Agusta AW139
 

I am currently looking after a small fleet of private helicopters and one of my customers is looking at the AB139. Any comments or views would be appreciated

AB139
 

As we have frequently seen in the past new-model aircraft take quite some time after initial lauch to reach their full potential. When parting with the sums of money involved in the procurement of such a machine then the prospective owner should be aware that the machine is quite likely to be plagued with problems: some minor, some not, for a number of years. I have been told that this was the case with the A119 Koala - and this was based on the proven A109.

If your client doesn't demand very high availability and has lots of money, then go for it. People need to buy the machine for it to have the opportunity to improve.

However, if the machine is to be a hardworking machine in daily use then I would be of the opinion that the same money should be spent on a proven machine of known reliability.

Good Luck
Jase

:confused:

Cran,

What alternative are you talking about?:confused:

Eurocopter Dauphin/EC155B, S-76C or Bell 412 - all similar in size and IFR Capable.

CRAN

I disagree with you.

Sure the 139 is currently an unknown quantity but the other types you mention also have problems.

The EC155 is underperforming (revised version with more power coming out very soon) The S76C+ needs its Arriel 2S1 engines changing at regular intervals and the Bell 412 is such a backward leap in technology (even in EP form) that it is costly to maintain unless you are flying very few hours.

LE

The S-76 C+ is more money but the reliability of the Arrius engines isn't too much of a problem in my experience. The fuel burn tends to be higher than advertised though...

I agree about the comments about the 155 and the 412.

I think it's important (for someone else) to buy 139s asap so that all the problems of this new type get ironed out for us! ;)

SHY TORQUE

For info

The ARRIEL 2S1 engines in the C+ are having much lower MTBR rates than they should be having. There are several operators in the USA including one oil company who have had these problems and are having very active dialogue with the manufacturer (Turbomeca) about the subject.

LE

Having looked at the 139 for my company it beats the 76, 412 and 155 hands down on range and payload. It is $1,000,000 cheaper than the C+. As I understand it several are destined for the North Sea from the early batches to be released at the start of next year if certification goes according to plan. Hopefully they will put a few hours on them and start getting the snags out before the machine arrives for the onshore market.

LE,

All I can say is that ours are OK!

Shy Torque

Well, ours are not that ok! and others are only ok "ish" at the moment.

LE:p

Is it possible that the environment they operate in may have a big effect on engine performance . I would think 2 worst would be wet and salty ( prob not to bad as long as you do regular compressor washes ) and dry and sandy . Are sand filters std equipment for most Oz operators ?.

wHAT'S AN ab139:confused:

Bell Agusta

Thomas

Go to the above link and click Aircraft and all your questions should be answered.

:)

magbreak,

Do you know who on the North Sea the AB139's are destined for???






"Some days you are the pigeon, some days you are the statue!"

Ab 139
 

Other than the recent tragic accident, does anyone have any first hand or genuine second hand info about the AB 139? Such things as basic performance figures, certification, cost, availabilty, etc. Also any comparisons with say the 412EP.
Many thanks in advance.:confused:

ab139 for deepwater
 

Lockheed, Northrop to Revamp Coast Guard
Tue Jun 25, 4:18 PM ET
By Jim Wolf

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Coast Guard ( news - web sites) on Tuesday picked Lockheed Martin Corp. and Northrop Grumman Corp. to overhaul its aging ships, aircraft and communications gear in a deal worth up to $17 billion over 30 years.


The "Deepwater" project calls for the purchase of up to 91 ships, 35 fixed-wing aircraft, 34 helicopters and 76 pilot-less surveillance aircraft, the Department of Transportation said in a statement.

In addition, the contract calls for upgrading 49 cutters, 93 helicopters and communications systems that help the Coast Guard do everything from stopping illegal immigrants to catching drug runners, protecting the environment and performing search and rescue operations.

The project is designed to turn the self-described 37th oldest of 39 similar fleets worldwide into the world's most highly integrated, in line with the Coast Guard's growing role since the Sept. 11 attacks.

"The tragic events of September 11 changed the world as we know it. Homeland security, now more than ever, is a mission where we must succeed," said U.S. Coast Guard Commandant Thomas Collins.

In March, the Coast Guard rejected proposals by two other bidders -- Boeing Co. and a team made up of Science Applications International Corp., Raytheon and Manitowoc Co.

Working with some cutters built as far back as the 1940s, the Coast Guard has been struggling to secure the nation's ports, enforce safety zones around Navy ships and board commercial ships in search of chemical, biological and nuclear weapons.

"As America's first line of defense for maritime homeland security, it is critical that the Coast Guard be able to identify and intercept targets of interest as far from U.S. shores as possible," said DOT Deputy Secretary Michael Jackson.

The "Deepwater" contract was to be awarded at a ceremony later Tuesday in Washington to Integrated Coast Guard Systems, the 50-50 partnership between Lockheed and Northrop.

Are they positive on the AB 139? Or will they be buying a assortment of A/Cs. I was kinda hoping the S-92 would be chosen. Would kind of make sense if there is some part comminality(did I spell that right?) Are the 92s perhaps too large to operate on the cutters? I am interested, because I am going to join soon and hopefuly get into flight school once I graduate college.

