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Opinions wanted for UAV completely take over the helicopter in the long term future?
Its interesting to see the development and increase in UAV/UAS technology and proposals for use in law enforcement and firefighting and pipeline and powerline monitoring.
However does this mean that in the long term future that the role of the commercial helicopter pilot (and not meaning re assigned to the UAV/UAS ground operator either!!) may be reduced somewhat? I understand that in Japan there are over 1000 Yamaha RMAX utilised for crop spraying Out of interest will UAV/UAS's will completely take over some roles apart from passenger transportation, some law enforcement and EMS operations, because of zero risk to aircrew and cost attraction? Thanks Chopper2004 |
Out of interest will UAV/UAS's will completely take over some roles apart from passenger transportation, some law enforcement and EMS operations, because of zero risk to aircrew and cost attraction? |
Well, according to this link:
Yamaha RMAX Crash - Killed a person Those UAVs are just as deadly.:uhoh: |
Offshore is another area where pilots will still be employed but as chopper2004 said, UAVs will cost less and besides the insurance payouts will be less. Don't forget this industry is driven by the insurance companies.
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Duncan Sandy's " There will be no need for Pilots"
Of course I am probably a bit older than most of you but I do recall the armed forces minister in the 1950's remarking, - as he looked at the new saviour of the RAF, - The Bloodhound Missile". That in future the RAF would not require manned aircraft any more, the missile would do all of that.
This sounds a bit similar! Tigerfish |
NB As I've just mentioned in another thread, most* UAVs still need a pilot. The only difference being that the pilot is sat in a ground station, not the cockpit. Current UAVs aren't autonomous - we're not at the Skynet stage yet... ;)
*The Yamaha UAVs are obviously an exception. But they still need an operator to set their GPS routes. |
the pilot is sat in a ground station, Mustering? they may be a useful and fun tool. at least one big pastoral house has / is severely examined their potential use. they also think that they will do away with the experienced pilot to fly 'em. Ho ho. I see a lot of headless chooks running around, more headless than the usual less than gifted horsemen that we sometimes have to put up with nowadays I mean. good luck I say, i think it will be a while coming. tet |
Originally Posted by topendtorque
(Post 5359598)
and, hopefully in a comfy chair.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/xml/new...rators_800.JPG |
Is old mate above wearing the nomex zoom bag in case his console catches on fire? :}:}
....or is it for the chicks????:ok: |
Huh
The major problems with UAV's etc is that no countries regulatory authority is going to allow mixed traffic of manned and unmanned. Where as this may not be too much of a problem in the remote regions of our planet (Newcastle etc). In locations where there is high density population or manned traffic close to the surface, the usefulness of UAV's diminishes.
Jobs in the remote regions of our planet (Norwich), pipeline survey etc can I would have thought be carried out by a UAV adequately, but you always come back to the same old problem with sensor flown aircraft, the "drinking straw", which means that your view of the world is very limited and that something just out of view to the sensor head may be of interest to the operator but ends up being missed. Not ideal when a farmer is digging in fence posts and has'nt got to your pipeline yet. I would have thought therefore that there are a limited number of jobs that would would be ideal for UAV's and that those of us still in control of and sat in a heavier that air flying machine will still have jobs for a number of years to come :ok: |
Originally Posted by chopper2004 Opinions wanted for UAV completely take over the helicopter in the long term future? chopper2004 As you started this thread, what are your own thoughts/hopes regarding the future of UAVs & Helicopters? F43 |
Uav Cat ?
Let's think about this, there are currently a lot of self loading cargo which does not want to be in a manned helicopter, How do you think they would feel if the pilots were not going on the journey with them?????
Secondly, as a pilot you have a vested interest in the survival of you and your airframe as well as your passengers. Would you have the same vested interest sitting in a cupboard on the edge of an airport, if it all goes wrong you still get to drive home after the paper work is complete! I think we are a great number of years away from being comfortable with unmanned air transport. I reckon the military might take the first hit on this one! ( 50 years perhaps?) Some operators are still using S61/Seaking Pas. |
flyer43,
I can appreciate some systems such as Predator, Reaper and Firescout are acceptable for some military operations though Predator and its new maritime variant are doing well to complement the manned assets for border patrol for the US CBP. However I am not overly keen on UAVs replicating or replacing the manned helicopter even for surveillance be it powerline or parapublic or even crop spraying. Laying aside the risk argument and assessment for manned/unmanned flight, taking the pilot out of risk, out cockpit and sitting in a trailer 'flying' the craft. Also on a personal level, a lot of UAV designs are IMHO, dead ugly to look at compared to manned rotorcraft say a Huey II, AS-350, EC-135. One could argue that man since the early centuries has always wanted to fly and to travel....you can't do that with a UAV. In conclusion UAVs are ok: 1) Providing they complement manned systems and do not dominate the airspace 2) They do not take away revenue from a small commercial helicopter outfit that may have crop spraying or surveillance as more than 50% of its business Thankyou everyone for your thoughts and would appreciate more input as well on here. Take care and merry xmas |
You mentioned HEMS and Police work, I wonder how the pax will feel knowing that while they are out in the middle of nowhere they will be relying on a guy miles away to pick out a good HLS possibly in hills, poor weather and with limited external cues? UK airspace is still a busy place to be in.
