Does anybody else understand HeliHubs last weird comment.I can't write...I'm a pilot!

Neither do I work for Shephard but I do visit Staverton quite frequently .

Anyway back to the thread. I agree with those who compare the MD902 and EC135 to Girl Friends but which is the Essex Girl?! I think the EC135 has the looks but the MD902 is a beaut to fly.Cant comment on the relevant intelligence levels though !

seniortrooper- as with any helicopter, it depends on kitting.
The EMS fit in U85, the machine that did the proof-of-concept in Qatar was capable of carrying two litter patients. We had the normal set-up of one litter on the APLS, and a 2nd litter that has approved restraints for the floor. Both of these litters have decent medical access when installed together. On one HEMS flight we carried 4 patients. Two were carried in seats as the paramedic could not leave them due to administering pain meds. Two were litter patients. The terrain was not conducive to ground transport and local rules did not allow a return flight to pick up patients due to darkness.
To answer your question- 2.

I view the Explorer as the ideal EMS machine. You can operate it the same in winter or summer- no downloading fuel when it get's hot out. Great OEI performance, great access room in the rear for medical folks. Very pilot friendly machine. If I had my choice, that is the machine I would be flying.
The only things holding the Explorer back are the McDonnel Douglas sale to Boeing, Boeing stopping production pending sale, RDM giving new life via MDHI and getting several out in the fleet as well as making some really nice improvements- RDM -MDHI going belly-up and support and production again stopping, Patriarch - MD making the machine cost prohibitive to purchase and then completing the company turn-around at 360 degrees instead of 180 degrees.
Fantastic machine but is constantly held back by the company that produces it. The fuel range is a drawback too, but when placed against the competition it is a wash. Other machines have to download fuel to carry the mission weight and the 902 always carries full tanks.
The guys bitching about the NOTAR vs the tail-rotor have to re-think their opinions also. The NOTAR on the Explorer doesn't like a right quartering tail-wind at high weights or DAs- show me a tail-rotor machine that does! Put the wind off the nose or quartering head-wind and it sits all day- just like a tail-rotor machine. I don't think you see many folks doing long-line or hoist work in a tail rotor ship with an un-favorable wind either.
On another note, if it was such a poor machine- why does/did EC spend so much time bad-mouthing it to customers and constantly spreading dis-infomation about the NOTAR system and the Explorer in particular. I do know this has happened around the world. I worked for MD and travelled the world performing training and demos. I got to hear all the things EUROCOPTER (marketing folks) told custoemrs about the Explorer and the NOTAR system. You only spread that kind of dis-information if you are worried. Again, if it is such a poor machine, why did they worry so much. Why did they design a "new" rotor system that is a carbon-copy of the MD900 main rotor? I could go on------

mrfriskel,

No doubt all of your statements are correct but as you know for all the right reasons the thing doesn't sell because it can't. They have cornered all the right reasons to not sell the aircraft.

So who is going to keep up the license fees to EC for the Notar Fan design?

The thing is the Edsel of Aviation. As a car the Edsel wasn't bad either.

Substitute as appropriate.

Mark has seen the love. RVDT hasn't.

Great collection of photos on your website gallery, Mark.

You are correct- it is not selling because it can't. No changing that. I am just supporting the acft is not the fault. It is a very fine acft, and I personally belive one of the best designes for it's weight class. I have often wondered if Howard Hughes put a curse on the company when he left! Every time the product line gets headed the right direction there is a new road-block. Usually that roadblock is in the form of company capital either not being available or being used in the wrong places.
Anyway- my point is it is not the machine, it is the people behind the machine and behind the scenes.





Thanks BT

But another thought,

Run the company through a bankruptcy, recapitalize it appropriately. Drop the 520n, 600n, keep the 902 as well as the E using the new RR500 and the F models with a C30R3.

To compete with Robinson and the R66, start the C model back up.

Re-invigorate the spares business raising volumes and lowering pricing and costs with a drive to increase hours flown.

Sell to larger player once fixed.

Buy another company, repeat process, retire at 72 or maybe 76 if things keep going as they are with respect to retirement plans in the world.

Why the RR500?

Parent companies.
 

