Does anyone have current cots per incurred in $USD terms?

Doesn't have to be accurate, just ball park figures. Mainatince/future components/fuel based on 400-500 hrs per ann

Op's are small amount of commerical, but mainly tourist charter



thanks in advance
:confused:

Two of my pals have just imported an MD500c (Hughes 369 HS).

You can read about it here

Joel:ok:

i must say it looks very original and straight a good find !
are they putting it on the g reg? or leaving it on the n reg?
log

Hi

The intention is to transfer onto the G-REG

Joel:ok:

Six blade head; Good or Bad?
 

I'm doing a bit of research into the whole H-6/H500 family of helicopters and I have a few questions about the latest version, the H-6M and the AH-6X/i series. These helicopters have a six blade main rotor head (apparently lifted from the MD600N) and a four blade tail rotor.

1. What are the benefits of the six blade system over the previous five and four blade heads?

2. Does it have inferior autorotation performance characteristics when compared to the five or four blade system?

3. Does the six blade system offer greater responsiveness over less-populated heads?

4. I think it was mentioned earlier that the older four blade system outperforms the five blade system at very high altitudes. Does the six blade head compound this problem and if so, can it be compensated for by simply having a big, powerful engine (which it appears the H-6M is fitted with)?

5. Should the 160th SOAR and Boeing consider reverting to a five or four blade system with a more efficient rotor blade design for extreme high altitude ops in places like Afghanistan?

On to the canted four blade tail rotor. Apparently this system has not met with universal approval from the 160th pilots. The A/MH-6M are due to go through a Block 1.0 upgrade soon and a yaw stability system is slated for installation.

1. What is the reason for mounting the tail rotor disc at an offset angle from the vertical?

If anyone can offer any answers to these questions, they will be greatly appreciated. Thanks.:ok:

500 Fan.

Would assume that the only way to increase max auw is to
1. Lengthen mrb's etc as per FF model However then have to slow blades down to stop tip going too fast. Easier solution add another blade.
2. Dont forget the 5 blade machines have a lower service ceiling as the certification is for flight at max auw. 2550lbs for 4 blades and 3000lbs for 5 blades, hence some of the decreased performance is due to higher auw.

Looking forward to those in the know answering other questions. I believe the melb as max take off of over 5500 lbs:eek:

MD500 Tips/Rules of thumb
 

Hello, I was hoping someone might have a general "rules of thumb" for the 500. Something like what you find all over for the Jetranger. Anything would be appreciated, thanks.

High step when walking around all models.

The skid toes are much higher than the 206 and it's really, really embarrassing to forget. :uhoh:

I was once told that for every pound in the tank over 200Ibs is 2 pounds less on the hook...Anyone else heard that??

Why are there so many NZ 500 Pilots walking away from running machines?? Under FAA, CASA, DGCA & JAR regs its illegal to leave a running machine unless equipped with control locks, not just frictions, but locks??? hmmmmm whether by regulation or not seems to me like a pretty dangerous & unsafe practise :cool:

Get off your high horse its common practice all over the world and totally safe.

Risk versus regulation, don't confuse legality with perceived safety. Many civil aviation authorities have tried to "regulate" safety. It doesn't work. There are many cases where it is safer to leave the controls and check things for yourself. Shutting down may not be "economic". Time, start cycles, control of pax, etc etc. How would you feel letting your pax load and close the doors or walk into the tail rotor while you sat there at the controls all smug and legal?

This has been a lot of debate about it in NZ in recent times. Some flight manuals preclude it. In NZ you may make a case / petition and if there is no objection or the risk is assessed it may be approved subject to conditions.

How many machines with "locks" have had them removed lately by the manufacturers because the pilot has managed to take off with them "on" or worse engage them in flight? I am aware of several. It cuts both ways.

Regulations are for the guidance of wise men and the obeyance of idiots. Legality does not always mean safety.:rolleyes:

There are more helicopters per head of population in NZ than just about anywhere - 750 machines for 4.3 million people? 105 of those are 500's. Unlike most countries a helicopter in NZ won't even draw a second glance. In fact someone gawking at a helicopter in New Zealand is obviously a "tourist."

Well Said...
Kev.

RVDT, taking off with control locks ON, hmmm how can that be when the controls are LOCKED? So cannot move the controls or the lock is U/S. The 350's I fly have a collective lock but no cyclic lock, installed by the manufacturer & there is no way of taking off with it on - IMPOSSIBLE to move the lever. I flew OH58 on ag work which had both lever & stick lock for the purpose of exiting machine whilst running. We don't leave the Pilot to usher PAX but have a trained ground crew for that job, so no tail rotor mess??? Simpler & safer than the Pilot leaving the controls & maybe a village idiot hopping in for a play whilst the Pilot is on the other side managing PAX.