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I do seem to recall that manchester police were emplying about 6 UAV's for crowd surveillance and such, and according to my sources they were setting it all up on channel 35 until someone remarked that remote control aircraft both fixed wint and heli's operate on that channel, and use pegs at their flying field to make sure they do not switch on and conflict with another aircraft alreay operating that channel. It was pointed out to them the consequences of som3eone with a remore control on channel 35 inadvertently unknowingly switching it on and according to my sources there was a lot of shocked looks and expression son their faces as it dawned on them what the ocnsequences would have been. I was somewhat surprised that their researchers were not alreay aware of a conflict like this,
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The Navy's new Robo-Copter heads to Afghanistan
Next month, the Afghanistan war gets a boost. Specifically, a boost from a robotic helicopter that ferries gear to U.S. troops. Check out the video above. That’s the K-MAX helicopter, a collaboration between defense giant Lockheed Martin and Connecticut aerospace company Kaman, lifting off from an Arizona test site in August, after its human pilot walked out of the cockpit. The copter ascends, toting nets bearing what look like hundreds of pounds’ worth of palletized cargo, flies the gear off to another part of the Yuma Proving Ground, drops it safely, and lands. This isn’t the first unmanned helicopter used in the Afghanistan war. Earlier this year, the Navy — which also owns the K-MAX — sent its Fire Scout surveillance helos into the war zone, where they flew as much as 400 hours per month. But K-MAX is the first robo-copter used for cargo operations, and the Department of the Navy’s been looking for months at using drone helos not only to drop troops their re-supply, but to get wounded warriors to a field hospital before it’s too late. It’s not hard to see why. Afghanistan’s craggy terrain isn’t great for airstrips large enough to land a hulking Air Force cargo plane, so helicopters have to hopscotch the south and east of the country to make their base drops. Those helicopters are at constant risk of running into Afghan insurgents packing rocket-propelled grenades or even shoulder-mounted missiles, especially if they’re freighted with heavy pallets. Even worse: Afghanistan’s terrain is hell on helicopters. “The most God-awful environment I’ve ever seen helicopters placed,” one commander recently told Danger Room. The Navy’s other robotic helicopter, the Fire Scout, has a mixed track record. The Pentagon’s independent testing group says it only completed 54 percent of its missions during a recent tour about the U.S.S. Halyburton. The Navy strongly rejects that assessment, and wears the Fire Scouts’ shootdown over Libya as a kind of badge of honor. Still, the K-MAX will have a much different mission than the Fire Scout. And as long as a human pilot isn’t in danger, the Navy isn’t so concerned. The K-MAX is capable of hauling up to 6,000 pounds at sea level, and can carry 4,300 as high up as 15,000 feet. In August, it ran a battery of tests at Yuma to show it can meet the Navy/Marine Corps requirement of moving up to 6,000 pounds of gear per day in Afghanistan. Pilots control the helicopter from a ground control station, like many larger drones. Before the year is done, two K-MAXes will arrive in Afghanistan. (A Navy spokeswoman, Jamie Cosgrove, declined to specify where they’ll be stationed.) |
Drone software infected by virus
The media are hot to raise concerns of remote controlled craft going AWOL.
Exclusive: Computer Virus Hits U.S. Drone Fleet Mickjoebill |
I've had a bit of a rethink about these gadgets, not that I would be at home in the "comfy chair" in a 'clean' bunker, but it strikes me that there could be an extensive usage of these machine for routine night street patrols, especially in the smaller provinical cities with smaller budgets.
In particular a growing menace is the gangs of under age and older louts that get about and mug law abiding citizens for money or often just for fun. They are usually impossible to spot from the ground unless by accident, but a cooled off street background could be useful for a heat signature to show up even a small group of urchins and warrant investigation from the local squad car. cheap, effective? cheers tet |
I really can't see the saving or increase in capability that the remotely-piloted KMAX brings to the game... the helicopter is still vulnerable to ground fire (more so with no DAS and no pilot to take evasive action quickly), still vulnerable to the harsh conditions (heat and dust) and the lack of a pilot will only give an extra 200lbs of payload. A RPV will always be slower to complete tasks than a helicopter flown by real pilots - the video of the Kmax with the load is painfully slow compared to normal ops for pick up and drop off (increased exposure to threat again).
Pointless exercise in trying to save money. As for wearing the FireScout's loss as a badge of honour - that goes to show what morons you are dealing with making these decisions - 'we sent it to do a job and we lost it' that is very mission-effective...not! |
Real value is for next Fukushima & Chernobil like nuclear incident.....
