Hughes/MD 500
 

If you could afford your own helicopter what would you buy? What is the average cost of ownership, leaseback to operators, maintenance, etc ( turbines ) or would you just rent, on the old addage that if it flies, ***** or floats, rent it! ( I got married anyway ) What about depreciation, or do certain helicopters just stay at a certain price? How easy to resell?
What would you do? Anyone with real experience of private ownership?

Helicopter ownership is an expensive proposition. This is not like owning a Piper Warrior where the purchase price is the main cost.

The helicopter purchase price is just one expense, if being financed you may have to put down 20% of the purchase price versus 5-10% for an airplane. You will need to hangar it as most helicopters are delicate machines and should not be exposed to the elements.

Insurance is a major cost, you also need hull insurance if the helicopter is financed. A B206 worth about 350,000 USD with liability and hull insurance would be in a range of 25,000 to 35,000 a year if it’s used for air taxi, total private flying may be a little less expensive. An operator’s base going rate for a B206 would be $600-700/hour. Some owners who lease back their helicopters get about $500/hour. With a DOC (direct operating cost) of $300/hour this leaves about $200/hour to pay the fixed costs

Your ongoing fixed expenses would include:

Monthly payment
Hanger fee
Insurance
Annual inspection and routine maintenance
The total fixed expenses could easily run $5,000-6,000 per month.

Most leasebacks are set up as a business, so if you incur a loss for the year you can offset it against your income taxes.

Purchasing an R44 can reduce most of the above numbers. Some insurance programs are set up that are tailored for R22’s & R44’s and are “reasonable.” I believe the R44’s DOC is about $150 hour.

Helicopters are easy to buy and hard to sell, unless you lower the price enough. I have seen helicopters listed for sale be on the market for 12-18 months.

Used helicopters do not really depreciate, their value is basically determined by the amount of life left in their life-limited components. The rule of thumb is 70% of a helicopter’s value is within those components.


Good Luck and let us know your thoughts.

P.S. All numbers above are in U.S. dollars. Rental rates must be higher in the U.K.
:)

Hughes/MD500
 

On behalf of an associate,

does anyone manufacture a fire fighting belly tank for a hughes 500 or its derivative ( 530 etc ). No listing on the simplex web site although a photo is shown for a spray rig also not listed.

I thought NSCA in their heyday had some but can't find any details


the cat

I've yet to see a 500 with a fire fighting belly tank so I cannot help you there. Personally, I reckon that if you are under 1100 litres, it is of little benefit, and only begins to be really beneficial over the 2500 litre mark. IE everything less than a medium Bell (205/212/412) like B206, B407, AS350 (including B series but at a BIG stretch maybe not the B3), BK 117, A109, and H500 series, should avoid belly tanks as a waste of fuel burned for water dropped. Medium Bell range can show good use of belly tanks, but the larger machines are where they really shine (B214 and up to that great bit of kit on the erikson S64).

The bigger the machine, the harder it is to handle the bucket manually, the less of a factor the extra weight of the tank is in percentage terms, the more damage a dropped bucket would be in an urban environment, and the more likely the aircraft will be used in the critical urban fringe requiring overflight of built up areas.

So why would you put one on a H500? Or rather, what agency would actually request one?

South African Police have a Simplex tank that they use for spraying and was told that they also use it for fire fighting.

Ned

ned is correct, SAP do have a simplex spray system on their MD500E'S, was there last week with them training. personally have installed a number of tanks for simplex. they do not have a fire system for the 500 series. also agree with helmet fire the smallest machine that can effectively do tank work would be the AS-350B3, simplex has available a very good ( bugs worked out) system for that airframe. have many good jpegs of the systems, email me if you would like me to send a few
dr

Hughes/MD500 questions
 

Im pretty excited, this weekend Im finally going to get a flight in a 500, probably the helo that got me into flying helos. As well as being my first flight in a 500, it will also be my first in a turbine.
Its a 500C, (369HS Kawasaki), with a C-18.
Ive been making my way through the POH, however some tips on flying the beast would be much appreciated.
So how about it 500 drivers, any advice for my first foray out of the 22.

Wellll ... if its a 500C then its got a C20 or C20B engine ... they go like "stink" and the "C" can be driven to the edge of retreating blade stall in level flight ...great little sports car ... enjoy it

:) :) :) :)

We had a 500 earlier this year with the c-18 engine , thing only burnt about seventeen gallons an hour and would sit at the 130kt vne all day

good heli , very stable , easy to fly but keep an eye on the auto's, once you hit the ground dont be tempted to pull back the stick as you will chop your tail off!

also watch out for landing on long grass especially on low skids or it will BBQ time,

fun heli

enjoy!

