Gyrocopter involved in murder charge
 

Just heard that an anti flying a gyrocopter has decapitated a hunt supporter ?

Usually it is the gyrocopter driver that gets the chop.....this certainly needs investigating.:uhoh:

We had a Bell 412 lop off a photographer's noggin but no charges were filed....that also needs to be investigated.:ugh:

News film shows the aircraft as GRIFS on BBC news at Ten

When and where did that occur??

Report in the 'Times'
 

From todays 'Times' newspaper;

Two arrested for murder after hunt follower is killed by gyrocopter - Times Online

A keen hunt supporter has been killed after being hit by a gyrocopter believed to have been monitoring hunts in the area.
Trevor Morse, 48, died after the incident at Long Marston airfield, near Stratford-upon-Avon, Warwickshire, yesterday. Two men were arrested on suspicion of murder and were being questioned by officers in Leamington Spa last night.
Between 80 and 100 huntsmen were out yesterday at the hunt in Moreton-in-Marsh on the last day of the Warwickshire hunt season. The hunt met at the village of Todenham at 11.45am and the gyrocopter, first spotted at noon, followed it for about two hours.
It is understood that an animal rights group, Protect Our Wild Animals, has been monitoring the Warwickshire and the Heythrop hunts from a gyrocopter over the past three weeks. Masters of the hunt told The Times that a gyrocopter had been reported to the Civil Aviation Authority and the police about ten days ago, amid fears that it was upsetting animals. The light aircraft was said to have been swooping in an aggressive manner over the hunt.
The police could not confirm last night whether the same gyrocopter was involved in the accident. The identity of the pilot remained unknown and it was unclear whether any other passenger was on board.
Civil Aviation Authority records show that Bryan Griffiths, of Bed-worth, is the registered owner of the gyrocopter involved in the fatal accident. There is no indication that he was one of those arrested.
Emergency services were called to the airfield just after 3pm yesterday after reports of a collision involving an aircraft and a pedestrian. The victim was pronounced dead at the scene. It is believed that Mr Morse had gone with a friend to the airfield to try to discover who had been piloting the gyrocopter. He and a woman were believed to have approached the aircraft as it was refuelling.
The airfield manager, Anthony Hodges, 57, said: “It was the only aircraft to land all day and I believe the aircraft hit him as it was taxiing on the runway.”
Alastair Jackson, director of the Masters of Foxhounds Association, said that he had written two letters to Thames Valley Police after complaints by riders of the Warwickshire Hunt. “There has been a bit of trouble for the last three weeks involving the Warwickshire and Heythrop Hunts and there have been lots of complaints from riders and farmers concerned about their livestock and horses being frightened,” he said. “We had great concerns there would be an accident involving a horse or farmstock, but no one dreamt of anything like this.”
Members of the hunt paid tribute to Mr Morse, a gardener and odd-job man from Alderminster, near Ship-ston-on-Stour. Although not a rider, he was said to enjoy following the hunt in his Land Rover and helping out with the hounds. His wife, Caroline, would not comment last night.
Sam Butler, joint master of the Warwickshire Hunt, said: “Trevor was a countryman of the highest quality. We have lost a friend of the highest order.”
He said that a gyrocopter had been following the hunting activity for three weeks, but would not be drawn on who was piloting it or their motives. “All I can say is that they did not appear to be hunt supporters,” he said.
West Midlands Ambulance Service said: “On arrival at the scene crews found a pedestrian that had been in collision with an aircraft. Crews immediately assessed the pedestrian, a man, but unfortunately nothing could be done to save him and he was confirmed dead at the scene.”
Penny Little, spokeswoman for Protect Our Wild Animals, was unavailable for comment last night. The group’s website says that it “advocates the observance of hunts by use of video and stills cameras to record the cruelty and vandalism of hunting”.
A gyrocopter, also known as an auto-gyro or rotaplane, is a type of small helicopter that can fly slower and lower than regular sport aircraft. It is forbidden to fly them lower than 500ft.

I make no apologies for this supposition, but if the gyro copter was piloted by an anti, it beggars belief how someone who claims to be against cruelty to animals can be so cruel to a fellow human being.

Thoughts with the family and friends of Mr Morse.

Droopystop,

The article said the Gyrocopter was taxing, so I would assume the Hunt fellow must have approached it in order to be hit by it.

Maybe he ran in to try and stop the machine from taxing and got thumped by the blades, that would not be the pilots fault. A pedestrian should not be on the runway/taxiway.

