Make sure he does not have any loose articals or lenses on his camera and if he does change them in flight make sure there is an assistant to help him.

Hope this can help

Regards

DP

photex 27th Jul 2010 13:55

You may want to think about using a fall arrester as well to absorb the energy from the (potential) fall. These can be purchased relatively cheaply, but are an absolute necessity when using a harness/short-rope set up.

Taking a fall onto a short piece of climbing rope is a very easy way of breaking your back or at least snapping something nasty.

PM for more info (occasional climbing instructor).

mickjoebill 27th Jul 2010 14:15


Also the camera has to be sercurly attached to the photographer himself (I use a thin steel cable with recorders). I also have him strapped in with the standard seatbelts. Make sure he does not have any loose articals or lenses on his camera and if he does change them in flight make sure there is an assistant to help him.
Well, this setup will certainly protect the cameraman from falling out but will it hinder his egress in an emergency?
Can the carabinas be easily reached by the cameraman?
Straping the camera to the cameramans body is a less than good idea. Something else to tangle him up if he has to do a runner.
Attach the saftey strop to the aircraft not the man.

A cameraman drowned in an light aircraft ditching a few years ago, three others escaped uninjured. The cameraman couldn't release his carabinas and apparently he nor anyone else on board had a knife to hand.

If you tie your passenger in, consider a rigid sheathed knife strapped to his shin. Also another securley taped to the ceiling or seat, easily available if the cameraman is knocked out in a prang by the camera. Divers knives are good choice as they have straps on the sheaths.
A helmet is a good idea, something between camera and skull.


Mickjoebill

Dieselpower 27th Jul 2010 15:27

Mickjoebill

I can see your point. The carabina is right infront of the camera man and in the brief you tell him that is the first thing he would reach for in an emergency (he still has the aircraft seat belt on in the air).

With regards to having the camera straped to the man the advantage is that he has control over it at all times and it is one less thing that could tangle him into the aircraft.

Ops manual forbids flight over water without floats so that one is cleared up!

DP

Gordy 27th Jul 2010 16:19

A knife is not the best idea.....we have these hanging in the back seat area:

http://www.cascadefire.com/images/40212.jpg

Brilliant Stuff 27th Jul 2010 19:24

We use a dispatchers harness which goes only round the hips. This is easy release.

In general we also leave the photographer secure to his seat by the normal seatbelt but at times one needs the extra flexibility so the seatbelt gets released, but then the dispatchers harness is only long enough for the actions so should you fall you can only fall an inch.

Camera is secured round the neck of the photographer.

TRC 27th Jul 2010 20:16

I have used a purpose-made harness made by Irvin GQ for over 10 years.

It is a parachute harness with an adjustable length tether - BUT - the tether is releasable from the harness in emergency with a quick-release handle. The mechanism of this release is safe from accidental operation, but quick and easy if you need it.

The harness MUST be releasable quickly in case of ditching, fire, etc - AND the tether should be short enough to prevent matey from leaving the aircraft. The number of times I've seen people in a harness with about eight feet of rope at their feet FFS!! I remember an accident some years ago where the video cameraman was dragged along by his tether outside the helicopter after a hard engine-off run-on landing.

Also, in a small helicopter, the standard seat belt should still be used around the photographer's waist - a harness, even on a short tether is useless in a hard landing or accident (see above).

He's wearing the harness to keep him IN, not to catch him when he's fallen OUT.......

Juan Smore 28th Jul 2010 06:48

TRC
Quite agree, the harness tether length should be adjusted to PREVENT him falling out. Can you give me the details of your Irvin GQ harness please?

John Eacott 28th Jul 2010 07:35

I've no idea of the UK regulations, but Australia introduced standards for harnesses a few years ago, both for rescue harness and for crewman's harness. Companies have approvals ("Permissions", as they are now called) against not wearing seat belts when using a harness, but they will always stipulate that if a seat belt is worn then the harness must be disconnected: no point in getting caught trying to release both restraints after a bingle!

Our crewman/cameraman's harnesses have to be made to an approved standard, and are usually modified parachute harnesses with the quick release going to a 3 ring arrangement which will detach the securing strap from the back of the harness. A web cutter is essential as an alternative release, usually attached to one of the shoulder straps of the harness. Just as important is the hard point for attaching the harness to the airframe: seat belt anchorage points often do not have the lateral strength to safely restrain the crewman in an emergency. Bell have anchorage points for 206's which bolt to the vertical surface below the seats, other types need to be checked for an approved point.

