Aerodynamik

You are repeating yourself and quite needlessly, we've already established that:

a) Civvies bring different skills and experience
b) Some (by far the minority) very experienced officers do not make good air observers

To be honest I don't think that civvies recruited directly is a great idea, some relevant experience in a policing role is vital.

And, believe me, a 500hr PPL could not do a perfectly good job they would spend most of their time concentrating on the fact that their brains were screaming in abject terror and trying to find a way out of their heads - especially at night and/or in poor wx.

Zorab

They're clearly just doing it to wind you up, now.

As another outsider looking in, I would be worried about a 'civvie' observer without several years of experience dealing with people in dark and potentially dangerous council estates (for example) sending ground officers in directions that may endanger them just to try and resolve the issue on the ground (possibly because this could be the thin end of the wedge, and they'll start giving the Obs targets to reach to justify the spend on the AC)

Also, paarmo is living in the past a little bitThe 15% limit was lifted in (I think) 2007 and you can now contribute 100% of your salary.

Obviously you could only do this if you were working as a hobby (or had a military pension :p )

Paarmo wrote:
Crab is a jocular and friendly term that the Army and Royal Navy use when referring to the members of the junior service, ie the RAF. [email protected] is a member of said junior service.

They in return, keeping up the spirit of inter-sevice rivaly, refer to us as Pongoes and Fishheads respectively. :ok:

Edit: that "invalid hash" should read "crab at SSAvn.co.uk". :ugh:

If yer lucky...:E

So whats a REMF then ?:}

Er...the type of person who thinks civilianisation of uniformed jobs is a good
idea?:)









Abzorba69 - sorry I got your handle wrong:E

The term "Crab" arose out of the fact that during WW II, service personnel were issued with a blue fatty paste to smear on those regions affected by an attack of "crabs" - for those unaware of the disease, it's easier to post a link - Crabs Sexually Transmitted Disease

The (RAF uniform!) blue paste was known as "Crab fat", as described in the contents of a POW First Aid Kit The term Crab Fat Blue was coined by the other services, common parlance reducing the whole service to "Crabs". Subsequent phases such as "Fly Navy, Sail Army, Walk Sideways" have sprung from the epithet!:ok:

Canvas Bra @ - your dyslexic/anagramatic apology accepted!

zorab64,

WWII? I believe that the term dates back to the First World War, when the RAF was formed 1st April 1918 and issued their uniform the colour of crab-fat grey. The term was already in use from c.1910 to describe the grey paint used on warships in the Royal Navy, but as you state, it derives from the colour of the ointment used by the RN for genital lice :yuk:

Sometimes we accumulate all sorts of useful information ;)

Thank you John - I have no reason to doubt the earlier time-line (than I had been led to believe) and will be pleased to update my databank of crab-facts as a result!:ok:

I wish I'd never asked now. I only thought it meant civilians are really brave or something similar.
Hustler you misread the post on pension contributions I think. I meant that 15% is what the Government can force you to pay not the total overall contributions you can put into the scheme. It does not conform to any other system for various reasons mainly the age at which the pension is payable and various family benefits.

The Government can FORCE me to pay 15% of my salary? My god is there no end to their meddling in our lives? And to think I only pay 7.5% of my salary . . .

The magical figure of 15% could refer to the maximum allowed by HM Revenue and Customs (boo hiss) that you may contribute into a pension plan.

I was led to believe that the crab ointment was the same colour and consistency as the Light Blue Blanco Polish that the RAF used occasionally on their Webbing Equipment.

Funny old thing, Once I asked the assembled throng of crabs and WAFUs (fish-heads) Sirs, why don't you polish your Flying Boots? Answer in chorus - Because boot polish is flammable!

REMF = Rear Echelon MoFo = derogatory term for someone in a military unit who is deployed but never faces the enemy, also could be a member of a unit that doesn't deploy.

I also learnt from wikipedia that Pongo is the genus for Orang-Utans. Thats probably where it came from!

What Limits - I was always led to believe that "Pongos" resulted from the Army going to war in grubby fox-holes etc & not getting adequate opportunity to wash. No specific criticism implied, just a statement of fact that "everywhere the Army goes, the pong goes"!

Readers should also be aware that the term "fish-head" is used by the Naval Aviator for non-flying, specifically ship-driving, officers of the Navy, whereas the jocular term for the aviators by fish-heads is WAFU, as in "Wet & F***ing Useless"! WAFUs never like being referred to as Fish-heads, as an invitation to the bridge of a ship was often a pre-cursor to an unwanted interview with the Captain - WAFUs prefer the safety of their flight deck, normally out of bounds to anyone (especially fish-heads) not connected with their confusing, complicated, noisy and dangerous business of flying . . . and sunbathing!! :ok:

With apologies for digressing from the thread.

One only has to read posts on other threads by Paarmo to realise he is ignorant of many things, in fact I believe may be a "security operative" at Teeside. I find the ignore button a wonderful invention. It keeps trolls out of your life far better than any Harry Potter style spell.

Sir Niall

Aeroman. I am not looking for respect, just expressing a point of view.
Demented. If I am ignorant then please tell me where I have gone wrong. Is it the equipment on the aircraft or the fact that the Police are the service of last resort and are the only ones willing and able to go into dark and dangerous places. If we can't count on the Police to do this who are we gonna call? Ghostbusters?.
By the way stick to observing from the air because you will never make a Detective.Assume nothing and you will always be right.
Police on the ground as a service of last resort and civilians assisting in the air. A natural fit.

Getting back to the original post - looks like things are getting pretty hot there ready for the new guy ! :eek:

http://www.pprune.org/rotorheads/376...elicopter.html

I hear that one force has decided to deploy its observers on the streets if the aircraft is down for more than three hours. The pilot is left to man the phones and in the event of the UEO being absent he is expected to make a decision on calling in mutual aid :hmm:

Droopy,

Civilian Obs at some bases, civilian pilots and civilian pilots acting as DUEO's (I do believe that Cambridgeshire had a civilian UEO for quite some years).

This all seems to me to strengthen paarmo's argument for getting the bobbies out on the street and totally civilianising air support.

Fly for Fun - you have the right end of the stick . . . so long as one realises that:

1. a smattering of civvie Obs (rather than complete civilianisation) is a good compromise, and

2. civvie pilots are invariably ex-military and, as a result, have had plenty of experience in dealing with significantly more difficult decisions than those required in a Police environment, whether it's the flying part or the DUEO substitute.

Cambridgeshire did have a civvie UEO for a few years - but he was the retired original Policeman UEO, until blots appeared on the copy-book! I believe they then employed another civvie (retired police plank pilot?) for a short while while they "analysed his skills"! My understanding is that this resulted in Cambs taking shelter under the Essex PAOC umbrella, who still have a proper Police UEO! :ok:

I'm afraid I can't agree with paarmo on the total civilianisation, however, as previously mentioned.

Errr.... no.