Notar or not to notar, after looking at the parent companies of the 3 light helicopter makers, I found the following;

1. The EADS eurocopter company made 43.3 billion euro's in 2008 according to Eurcopter's website, and EADS employ a workforce of 118,000 people. They appear to be concentrating on building aircraft, and not buying and selling companies to make a buck.

2. MD seem to be a smaller setup and I think they now produce a couple of airframes. The MD company partners LT and Joep seem to specialise in buying and selling distressed companies (trucks, make up kits, tassles, tanks etc) and then closing them after a few years such as RDM?

3. AugustaWestland appear to be a very large Anglo Italian company with large revenues and military contracts in both countries. The partnership has been running for 20 years according to their website with large order books for various arframes.

If I was an ambulance charity, police force, or a rich individual who was about to purchase a new multi million pound helicopter I would be looking closely at the support network of the helicopter manufacturer, and especially at the people who are behind the brand name, which may have changed hands a few times over 10 years?

Its the same if you were buying a car, if you werent sure of the parts network for a car in future years, you probably wouldnt buy the car would you?

I've flown in all 3 a/c 902, 135 and 109, and the 109 was the fastest and most modern cab from a drivers point of view, the 135 was the least smooth but is a modern cockpit, and the 902 seems to have more room in the back compared to the other 2.

That said, the EADS and AugustaWestland companies appear to be in it for the long run and concentrate of manufacturing aircraft, but I'm not so sure about MD and what LT and Joep have in mind? :hmm:

For Thomas Coupling, re your rant that goes from "The 902 is doomed." to "...they're all doomed Captain." How many hours have you got on the '902?

lets have bets

i say less than 1 hour

How cynical! TC's authoritive style led me to imagine he was a TRI/TRE on type!

Then why not lease?

Handy in an ambulance!



B Thruster aka NotaLuvver!

'NotaLuvver'?

Was that name given to you by a girlfriend Bertie? :D

TeeS

girlfriend?

'Course, for the price of a MD902 these days you could also buy a B429 or EC145, with even more room in the back. As Mark already mentioned, the new owners have hiked prices in order to try and squeeze cashflow out of the business (similar to what Schweizer has experienced).

Unlikely to be popular with many MD500 operators, since it would preclude use of PMA spares.

I/C

One of our visiting Docs says he finds our 902 easier to work in than the 117. Something to do with bulkheads.

leasing option
 

Re bertie Thrusters leasing option,

I believe various air ambulance charities are now catching on to how expensive the leasing option can be.

Look at what the GNAA charity say in the the press.- It makes more sense to buy helicopters and have something to show for the money, instead of leasing a/c and having nothing to show for it at the end of the lease.

How much are MD902's since the MD price rise which was mentioned above?

Are MD still thinking about moving production or has LT got other plans?

That's why they call it the notar.
When most professional companies were asked if they would like to operate the 902, they unanimously said: notar :D

seniortrooper,
A gudun :D

Not what I heard from a very senior redtop man a few years ago. The training staff all wanted 902 but the exchange rate at the time made it too expensive. So they went for the 135.

As an aside, I spent the greater part of a day last week waiting for a 135 to be released following what was meant to be a short scheduled service at a police unit. The aircraft went off at 0900 and wasn't released until 1700! One problem according to the engineer (very respected by me and others there) was the nightmare paperwork provided.

I have lost count how many times I've experienced this with the 135 (earlier this year the adjacent 135 unit lost theirs for 5 WEEKS! Strangely not reported on pprune or by PAN News:rolleyes:)

I am current on both types and have in excess of 1500 hrs 135 and 1000 hrs 902, and by my personal experience the 902 is, on balance, the better aircraft. I like flying the 135 a lot but I am regularly mystified by the absolutely virulently negative attitude some peolple have towards the 902. The only thing they seem have in common is that they aren't type rated on it. (it can't, of course, because some have a vested interest in pushing Eurocopter products...oh no:rolleyes:)

Also, when when people trumpet the industrial might of Eurocopter or AG, why can I hear the "Imperial March" from Star Wars playing in my head? (der, der, der; der, dee, der etc. there it goes again!)

I'm off to finish putting up my new bike shed!