Lead with your thumb....trim the stick for big movements...move it for small small movements....and if you run out of top cyclic when making a tight turn near the ground....stomp that uphill pedal....while reducing your collective pull a bit.....might save your bacon!:ok:

500c ops
 

Spaced,

are you doing a conversion or just going for a jolly. Didn't know of anyone doing training on 500's as there are not many around for low hours pilots etc.

Is it really a C18 powered machine ??


Aaah the old VH-BAD Mk 2.

Great machine for low level recce and far better than a deathranger when it has the aux tank.

The eye

Arrrr what a giveaway .......

VH- BAG wasn't a bad (excuse the pun!) ship either .... nor was VH- PMY ........

:) :) :) :) :ok: (Does that date me or WHAT!)

Interested in why the 500 would be your first choice of a turbine endorsement, unless of course you have a specific need.

Enjoy the shake rattle and roll of the 500, let all the pilots tell you what great fun it is to fly and let all the engineers tell you what a dog of a thing to work on. After all that hop into the old 206 and realise why they are more versatile and less fatiguing.

As far as advice, make sure you spend a good deal of time inspecting the rotor head and are familiar with the damage limitations on the strap pack.

Spaced,
Would this specific one have a blue eagle painted on the side?:D

Firstly thanx for the relplies.

spinwing
Im sure that its a C, its 4 bladed main, 2 bladed tail, and its a C-18. Dont know if it makes any difference but its a Kawasaki manufactured machine.

whatsarunway
Shes low skid so Ill definately keep that in mind.

SASless
I get what your saying, but does that include transitionin, lead with the thumb?

catseye
A little of both. Im probably a little low time to do the endorsment now, but would definately be my choice to do it in. I know that flying the 500 will ruin me, and it will be all I want to fly. It will sure be tough squeezing back into the 22.
:ok:

that chinese fella
Like I said in my original post, the 500 is probably the helo that really got me interested in helos. The shape, the noise of the rotor, I just love them. I had resigned my self to doing my endorsement on the 206, as I had only ever seen one at our airport, and even that didnt stay long. When this one showed up, and I could take a flight in it I couldnt hold back.

For me this is a treat, with the exception of a blat in an Apachie or Cobra, I cant think of another helo I would really go out of my way to atleast fly once. My flying career is only just begining, and while I know intelectually that the 206 may be a better initial choice, in Aus anyway, love is blind, so the 500 wins!

Dynamic Component
No she doesnt, however she has been to WA.

Mate,
If you dont have a job flying the 500 after the endorsement and you are a low time pilot (less than 400 TT in my opinion) Dont waste your money. If you are just wanting to fly it for a bit of fun then Go for it. I 'm sure you'll have a great time.

If someone is trying to sell you an endorsement on it with the line that you might get a job with low hours on one then dont believe them but I am sure you know that already, This is just friendly advice. I recently bumped into a bloke who spent 8K on a turbine endorsement because he was told he might need one, He had 107 hours when he got the endorsement and has got NO chance of getting a job flying one. The 8K would have been better spent on a 44 with ten hours P1 to consolidate the endorsement. This is just my opinion after spending a few years in the industry, I am be no means an expert and hope I am proven wrong .

Good luck with your Jolly in the Hughes!!

Hhhhmmmm,

Kwakka 500C, low skids, C18 in Australia.

Not VH-KFZ is it?


Go for a R44 or B206 endorsement, there's a much better chance of the investment paying off.

Is it a shiney black one or a fire engine red one?

The OH-6A got me started in helicopters so I understand what you are feeling. Enjoy your flight in the 500! There are those of us who still fly for the love of flying and not because the proper endorsement will lead to a position of great wealth and high esteem. Fly whatever you want whenever you can and don't listen to the girly-men about their iron lung like B-206A's with boosted controls and slug like performance.

Rich Lee, looking at Spaced posts, it would appear that he may be a student looking to make his mark on an already crowded industry. I would suggest that those with low hours get an endorsement on a type that is commonly used in the low hour areas of employment, usually tourism, ie R44, or B206. In Australia I don't know of any 500's used in such ops.

I'm with fatter bloke, your money could be better spent, although the 500 is great to fly.

pohm1,

If you're from SE Qld? then you should know of a aircraft of that exact description doing exactly that:}

Ooh man-I almost confused myself there:8

At least if it is the same one it should have a lovely new set of blades on it... Oh what a feeling!!! ;)

DC

Its a new one on me, where is it?