We also have quick release straps to secure the camera to the harness, a further safety issue which can be overlooked. Then the still photographer changes his lens and it slips out of his hand: but you can only allow for so much, unfortunately!! :hmm:

There was a thread a while back, Lap belt vs harness which had some further discussion.

TRC 28th Jul 2010 07:53


Can you give me the details of your Irvin GQ harness please?
I'm away at the moment and don't have the part number handy. There's no sign of it on the Irvin site, but this is very similar.

It is really better suited to larger helicopters that you can wander about in. I have used it in 350/355's with the tether point central in the back so as not to fall out of either side.

The important things are:
  • The harness tether must be short enough to keep the wearer inside the aircraft. Once the wearer is rigged get him to slide forward/lean out as much as possible - if his @r$e slides off the seat/door sill, the tether is too long. (Best done before take-off)
  • The harness is not the primary means of restraint for take-off and landing
  • All loose items removed or restrained - seat cushions, etc. I have known of 206 hatracks, roof trims and the entire rear bulkhead trim of a 355 coming adrift when flying doors-off

[email protected] 28th Jul 2010 13:13

Harness
 
We've been using a crew mans harness from Lifesaving Systems Corp for years for crew ops in the back including photography. it works really well. It has a double safety lock with fully adjustable length strap and once this is anchored in the aircraft using the quick release (with safety), they are not going anywhere - hopefully :)

http://www.rotorinfo.com/images/testart/harness.jpg
http://www.lifesavingsystems.com/ima...ss_dtl/219.jpg

They are available from Life Saving Systems. As it happens, I have a couple of them which i no longer need - if you're interested PM me or of course LSC will be happy to sell you a new one. They provide pretty good service.

Rescue1 28th Jul 2010 14:03

Hmmmmm
Glad I don't have to use that harness looks bloody dangerous to me,that is if the quick release mechanism is pressing the two side's in on each of the two snap connector's.
try doing that underwater.

Go for a dispatchers harness.

R1

MikeNYC 28th Jul 2010 17:15

We use full body harnesses by Yates (Rope Rescue Harnesses, as well as adjustable pick-off straps as tethers. Generally, the photographer is tethered in two places, middle of back and hips. The middle of back tether provides adjustability for lean, and the hip keeps his butt in. We generally work out of AStars and TwinStars with half of the seats folded up, and the photographer sits at the edge for maximum field of view and better ability to shoot straight down. The Yates harnesses provide several D-Rings that camera straps and other equipment can be attached to for safety (just looping the strap around your neck is NOT a great idea...). I do note the suggestion that camera gear should be tethered to the aircraft, not the individual... but that's not always practical.

I haven't found a quick release system that I'd trust not to get fouled in our gear during camera changes. Both the photographer and assistant carry a small seatbelt cutting tool in an easily accessible place on the harness. I'd be wary of using a simple climbing harness if working at the edge, as well as using the crewman safety belt as the sole restraint if working with the door removed.

All camera equipment (bags, gyro battery, etc) is tethered to hardpoints using quickdraws or longer webbing. For me, AStars have the easiest to access tether points, using the rear seatbelt attachment points. Bell 206's are a little bit more of a pain to access solid points on which to attach carabiners, but small bits of webbing around the seatbelt attachment point piece works for them. Interesting is John Eacott's mention below that seatbelt mount points may not have appropriate lateral strength. Mechanics in the past have advised me that seatbelt points were appropriate for this usage, but I'll have to revisit that.

In agreement with TRC's point, anything loose MUST be removed. When operating doors off in 350/355, the velcro on the rear cushions can come loose in the wind in certain conditions and create a dangerous situation. Also, the photographer should have the lens hood taped to each lens as the twistlock can come loose easily. Lens caps and things of that sort don't need to come up.

lamanated 28th Jul 2010 18:05

any time we get someone leaning out, we put a rubber band over the female latch, as the photographers are wearing baggy clothes and its easy to catch the lap belt in their gear, and unbuckle unknowingly. had one guy last year say he undid the latch on a job. with the rubber band, you can still easily pop the belt off.. Same as long lining, some guys if they have doors off, add the band in case.

[email protected] 28th Jul 2010 18:53

Rescue 1.

You are correct in assuming that you press the two sides to release the catch (twice :)). This piece of kit is favoured by the US Coast Guard and presumably it's a matter of risk management i.e ratio of people falling out of the helicopter versus helicopters going in the drink. We used it for crew safety in SAR type ops as much as photography over the 10 years or so.

It does work well and releases very easily with the added safety of the second release. For underwater egress, I always suppose that once you have your reference point and good training, reaching to your waist to release two catches is just as easy as one; however we know that pressure bursts pipes as we say, so maybe a bit of added stress at the wrong time might not be favoured, particularly by those hanging upside down without any underwater egress training at all.