Anyway I'm sure we will hear all about it when the Cops investigate this properly


Ringer

Commander is always responsible for collision avoidance on the ground. If there was a risk of someone rushing out infront of the aircraft, the commander shouldn't have started taxiing.

My sympathies to the Pilot

"James Bond Swoop"

"Pro hunt" etc

The media really gets on my nerves putting in all these different sentences in order to make something sound sinister when it probably could have just been an accident.

Either way we know nothing.

Anyway, condolences to all involved.

Based on the various reports available (Times, BBC, Daily Mail, H&H etc), it does strike me as an accident - not murder. But, perhaps all of the facts are not out in the public domain yet.

There has been suggestions of questionable (low & 'aggressive') flying by this auto-gyro in the past few weeks; and I believe that a report was made to the CAA by the hunt. There has also been a suggestion that the deceased gentleman had gone to the airfield for the purpose of "talking" to the pilot.

I am sure the facts will out, but having lived in Warwickshire all my life, I can safely say that placing your whole hearted belief & trust in Warwickshire Police may result in disappointment. (I can substantiate this with upheld complaints of various natures and IPCC reports into their previous efforts at Major Incident Investigations). Personally, I would attach much more credence to the AAIB report.

Either way, my sincere condolences go out to the family and friends of the deceased chap - whatever happened to "live and let live?".

Thinking the same here, too. If he had been on the hunt and the incident had occurred there I would have suspected either malice aforethought or a poorly executed intimidation. But when it happens on the taxiway of an airport... What on earth was a hunter doing walking on a taxiway, and one frequented by his nemesis? Nobody should be on the taxiway without an aircraft around them. Sounds very dangerous.

It serves little purpose now of course, but isn't it an offence under the ANO to be on an airfield without good cause / authorisation? I am sure there are signs to this effect around the boundaries of most airfields (there is certainly one on the big metal gate on the way into Sywell!).

The ANO does restrict vehicular and person access to "aerodromes". I am not sure whether "aerodrome" means a one that is licensed or would include a private farmers strip. If there is a right of way across any aerodrome, then pedestrians have a right to be there.

But here is a question - how does the right to roam affect this scenario? If Long Marston is un licensed, does the general public have a right to roam, even on taxiways/runways?

Indeed anyone who operates to a private or unsecured site has to be cautious as to who might be lurking......

Accident or otherwise it is not a good day for aviation, hunting or antis.

Not sure if the ANO applies to licenced or unlicenced aerodromes - its all a bit academic anyway in this case; unless Plod decide to charge the friend of the deceased chap who was with him.


Funny you should mention that, because I happened to be looking at "The Parish Notices" noticeboard in the village I live in (in Warwickshire) only last week (don't ask why!! :bored:) - where there was a poster from the county council saying that less than 1% of the county was affected by "Right To Roam" legislation. A quick check on the website reveals that Long Marston isn't included; and I can't see a public right of way / footpath either.

Absolutely. A truly awful day for everyone!

Svenestron -

I didn't mean you were a part of the media.

In the Metro today, the article mentioned that the aircraft in use was what the badies use in james Bond movies!!!!

I almost wet myself.

Regardless of what the law says, it will always be dangerous for non-pilots to wander around on airfields because they don't know what to look out for and they don't know that they don't know it. I've seen an entire family standing at the approach end of the runway with their backs to the traffic, blissfully unaware of the danger.

This guy should not have been wandering "airside" but I can imagine someone demanding physical barriers to protect people. Not good for smaller fields.

What a bizarre event. The headlines and murder investigation would imply that the aircraft was deliberately manoeuvred to strike the pedestrian, whether airborne or landing. However, reading the articles it seems that the aircraft was taxying after landing. Now, if the man intended to remonstrate with the crew and stepped into the taxyway to try to force the gyrocopter to stop or entered the rotor disk without clearance or an understanding of the dangers, then the accident would be his own doing. I find it very hard to imagine that any pilot (no matter how 'extremist' his views) would deliberately attempt to kill a person by running them down with his aircraft.

This is of course my own speculation. I will be very interested to see how this investigation continues. The above being an accident would not excuse the alleged behaviour of the crew in the previous weeks. If indeed he was using the aircraft to illegally low fly with the intention of harassing people on the ground, I hope the CAA would take firm action.

'Right to Roam'
 

Droopystop asked - 'how does the right to roam affect this scenario?'

The term 'right to roam' is often used in conection with the Counryside and Rights of Way Act (2000 ?) and is very missleading. I think the term was first dreamed up by the jounos or the Rambler Association.