Any one with ship op experience have any insight on things that would be considered in choosing a helicopter?

For some reason Rotorhub is announcing that they have chosen 139. Not sure if that was the only one Lockheed / martin/ grumman proposed . I am sure there will be something official soon.

AB139 Achieves Type Certification
 

Paris Air Show, Press Release

http://isweb41.infoseek.co.jp/travel/helicopt/ab139.jpg

The AB139 has received its Italian IFR Type Certification.
Mr. Di Palma, Managing Director of the Italian Certification Air Worthiness Authority (ENAC), today signed and handed over the AB139 Type Certificate to Mr. Amedeo Caporaletti, CEO AgustaWestland and Chairman of Bell/Agusta Aerospace Company, at a ceremony at the Paris Air Show, Le Bourget. The certification was the culmination of 1600 hours of ground and flight test programs.

Mr. Caporaletti stated, “Today marks a tremendous achievement that testifies the companies’ commitment to the market to introduce the new benchmark medium twin helicopter.” Mr. Redenbaugh added, “We are proud to be a partner with this exciting new product which brings new standards and capability to the market, and we look forward to the FAA certification which is expected in the coming months.”

The two Pratt & Whitney, Canada, PT6C-67C engines ensure the AB139 can maintain high cruise speeds in excess of 150 knots at all weights, high temperatures and altitudes, with ample power margins. In addition, Category “A” Class 1 performance, without payload loss, is assured. AB139 customers will enjoy high productivity with an aircraft designed to meet today’s JAR29/FAR29 standards.

http://www.bellagustaaerospace.com/h..._Panel_800.jpg

The first production aircraft will be delivered to an Italian customer later this year. Twenty-five customers have demonstrated their confidence in the AB139, thus providing a two-year order backlog for Bell/Agusta Aerospace Company. The major market segments of Offshore, Corporate, VIP, Emergency Medical Services (EMS) and Law Enforcement are all represented. In addition, Integrated Coast Guard Systems (ICGS) has selected AB139 as its recommended helicopter for the US Coast Guard Deepwater Program.

Jolly good.

Has anyone in the UK ordered any?

AB139 at Farnborough 2002

'S funny. Looks line an S92 but smaller and with bigger windows !

The Nr Fairy - The evacuation trial vid is a gem. "The corners man... hit the corners!!!!" I laughed off my seat.

Will this one be the new alternative to the 412?

Where can I find specs on it?

AB 139 specs
 

To: Sprocket

Try here: http://www.aerospace-technology.com/...139/specs.html

:ok:

Having said that, if anyone wants to give me the opportunity to compare the two . . .

Thanks Lu.

The AB 139 has the edge over the 412 in the basic specs, especially in speed and power.

How much advantage is there in a helicopter that size having five, instead of four blades in the M/Rotor? Safety in numbers? …. Anyone?

Nr, if you get the job, can I come for a ride too? ….. Huh? huh?

My hearty congratulations to the AB-139 team. This is a great achievement, and they should be rightfully proud.

I do note the uncanny similarity in flight hours to the S-92, 1575 vice 1600. There is a story to tell with that. With a typical structural or certification test hour running about US $30,000 to 40,000, the cost of flight test alone for certification is pushing $50 million!

I had the occasion to fly it when in Italy with some students from NTPS who were doing their final project.
15 minutes was just a great taste - acres of glass (best field of view I've seen since the Bell 47), easy access to the copilots seat (there was about 18" between the most forward part of the collective and the door post).
Smooth, quiet, comfortable - 163 KIAS at 100% torque at aft CG and maximum weight. 140 KIAS at 70% torque. Not much vibration. Great flight controls - typical Italian finesse in that the trim release button and the beeper trim didn't take tons of pressure to work.
Great displays - little different than normal with the vertical scale altitude and airspeed, but easy to use and see. AFCS off wasn't even a big deal.
Nice landing gear- lots of travel and yet firm.
Simple looking - no mechanical mixing of the flight controls despite a canted tail rotor (only very minor cross coupling in pedal turns - AFCS did a great job of maintaining datum attitudes).
Tail rotor has drag dampers on the blades - first one I've seen.
Baggage compartment is huge - unbelievably big.
And the cockpit is wider than a C-130 Hercules!
More details will have to wait for a longer flight (probably September, I'm told)

I heard rumours that it was tad heavy for decks certified for the 412/76 class of aircraft, and this may cause problems for its future as these are the aircraft its slotted to replace. Anybody heard more on this?

Lead lag dampers
 

To: Shawn Coyle

The Sikorsky H-37 had lead lag dampers on the tail rotor and I believe the CH-53 and larger Sikorsky helicopters have them as does the EH-101. But, not on the S-61 and its’ derivitives.

:ok:

However big the baggage compartment is, it ain't big enough. When you start carrying Schlumberger hands, the bags eat up the baggage space really quick. In a 412/S76 you're lucky to fit 9, using the rest of the seats for baggage in addition to the baggage compartment. It takes close to 25 cubic ft/man for baggage, sometimes more.