Brilliant Stuff 28th Jul 2010 21:12

bhl that is the exact harness we use.

We work inland therefore we should manage to keep clear of water.

havick 29th Sep 2010 13:53

A cameramans harness will have a quick release handle much like on a parachute harness, therefore it is very quick for said person to exit the aircraft if they happen to survive the crash if they're not in their seat wearing their seatbelt (an unfortunate trade-off of achieving the task at hand vs risk). If someone's attached to the aircraft via a harness with no way of releasing themselves in a hurry other than via a carabiner that is connecting them, good luck getting out when the s*it hits the fan..

Furthermore the camera should be attached to the aircraft itself via a load rated strop/teather to stop it ending up going through someones' roof and landing on their dining room table in the middle of dinner. It won't act as an anchor on the cameraman that way.

Fortyodd2 14th Oct 2014 17:55

Do you mean fall arrest? Or do you mean a restraining harness to stop them falling in the first place?

TRC 14th Oct 2014 18:07

There have been several threads on here in the past on this subject.

The crucial things are that the harness stops the wearer falling out at all, rather than catching them when they have, and either the harness or the tether are quick-release. Industrial harnesses that are like putting overalls on are hopeless as they take too long to remove in an emergency.

I have seen people with ten feet of tether on the floor at their feet, and/or wearing the sort of thing found on building sites that are awkward to get out of.

I use a harness made by Irvin, it's a modified parachute harness with an adjustable length tether. The tether is attached to the harness with a three-ring release operated by a well-protected 'rip-cord' handle.

Gordy 14th Oct 2014 18:16

No such regulation here in FAA land.

Helilog56 14th Oct 2014 18:45

Regulations aside....how about commons sense that says, don't test you liability insurance!!!?!?! :ugh:

KiwiNedNZ 14th Oct 2014 18:52

For the shoot I did today here in Doha its a full harness that you put your legs through and then a strap across the chest.

I used an AW139 as a camera ship today so used the anchoring straps around the bottom seat rails. I tightened the tether so I am at the door edge but no further. Once its anchored in I ALWAYS grab the end of and put all my weight on it to ensure no movement. Then hook up and away we go.

Me personally I dont lean all the way out hanging on the harness, dont see the point, wouldn't put the pilot in the position of filling out all that paperwork if something let go. Besides there is always a way to get that unique shot you want without being all the way outside the helo. For example today I just sat on the floor of the 139 in the doorway and shot for 2.3 hours and got everything I needed.

For those that are interested we were shooting Gulf Helicopters new AW189 as well as the S92 :)

Just my two cents worth.

Ned

mickjoebill 15th Oct 2014 05:43

Three well intentioned cameraman have drowned in last 15 years, trapped by their home made harnesses, 1 x fixed wing 2 x helicopters ( 1 x civilian 1 x military)
In all cases they were the sole occupant who perished.


A common mistake is to use climbing gear, carabiners are designed not to release when under load, which screws you if you are left upside down in a rollover.

A one hand, protected, quick release is ideal.



Mickjoebill

lelebebbel 15th Oct 2014 06:06

In OZ, you require an approval to use a photographers harness in lieu of the otherwise required seat belts. The details and conditions under which such a harness can be used are then put in your companies ops specs. This includes clear stipulations as to when the harness or seat belts have to be worn, as well as specifications for the harness to be used. For example, it must have an emergency quick release, the tether has to be the right length, it has to be attached to an appropriately rated hard point in the aircraft etc.

All good things to think about either way.

Since one is also required to wear a seatbelt in Canada, I would assume that a similar approval process would be required, although that is just a guess.

We had a purpose built helicopter harness when I was working down under. It had an emergency release similar to a parachute, and an adjustable length tether. I forgot the brand name, but I remember that it wasn't all that expensive.

John Eacott 15th Oct 2014 06:59

Australian harnesses:

Airsafety Solutions

SETS

http://www.sets.com.au/pics/harness/...-Fitting-1.jpg

http://www.sets.com.au/pics/harness/Harness2.jpg

CASA Technical Standards Order

MBJ 15th Jan 2015 16:26

Dispatcher Harnesses
 
Does anyone know of dispatcher harnesses available for purchase in the UK?

SilsoeSid 15th Jan 2015 17:12

To clarify MBJ, are you after a despatches harness as in the traditional 'belt type' as used by UK Mil, or a despatchers harness more akin to a climbers harness?

TRC 15th Jan 2015 18:42

Hi BJ,

I use one made by Irvine GQ.

PM me and I'll tell you who has (had) a couple. Clue might be in his initials - DA.