A bit of clarification here.
The company in no way pushed me in to this, it was completely my idea.
Im still at the stage where I fly for the love of it, and look forward to a career in it. Would the money be better spent on a 44 or 206? Almost certainly, however its not like I have the prospect of making the money I do now when I start my commercial flying career.
I know that Im not the only one, but I have really given up alot to pursue a career as a helo pilot. Lots of work, no holidays, staying home alot, so its also a bit of a reward to keep me going.
I think the biggest decider for me was that I wasnt even sure that I would ever get to fly a 500, so when the opportunity arose there was no way I was going to let it go.
Thanx for the replies.

Mate. You have chosen well. There are few helicopters as fun, and as affordable as the 500 to get endorsed on. Of course there will be knockers, but most will be the "green man" syndrome. I'm sure you may even get to x-hire this a/c albeit maybe icus, but go on, have a great time in it. I love them.

JA

pohm1,
If my memory serves me corectly its somewhere in Brisbane.
I think it may be from Archerfield?:}

Spaced,

Enjoy the 500, as I (and others) referred to, they are good fun to fly. Sounds like you are in a fortunate (read no-doubt well-earned) position to follow a passion. Good luck to you.

Afterwards you could also grow a cheesy 70's Pornstar 'tash and pretend your Magnum PI..............

Jokes aside, good luck with the endorsement!

TCF

Spaced..

The Thumb rules...in all phases of flight....if you are going to move the stick....lead with the trim button...as the stick force disappears...stop beeping the cyclic trim. When making small..small cyclic movements...no need to trim...but if small movement for a longish term...trim the force away.

Check with your instructor first before leading with the thumb button when trimming cyclic forces

Leading with the thumb is the exact opposite to what I was taught as it burns out trim motors due to the much higher workload they are subject too in overcoming the cyclic forces.

I think you will be shown to position the cylic first then trim out.
After a short period of time you'll be doing it without thinking about it.

Call the Aeropower boys they have around eight 500's I think and they would be more than happy to yarn with you about it

Fly safe

spaced
 

been flying yet? What were your impressions.

The cat

I got tied up with my work over the weekend and had to put it off.
:{
Looks like the same for this weekend, but the weekend after Im determine to get up.

Hughes/MD500 questions
 

Hello all you out there.

Does anyone here know what is the operating cost of hughes 500?

Try Helmut at the URL below:

http://www.aogheliservices.com/

Tricky one really, depends upon what you are using one for and where in the world it is.

I have owned / run them for over 10 years, tend to be very reliable, but here is a quick run down for a UK based one.

Insurance £ 9000 to £ 14000 on £ 250k hull value with betterment and xs bought out ( £14 k is for any puropose )

Annual inspection £ 2500 plus retification

100 hour / 6 month inspection £ 600 to £ 1200 depending if compressor needs inspecting.

Fuel 25 imp gallons / hour

Component costs are what they are - use MD's component reserve figure, suggest you add a bit as things do not always last, espically if the machine flies as a private one. Eg blades leading edge erosion strips.

Worst ever year running one £ 32k on 250 hours, but this included 2 new main rotor blades and FCU. But insurance at the time was £ 6500 and fuel was .15p per litre !!!!!!!!!!

You will not have more fun in any other type of helicopter. Given the option buy a low skidded D model, the best of the type.

thank you!

This helps.:ok:

OH6A/MD-500C Vne Question
 

Stolen Post from another less professional website....

I don't have my manuals at home. A new pilot called me that was flying an OH-6 (MD-500C) at 10,000 feet MSL and had a bad MR vibration at cruise speed of 100 kts. slowed down to 85 kts and it went away. It does not do it at 3000 feet. I told him I thought it was retreating Blade Stall. Anybody else?

My response was the aircraft was exceeding Vne and thus could have been approaching Retreating Blade Stall, some responses had to do with compressibility problems.

The aircraft in question was clean, light, and had a 20R engine vice the -18 that the type normally had. The OAT had to be very cold....event happened a few days ago.

Any ideas?:confused:

the two combined could have caused ice on the top or the bottom of the blade causing the angle of attack to grow thus causig a temparary less than normal vne, but im only a student but that sounds like the thing
and i fly an oh6 to and its not a 500 c its a h369 just to be correct. :D

you are dealing with Yanks my boy....an Easter Egg with a hard-on....with V tail is a C model 500....if it originally came with an olive green paint job and military radios it was an OH-6 or Loach.

But you are correct....in one way....the type certificate for the C model shows 369....the OH-6A...which this one is....being on an Experimental certificate is an OH-6A. This OH-6A you fly....which engine does it have installed?

Please explain how ice can form in clear air and very cold temperatures....no rain, snow, sleet, condensation nuclei present.

Don't have a "C" model book, but the "D" has a Vne of 94kts at 10K and -10c at a weight above 2500 lbs.

Helimark...

The C model would certainly be well below that number....thanks.