VF - I would just guess its horses for courses :ok:

Cheers

Ned

Bet there has been more accidents with guys SITTING IN the helicopter then the pilot seat empty and its running. Usually if the helicopter flies away by itself its an insurance job :ok:


This topic has been beaten to death

500 track and blance question
 

I did a track and balance on a 500D recently. At 60kts the vibes are .094 ips and the aircraft is glass smooth. At 120kts the vertical vibes are .113 ips - still smooth but with pulling more torque now the 5per is noticeable and shows up as a growl in your butt {insert joke here.}

I know most "working" 500's rarely get below .2 at 120kts so maybe most folks have never noticed this phenomenon before. Running a spectrum shows the 5 per is .579 ips. I know that once the vertical reaches .1 or so it unmasks the 5 per.

Tried posting over on JH but, well you know... :ugh: Any suggestions for minimizing the 5 per without roughening up the ride?

F-W1
We discovered that all the blades weigh a different amount and that the 3 big blade shops master blade all all different weights :ugh:
What we do now is as follows
We puchased a very accurate set of scales where we can measure not only the whole blade but the tip weights as well. We then spraypaint the blades to equalise tip weights as well as total weight. We couldnt believe the difference in ease of balancing the machine. Only problem it does show up is the dampers, which unless they are all of the same age produce a problem. This problem doesnt manifest itself in the hover normally in forward flight when you start to pull a turn, you will then find out which damper is misbehaving. However at this stage the ac is very very smooth.
If you have a mismatch of blades eg blades with different erosion strips on them you will never get it just right !
Best of luck, let us know how uou get on.
By the way what track and balance kit are you using ?

You couldn't do our 135, you seem to know your way round the old blades and ours is rough even though the computer says all is well within limits.:ok:

.094:uhoh: ok for starters

H500, I know a company that shall remain nameless that balances the disk by modifying tip weights :oh: This one's probably a bit off on the tip weights since I've touched up the l/e paint a couple times now. Lateral balance shows to be good though. I'll pull up the MicroVib data and see what the lead/lag looks like. I did touch-up the paint on 2 of the tail rotor blades and used a postal scale to get the tip weights within 2 grams of each other. They only took 3.5 grams to balance at 100% so pretty happy there. I reckon the idea of starting with equal tip weight, main and tail, is spot on. :ok:

Thing is, the same set of blades were smooth as glass two years ago before we changed the head. I dunno but a 5P being .579 seems awfully high. Funny thing is how many folks don't know the difference between the 1P and the 5P. :ooh: I've got the question out to DSS and the factory. We'll see if they come up with anything.

Ah now the EC135, been trying to get my hands on one of those for a few years now. Seems no one wants to let you touch them without prior experience :*

Which is probably not unreasonable.

Yep, those crazy, wacky, Americans. Why, they'll let anybody with a license work on just about anything! And the accident rate is...why just about the same as other countries with their draconian regs :E

Why you would ever think to let a guy with experience on everything from C150's to G350's and BO105's to TwinStar's even touch a precious 135 is beyond me. I bet I couldn't even figure out how to unlock the doors :}

Thank God for the HR folks otherwise the aviation industry in this country would be on a one way ticket to oblivion! :rolleyes:

Seriously though, it isn't like these things are going to the moon. If the engineers would share just a bit of their info we all might be a bit better off. It ain't rocket science what the blade shops are doing. If they would tell us in the field what they do to the blades as far as balance goes, we all might be a bit better off. :hmm:

Flung Wung 1,

May be of interest - RWAS

Price was around £13.k Fob AU if I remember ( I await correction) & that was 2 years ago + at the time they had no data for the 500s.
Fling-wing1
How do you find the DDS, both for ease of use & service are you part of the UK agents

RVDT, thanks for the link - brilliant stuff! Just the type of thing I enjoy reading :ok: Sorry bout the post the other night, no offense meant. Was feeling a bit cheeky, couple glasses of wine will do that :E I agree, it's not unreasonable to want folks with experience working on your ship. I do think a zero tolerance policy often misses the boat though. A person's background and experience should be factored in before making a decision. Factory training goes a long way to help with that situation. However, there's a lot to be said for the knowledge learned in a mentoring situation as well.

500e, I'm doing contract work in the states right now so can't comment on the situation in the UK at the moment. DSS support is great. They don't always have an answer but they will try hard to find one for you. Pretty knowledgeable folks as to track and balance too. I've never been disappointed in the level of support and help they've offered. The MicroVib takes a bit to get used to but it's pretty user intuitive once you get the basics down. The processor is pretty old so it's a bit slow compared to the Chadwick 2000. I hear a new one is coming out one of these days but they won't provide upgrades so you'll need to buy a new unit. :* 12-13,000 USD is out the door price these days so I hear. I bought mine used a few years ago so not up to speed on current pricing. Overall, I'm quite happy with mine as well as the level of support. Never had a problem getting info (group files and machine files) for the 500's. DSS guys are quite up to speed on balancing the 500 as well. :ok: Got a buddy who claims a DSS rep came out and had a D model like glass in 5 runs using the computer solutions. Never worked for me but then I tend to not use the computer as much as the track data. Never had the DSS training though. :}

Here's the lastest:

Talked with some folks over the last couple days and here's what we came up with for those who might care...