I don't know the max weight of either the AB139 or the S92, but most decks in the GOM are limited to 11,000lb or less. The big deepwater drilling rigs likely can handle them, as long as they have the range to get out >200NM with a load. You won't be able to stop & refuel on the way like you can with the current fleet.

Lu,

You are correct that the CH-37 had tail rotor dampers, but I believe it was the only Sikorsky model that made it to production with them installed. The entire tail rotor assembly looked like a goat-rope (but then my friends who worked on the CH-37 said the whole machine was that way)!

I have a photograph on my wall of the prototype CH-54A in an incomplete state (mock-up), with the CH-37 tail rotor installed. As far as I am aware, all production CH-53 and CH-54 had a rigid tail rotor installed. They certainly do in their current state, and share common components.

As far as the AB-139, they certainly got the baggage compartments right. They are huge and exactly what is required. The S-76 and Bell 212/412 have pitiful space available - totally inadequate for the mission.

I didn't realise that the EH-101 had tail rotor dampers, but then again it has been a while since I had the opportunity to see one up close. Anyone have any pictures?

These are interesting times, as an entire generation of new helicopters hit the marketplace, AB-139, EH-101, S92 and Super Puma Mk 2.

Hopefully the marketplace will be able to realise the potential of these aircraft and undergo a renaissance.

Egg on my face
 

To: Shawn Coyle

When the EH-101 was originally designed the tail rotor was very much like the S-56 and had dampers. Looking at a close-up of the EH-101 tail rotor it seems that the design has evolved and there are no dampers. I would assume that lead and lag is reacted by the blades and they bend in plane.

Agusta on occasion would adapt a design from their license partners or from other programs. On the first Agusta 101 the fuselage looked like a Super Frelon and the rotorhead was pure French.

Sorry for the confusion.

:confused:

Ab 139
 

There has been an AB139 tooling around at Gateway (KIWA) airport in Phoenix, AZ...Anyone know what they are up to with or taking part in it? Looked like they were doing HV testing.

My spies (Agusta Flight Test Engineers) tell me it's at Honeywell for AFCS development.
I am supposed to go fly it for Helicopter World sometime later in January for a full report. Can't wait, as my previous 15 minutes in the machine was an absolute gas.
Shawn

There is an AB139 at Deer Valley in the Honeywell hangar. It is there for testing on the EPIC FMS. I was fortunate enough to have the engineers take me for a tour and fire up the FMS as it was in for maintenance and a fix of the Air Conditioning.

Saw the AB139 SAR variant at Helitech 03, looked like a real peach. Does it fly as well as it looks?

Saw the AB139 SAR variant at Helitech 03, looked like a real peach........

AT

The SAR configured helicopter at Heliech 03 was a PUMA for JIGSAW project.

Agusta-Bell pulled the [real] 139 at the last moment and sent it to a show in Rome instead.

The only Helitech exhibits were mock-ups.

I want a tour! Ill have to start searching the honeywell plant out in the San Tans and maybe Ill see it out there as well. Doubt theyd leave it out in the open though.

Irish Aer Corps to order 6 Helicopters
 

Reported in this Sundays Independant.

http://www.unison.ie/irish_independe...issue_id=10847

THE Irish Air Corps is to get six new helicopters in a mix of two types - including two able to carry a section of nine soldiers.

Helicopter manufacturers are eagerly awaiting tenders, expected to be published this week by the Department of Defence which is seeking four light utility and two larger utility helicopters.

The move comes nearly five months after Minister Michael Smith said a new fleet of light utility helicopters would replace the small Alouette, Dauphin and Gazelle aircraft.

With the Air Corps' main responsibility for search and rescue now privatised, the force is looking at providing more support to the army, including air mobility for troops. As a result, the specification for the new aircraft was changed from only one type of helicopter announced by Mr Smith last December.

The defence forces have also seen how vital air mobility is in the context of modern peace keeping, like the volatile situation in Liberia.

Elements of the Irish army battalion there have been able to conduct long-range patrols hundreds of kilometres from base using giant Ukrainian Air Force Mi-26 helicopters to carry their armoured cars and jeeps; Mi-8s to carry troops and Mi-24 gunships to provide "top cover".

Manufacturers expected to be in contention for the order include Eurocopter with its Ec-135 and Ec-145 helicopters; Agusta with its 109 helicopter, and Sikorsky with its S-76 or Blackhawk.

The six new aircraft will replace 15 light helicopters, some of which were bought in 1963.

The new fleet is also expected to be used for surveillance, inshore rescue, medivac, air ambulance, island relief, hospital transfers and training.

Meanwhile, the Air Corps will take delivery, before June, of the last of the eight Pilatus PC-9m training aircraft which have been bought for €60m.

They can be armed with heavy machine guns and rockets and are expected to play a role enforcing an air exclusion zone over Dromoland Castle and Shannon Airport for the President George W Bush visit.
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I would think that any Vendors looking at this tender will be very weary after what happened the last time with Eurocopter and Sikorsky.