The CROW Act allows access to land usually over 1,200ft (AMSL) on 'unimproved land'. In other words land not cultivated in any way. Our airfield is at 1350 AMSL and we had a visit from an official who believed that the public would be allowed to wander accross it. We tried to convince him it wouldn't be a good idea but he only relented when he twigged that we cut the grass regularly thus making it 'improved' land.

Warwickshire County Council have a good website covering it here.

We don't know if the incident was just after land, before or after fueling etc.
So anything is pure speculation.
The pilot /s were arrested on suspicion of murder.

Could it be that they had had an altercation during fueling, the deceased had tried to stop the gyro copter from taxiing, by blocking the taxyway.
The pilot then manoveared his vehicle in an aggressive manor, striking the pedestrian.

Hence the suspicion of murder, especially if it was witnessed by other people.

Taking sides at this stage is ridiculous. As is my scenario, I am just trying to point out that there are only 2 facts. A man is dead and there was a gyrocopter. We don't even know for sure that the two had an interface.

So save your girlie bleating.

Certainly strange - it sounds like an accident but the police keeping people in custody for this length of time implies that it's not straightforward.

Tragic

SS,

Looking at the BBC video at about 0:25 onwards, it looked to me as if the propeller blade in the 7 o'clock position (as viewed from the nose) was damaged and delaminated at the tip. It seems to be fluttering in the wind.

The video's a bit grainy so it's not entirely clear.

BBC NEWS | England | Coventry/Warwickshire | Death gyrocopter 'followed hunt'

I am very reluctant to speculate about this, however, should an unauthorised person approach my aircraft I would immediately shut the engine down.

Is it possible that a trespasser came too close and the pilot shut down the engines and the blades descended below head height ?

Just my thoughts, but NO ONE should be trespassing on an airfield for any reason.

The investigation will eventually provide the facts.




http://www.timesonline.co.uk/multime...r2_500886a.jpg

Just a common way to stop the windshield getting dirty and scratched while the machine is parked. Probably just an automatic action like securing the rotor.

Me too, especially someone angry and known to be a non-pilot.

A photograph of the aircraft on 'ops' from a few weeks ago at the bottom of the page. Of course you can't judge the height, but I guess they wouldn't have taken the picture if it wasn't making a nuisance of itself.

Foxhunting and beagling discussion forum - Monitors in Micro-lights

And that is, of course the problem the CAA will have had in doing anything about it. I am guessing it wasn't fitted with a Mode C / S xponder - so not too sure how they would be able to tell its height accurately!

And on the subject of the hunt itself - is it possible we could debate this elsewhere (JetBlast, another forum); other than my general mantra of "live and let live," I'm more interested in the aviation related aspects - if any!

Politics and PPRuNE often don't mix nicely! :ouch:

no more talk about murder now, and talk of a collision with the copter....

Police quiz two over gyrocopter death | UK | Reuters


If it was a taxi collision, seems like a sad event but culpability may be on the other side.

Low Flying is irrelevant
 

Any question of low flying over farmland/a hunt is in no way directly relevant to the investigation of a fatality which happened on the ground at an airfield. Alleged low flying elsewhere and on other dates could not have been root acuse, contributory or aggravating condition of the fatal accident - so let's not muddy the waters by mingling the two occurences

I just watched the BBC news, and they claimed the prop, which is at the BACK of the gyro, hit the man; they also showed the gyro with a damaged prop. If you were in a gyro and decided to kill someone, how are you going to hit them with something behind you?:confused: It seems to me the man ran into the back of the gyro, and the pilot probably never even saw or heard him.

So unless I've got it all totally wrong, let's have no more emotive talk of murder, pro and anti hunting, and other irrelevancies. It seems like a tragic accident.

I can't see how the pilot can be charged with murder whilst taxiing.

If someone stands in the way of the aircraft and tries to force it to stop (other than a marshaller) then it is unlawful interference or an aircraft i.e. hijacking.

The only other alternative is an accident.

Actually you can taxi towards someone and the person would still be hit by the rear pointing propeller as the width of the prop is wider than the gyrocopters fuselage.

I don't quite catch your drift there. If I am taxying or even just sat there parked with the engine or engines running and I see a risk of causing injury to someone then I have an obligation to prevent harm to that person to the best of my ability. If that means that my aircraft has been interfered with then that is something I can take up later but there's a higher duty to preserve life, isn't there?