Thanks for the Christmas card btw.

TC

P.S. NO-ONE should even THINK about using a climbing or industrial type harness in a flying machine!!!!

RVDT 15th Jan 2015 18:56

a.k.a a Monkey Belt? LMGTFY?


Lite Flite produces gunner belts, a.k.a. monkey belts or body positioning straps, and all sorts and lengths of lanyards for securing the crew during open door missions.
Lite Flite ApS
Lufthavnsvej 8
6580 Vamdrup
Denmark

Tel: +45 7558 3737
Fax: +45 7558 3758

Email: [email protected]

or

Airborne Systems Limited
Llangeinor • Bridgend CF32 8PL • UK
Tel: +44 (0)1656.727000

SilsoeSid 15th Jan 2015 20:05

Thank you TRC for the p.s.
Could you elaborate please?
:ok:

Hughes500 16th Jan 2015 07:50

TRC

nothing wrong with wearing a full body climbing harness, it is the release system that is the crucial bit ! Using krabs from the climbing world does not give that quick release if that is what you mean

TRC 16th Jan 2015 09:43

Sid, this new thread has been added to all the others on this subject from the past.

Read it from the beginning again.

Climbing/industrial harnesses are not designed to be removed quickly. That means the only way to get out of a sinking or burning machine is to un-clip the tether at one end or the other. Not always easy as other posters have alredy pointed out.

Hughes, yes - that's what I mean.

SilsoeSid 16th Jan 2015 12:06

Thanks TRC, I noticed that and it's interesting to read about the varying pieces of kit being used, and more importantly not used. Clearly, varying experience and risk assessments have led to the differing opinions. Again, the type of belt/harness/restraint utilised would depend on the likelihood of a fall. Some types of harness/belt would not have the required safety conformities as those designed to be capable of arresting a fall.

For example;
SAR Twin Rope Lanyards

This lanyard is ideal for work positioning and work restraint and also passes the full standard EN354.

NOTE: These lanyards are not to be used for fall arrest.
Lanyards complying to EN354 must be used in conjunction with an energy absorber complying to EN355 for fall arrest and NOT to exceed 2m in length.
For what it's worth, I've always thought that 'in the event of', it should be possible to extract oneself with one arm incapacitated and 'blind'.

TRC 16th Jan 2015 12:14

I don't understand why 'fall arrest' comes into this.

The sole purpose of these harnesses is to stop the wearer falling out, not to catch them when they do.

For the majority of photo sorties, the photographer should be in a seat with the normal seat belt fastened. The harness we are talking about is a secondary safety - no use at all in a heavy landing/crash.

chute packer 16th Jan 2015 13:32

Indeed TRC. Another factor is the anchoring requirements for restraint vs fall arrest are different, there is a snatch loading on the hard point used as a fall arrest to be considered.

Also, read an accident report recently of an Australian Army Chinook crash in AFG. Only person killed was on the ramp during flight using a fall arrest strop, inflight upset caused him to fall out the back, the fall arrest strop extended 2 metres as designed to, and he was left hanging out the back unable to get back in when the helo bellied in, he was crushed under the ramp, everyone else survived.
250 page report here http://www.defence.gov.au/publicatio...May11-Case.pdf
Last few chapters relate to the strop used. Suited to a building site, not a military aircraft.

SilsoeSid 16th Jan 2015 14:16


The sole purpose of these harnesses is to stop the wearer falling out, not to catch them when they do.
Agreed TRC, however I bet this guy was glad he wasn't wearing a harness :eek:


McHover 16th Jan 2015 14:27

For the best advice...
 
...listen to John Eacott and Mickjoebill. Sound. Sensible. Safe.

MikeNYC 16th Jan 2015 19:15

While it may not be the popular answer, in my line of work we use industrial harnesses (made for transmission tower work) along with adjustable anchor straps. Release is by means of seatbelt cutters mounted and easily accessible on each harness, that (tested) slice through the anchor strap(s) instantly.

I have no trust in the dial-a-death chest-mounted quick release knobs when doing photography work, as equipment is frequently pressed against the chest and other items that could agitate it. Same goes for quick-release buckles in the back. The cutters are accessible with either hand and only require one hand. I am in in agreement that fall-arrest type straps have no place in an aircraft.

As far as the photographer being restrained primarily by a seatbelt, that simply doesn't work for a lot of missions. The flexibility isn't there.

One other important point is that the camera equipment should never be anchored to the harness or the photographer directly, but rather to the aircraft, lest the cameras act as an anchor should an evacuation be needed.


All times are GMT. The time now is 23:12.


Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.