The DSS and factory folks say the 5P is usually somewhere around .2 to .3 but can be as high as .5 to .6 ips on the 500.

On this heli, a 5P of .58 ips is the what we have right now. Since the human body is more sensitive to the 1P which occurs at 487 cycles per minute (main rotor rpm) , the answer is to roughen up the ride by throwing a blade out of track so the 1P increases up to around .2 to .3. This has the effect of fooling the body into not noticing the 5P, which occurs at 2428 cycles per minute, as much.

I still wonder why changing the head would increase the 5P so much but so far no one has been able to give a good answer. Too bad there seems to be no way to modify the 5P which is the naturally occurring vibe of each blade.

Thanks for all the input and ideas over the weekend. :ok: Sure would love to hear from some of the guru's like Shawn and Nick, :8

MD500E River Rescue

Hmm, if the two guys fell off as it was lifting away from the water I wonder how it would react to the sudden weight change?

Reminds me of a time while fish spotting in a Hughes, I was dropping a buoy close to the surface when the darn thing got hung up. In two shakes the fish spotter had his headset off, seat belt unbuckled and was out on the float using it as a trampoline.
The seas were a little rough, if he had fallen in it might have been tough to get him back onboard. He would have had a tussle with a shark or two while waiting for the boat to show up.. :ooh:

KJ - Among the 'lite' helos the 500 is probably the best suited for managing sudden changes in lateral loading. A couple of decades ago one (sometimes two) deer handlers jumping on and off the right skid of a 500 would have been a daily occurence across NZ!

CarSick - A little somethin from the past:

http://tunaseiners.com/blog/wp-conte...04/moggy85.jpg

HM

..................and all the Fish Head soup you can eat! Bonus!

Cheers HM..........

There's a Hughes in the first pic, must still make it relevant to the thread ;)

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/a...erseKim106.jpg

http://i895.photobucket.com/albums/a...erseKim104.jpg

Wanting a little help from all you out there with experience in the 500E model. I've just got a job flying one on Ag and commercial opps. I am wanting to know the best way to do a power check for a confined landing in this machine. Thanks in advance..

The quickest way (if you're working operationally) is to get as close as you can (safely) to an OGE hover, observe all the numbers (and ambient temp) with your current loading and see what you've got left. Do the same on a regular basis to check ongoing engine performance.

If its a standard E model and so long as you ain't too high and too heavily loaded, confined ops shouldn't normally pose a problem. Just make sure you've enough power to clear the confined area (vertically) with sufficient space to nose forward from the top of the vertical ascent and gain forward speed - better to make two trips and than one permanent one!

HM

as a post script - should you ever be tempted to 'load up' n' go out of a confined area when you're too heavy, just remember that this could be you ...

UnZudowned,

Until you are familiar with the machine there is this blue book normally just to the right of your head (when in the pilots seat) in a little box that should be placarded "Flight Manual".

Check out the Performance Section.

Do a few sample scenarios and derive a few "Rules of Thumb"

It beats guessing by a wider margin.

In some countries this is actually a requirement and may also be in yours. Check the details.

Here is a question, I have heard people say that the MD 500D is faster and more reliable than the MD 500E why?
The only difference I see is the pointy nose and the different tabs on the T tail.
Hughes 500 you have owned both why is this?
Please fill me in!

Starflex
The other big difference is the bigger end plates on the horizontal stab. The first couple of hundred E 's had a strake on the point of the nose and a surfboard on top of the dog house, supposedly as they had problems with the airflow over the horiz stab hence trim tab and end plates. I presume this slowed the machine down. many pilots claim the D is smoother, cant say I have noticed.
The D model has a higher vne of 156kts v 152. However I have owned 4 E models ( 2 with surfboards, 2 without), fastest was 135 kts at max continuous where as my D will do close to 145 at max cont. Mind you none of them like going that fast. Normally cruise at 130kts pulling about 72 psi in a D
Not sure they are any more reliable other than they were made by Hughes rather than MD. I suppose any company when it takes over another always looks to reduce costs. However I never noticed a difference.
Still one of the most fun machines to fly nearly 50 years after it was born, says alot for 1960's engineering

OH-6A with a big tailrotor?
 

Does this OH-6A have a D-Model tail-rotor fitted? It looks a little bigger in span than the regular tail-rotor currently fitted to the OH-6A and 500C.


(Yer man seems to be more than a little happy to see this machine!)

500 Fan.

Thats just how i sounded when i picked mine up last week !!!! Having never had a 500 before i have to say it takes 5 min to feel really comfortable flying it ...and 10 min to fall in love with it :)

500
 

Hey Nigel,

You bought a 500 and sold the french thingy??

Congrats

See you next time Im over in Hull from sunny Florida

Geoff