Many people are completely unaware of the risks posed by aircraft and will put themselves at great risk of a prop or rotor strike or of being ingested by a running jet engine without meaning to do that. I have occasionally had someone decide to make me stop by getting in my way, at great risk to themselves. Guess what? It works! I am not going to try chasing some muppet out of the way, given that he might see no reason to move out of the way of something he cannot see.

Let us hope this was an accident and nothiing more.

As a minor contribution, I am under the impression that unless they are actually on their take off run or landing run out gyrocopters generally taxi with the rotor blades static or nearly static. It takes flying speed to rotate the blades at a rate that would be dangerous.

On a taxi way a pedestrian could be struck by the body or the propulsion blades and I guess in the wrong circumstances could be killed by either. It would be terrible to learn that the piloit had played chicken with a protester on the ground, on the other hand the brakes on my aircraft, (not a gyro,) are not of the order of auto brakes. From 40 knots it take me maybe 50 or 60 yards to stop, if confronted by someone while moving I might not be able to stop in the kind of distance they might expect.

There have been several instances of accusations of low or 'less than 500'" separation, some of which have cropped up on Pprune, but mostly they have ended up being put down to mis-perception by inexperienced or agenda driven viewers. Part of the problem these days is that people seem to think it is OK to 'stretch' the unmeasurable when it suits their purpose.

Just a comment on the world in general, I was not there, and I just don't know. Why can't these people (both sides) get worked up about global warming and go out and buy some carbon credits!

Chuks, you are correct, if you are taxiing or parked with engine running and you see a risk to someones life of course you are obliged to save that persons life if you can. If you didn't take action, I very much doubt you would be charged with murder as the gyro pilot has been though.

If on the other hand, some angry person runs out in front of your aircraft and you fear for you own life/safety why should you stop the aircraft?

Edit:
From the UK ANO, section 146...

"Obstruction of persons
A person shall not intentionally obstruct or impede any person acting in the exercise of his powers or the performance of his duties under this Order."

There's only one lesson here. Don't take the law into your own hands :(

This is obviously a first post, so please feel free to accept the following or otherwise at your discretion:

From a third hand source and based on an eye witness account, this is what is alledged to have occurred at Long Marston. The hunt supporter is said to have approached from the front of the aircraft after pulling up in his Land ( or Range) Rover with his wife at the fuelling bay. The pilot(s) who were confused by what was going on apparently shouted to the man to move as they were pulling away, he approached the front of the craft shouting back "you are going nowhere." Again it is said that the pilots were heard to shout to move as they were taxiing and again he apparently repeated "you're not going anywhere."

It is then believed that he approached and tripped over the rear wheels where the blade unfortunately struck his head, however he did momentarily stand up, albeit with a severe head wound before falling down backwards to the shock of all present including of course his wife.

As mentioned above, this is third hand and partially chinese whispers so please feel free to fill in the gaps however you feel or even totally disregard the above post as required.....

Homicide is the killing of another person.

Murder requires the proving of intent to kill, or taking some action that could reasonably result in the death of another such as an assault.

If this guy was charged with "murder" then the state will have to prove he had an intent to kill. Just running over the guy will in itself not be sufficient to prove "murder".

But then in the UK....if you beat a Burglar's hind end as he sets fire to your house after raping your daughter.....you can find yourself in jail for assault....so who knows.

justice in the balance
 

A manslaughter charge used to literally hang in the balance in the uk.
A detective explained to me if you hit a burglar as he was halfway through a window and he falls dead into the room then self defense can be argued,(lawfull killing) but if he fell dead and is found out of the house self defense cannot be argued and a manslaughter charge can be the norm.
But this law was changed in 2005 after a public outcry of the murder of a jewellers wife in her home. And so it came to pass that it is ok to use reasonable force to protect "yourself and your property" even if such force results in hte death of the intruder.
Homeowners can kill burglars in self-defence, Government says - Crime, UK - The Independent

There is far less leeway when one takes action to protect property outside of the home, ie cars or aeroplanes.

If there are no independent witnesses then this tragic case may hinge on the seemingly minor detail of which way the poor chap fell, was he moving toward the aircraft when he fell or was he moving away?

Perhaps pilots as a breed do tend to wait until there is reasonable level of certainty as to the intentions of others rather than to take early avoidance?


mickjoebill

If the man did approach the copter (in anger or otherwise) and the pilot warned this man rightly not to approach (due to the danger), the man decides to continue nearing the copter and then trips, it sounds to me like a very unfortunate accident, and that the reason the man came close to the copter (because of his anger?) has very little to do with the accident.