1986 to 2011.... 25 years in between and we are stll not capable to handle huge incdent pilotless. :} |
Although I can see uses for rotary winged observation UAVs, there is often a lot more to helicopter jobs than just the flying.
For example, who will carry the passengers bags, sign for the fuel and put the aircraft to bed at the other end of the journey? Top the oil up the next day? Ring for a taxi? I reckon it won't happen in any big way in my lifetime. |
Extension lead reqd?
I saw a photo of that Kmax drone, I think the remote control cable coming out the bottom is a bit short?
Marines To Test Lockheed's Drone Helicopter In Afghanistan |
They are usually impossible to spot from the ground unless by accident, but a cooled off street background could be useful for a heat signature to show up even a small group of urchins and warrant investigation from the local squad car. This will change in the next decade or two as higher resolution imagers become available allowing for very wide angles of downward capture and view, ie 8x the res of HD. Mickjoebill |
Marines’ Robot Cargo-Copter Takes Flight in Afghanistan
Marines’ Robot Cargo-Copter Takes Flight in Afghanistan.
Pakistan is still blockading NATO war supplies passing through the port of Karachi in response to last month’s killing of 24 Pakistani soldiers by an alliance air strike. But inside Afghanistan, supply lines are about to get a lot safer for NATO’s logisticians. On Saturday, the Marine Corps flew history’s very first combat resupply mission using a robot helicopter. The unmanned Kaman K-MAX successfully hauled a sling-load of cargo out to an unspecified base, presumably somewhere in southern Afghanistan. The successful first flight, plus a couple test runs earlier last week, “were in preparation for sustained operations,” Jeffrey Brown from Lockheed Martin told Paul McLeary of Aviation Week. Lockheed has partnered with Kaman and the Marine Corps to demonstrate two of the unmanned supply choppers in combat. Marines' Robot Cargo-Copter Takes Flight in Afghanistan | Danger Room | Wired.com |
9A....so lets see here....the Robo-Chopper does it thing all day long over a very hot radioactive area...gets lit up doing so...then who is supposed to service the thing....a Robo-Engineer?
Come to think about it....there's the deal...no spanner twisters to deal with! Just type a few commands into the computer....shove a work card through a card reader....and zingo....work done...no tea breaks...no fag breaks...no surly attitudes....and if one decides to lay out on you...you just hit the kill switch and that it sorted. |
That robo engineers we are already sending around near space :)
The facts are that we are supposed to send full resourced unit to danger site.... so just few "robo" refueling while operational. Later you have secondary dose on that airframe, which is measurable and under control - conditions of cooking reactor can not be.... If dose is just to much over to be possible to handle after decontamination, just park on safe side distance and send next one. :ok: Or scene can be also like "this" one :p |
behind a successful mission of UAV there is an experienced pilot
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Offshore pilots made redundant...........
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Not just offshore pilots but pretty much all of us in mmmmmmmmm 50 years.
Kmax and the USMC have been using a pilotless machine to sling in supplies in Afghanistan. It's quite amazing to watch, it's slower than a good long liner but this is only the beginning. Automation is the way to go EG. The autopilot on the machine I fly is better than me, it never gets tired, I do! Anyway I retire in 20 or so years so I think I'll be earning a living until then:D |
Way back in 1962 as a brand new RAF pilot I was waylaid by a very senior engineering officer and informed that I was wasting my time as I would be replaced by missiles in a few years. Ever since they have made underground trains automatic there hace been continuous statements of how aeroplanes in general were the next in line.
Who do you blame if something goes wrong? |
Who do you blame if something goes wrong? |
As long as they don't let microsoft anywhere near it they'll do well.
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:D
Better invest in some Apple shares than.... :D
In the year 2030, we get a the pilotcontrollS92 application for Iphone, where we fly remotly from the couch... :ok: |
And Microsoft engineers! :E
Phil |
The military doesn't quite count. They worry about being shot down and want no people on board at all, at any cost.
But as long as railroad trains, busses, airplanes and cars still need drivers on board, I wouldn't get too enthusiastic about pilotless civilian helicopters, especially when they are supposed to carry passengers.. |
In the year 2030, we get a the pilotcontrollS92 application for Iphone, where we fly remotly from the couch... Check this out! |
Hmmm
Our passengers who fly offshore on long sectors just can't wait to be flown in a pilot-less helicopter (not) Its at least a generation away with commercial passengers on board, as attitudes to risk will have to change. But, with Autonomous helicopters, (not those flown remotely) we could maybe go back to "single pilot" monitoring operations? |
"Opinions wanted for UAV completely take over the helicopter in the long term future?"
IMHO, Yes. And there are a number of very logical reasons for this. Dave |
When I was a kid, the future was all hover boards and heli cars. I'm still waiting. There's logic, and practical realities, demand versus cost.
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Commercial operations? Without a pilot? Not going to happen. Who could afford the insurance?
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