The Belgian Police use CEPs because of the threat of loosing their hearing but they are used in combination with wearing a helmet.

I believe the helmet CEP combo is the way forward and if you can't have the CEPs at least have a helmet because that's is what is stopping the noise getting into your head.... This what I have garnered.

At the moment you don't see to be able to buy CEPs in the UK which fit under the helemet and plug into the helmet because Headset Services have given up on the one's they offered because they could not stand the abuse of wear and tear.

The Danes use these they will be on my shopping list next.

Rotorhead124,

Possibility you answer #78 post. It would prove of useful for us just beginning on this heli.

Merci!

Interesting news snippet in the corner of this week's show dailys:

:eek:

I/C

That'd be great, how does an mfd reduce noise though

The current version is very noisy and the new unit has an internal cooling fan which is considerably quieter.

Maybe I'm half deaf anyway, but I use an ANR headset which does the trick for me on the 92, having used CEPs in the military I much prefer ANR for comfort reasons alone. I could just cope with CEPs for a couple of hours sortie in the military, but I don't think I could cope with 7 hours offshore desperately trying to wiggle them into a comfortable position. Look forward to the new MFDs though :)

Decibels aren't additive, they're logarithmic, so this makes no sense at all.

You can't add or remove a component and say it adds or removes 14 dB under all conditions. An addition of 14 dB means you're multiplying the total sound energy by about 3.75 times.

It might add or remove 14 dB on ground with no engines running, but in flight it probably doesn't change measured dB level at all. If the thing adds 14 dB in flight, it would be like putting a third engine in your lap.

Almost certainly this, i.e. they reduced the cooling fan noise for the unit itself, but that will amount to the proverbial fart in a windstorm in terms of overall cockpit noise in flight.

Every word a brushstroke, every sentence a work of art.

Having developed an analog ANR system for Sea King AEW that brought noise dose down to 84dB(A), in 2000 MoD completed the 2nd phase, Digital ANR, that brought it down to 73dB(A); well within the anticipated (at the time) legal limit. That limit was delayed by many years but I believe it is now in force.

Any ANR system has to be tailored for the noise in that particular aircraft; and very often that Mark of aircraft or a particular seat in the aircraft. So, the Analog ANR designed for Sea King happened to work, by sheer luck, in Sea Harrier; but was absolutely useless in Lynx. The damaging noise came from different sources and at different frequencies.

While damaging noise is the primary concern, annoying noise is too. In the Sea King, the radar transmitter whining away in your ear.

With the digital system, the idea was before flying you plug your helmet in to a work station and simply press the button appropriate to your aircraft/mark and, occasionally, seat. It blew an EPROM. (The pilot in AEW received a very different noise from Observers; both damaging). I understand this programme was halted after successful initial trials, but stand ready to be corrected.

Another feature of this programme was to avoid pages of mind boggling decibel notation, and simply express the performance in allowable flying hours per year. ANR allowed Mk2 aircrew to go from 59 (far too low) to 320 (about right). But 600 was required for the ASaC Mk7. Litigation you see.

More recently, I've had cause to speak to Bose about their system. It is far too simplistic. Like most, it is a simple broadband noise reducer, which leaves aircrew short on audio cues. That is fine in the back of an armoured vehicle or for passengers in the aircraft, but not aircrew who rely on speech intelligibility and resistance to fatigue. The speech intelligibilty tests and trials were very complex and comprehensive.

My recommendation. Always ask if the system you are considering has been cleared for your aircraft.

An oddball.... In addition to it being an Aircrew Equipment Assembly, with ANR, especially aircraft powered, the helmet becomes part of the comms sub-system. It sits within the TEMPEST boundary, if you're flying such a beast. What ANR also does is expose design weaknesses in other areas; typically the quality of audio amplifiers in the intercom and the transducers in existing helmets. On the latter, the ones MoD used cost about £10 each; the best were French at about £1k each. MoD resisted.....but you get what you pay for. Interesting topic.

i am freshman of s92,i feel more viberation,but for the noise i feel it is normal and aceptable.hope you can find advanced headset.

Lost medical due to tinnitus and NIHL - S92
 

Hi
I would like to hear from anyone who has lost their medical due to tinnitus and/or NIHL flying the S92. I am trying to determine how prevalent the condition is and how pilots have dealt with the aftermath. Thanks

Hey Wifi......suffer in silence, don't tell anyone :ooh: the more info You give 'em the more power they have to use against You :mad:

Wify, can I suggest that as a new poster with little in your profile and no detail of the background in your post, you might struggle to get a worthwhile set of replies.

The red 'Journalist' warning lamp will be lit in most cockpits.

nothing good can come from sharing that kind of information with an AME.

I find this interesting, as I've had the condition for 30 years+ (working in industrial environments, flying rotary/fixed, racing motocross, rock concerts, etc.). It's only noticeable when the ambient noise level is way down, but completely imperceptible in a cockpit. In the medical examiner's quiet area, I can still hear his hearing test. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem to mask the wife's voice. :} How did this lead to the loss of a medical? In other words, how does it prevent you from performing flight crew duties?

You have got to be pretty deaf to not be able to fly. I would suggest the problem is from another source than that of the S92.

never mind the deafness its the detached retina im worried about...

It comes from sharing that information with your AME. Fill out the form truthfully, take the tests, move on. Since I'm not an MD, I don't list things that I think could be wrong with me. I let the doctor perform the physical and determine if I'm healthy enough to fly.

Not a current pilot but an enthusiast and with many hearing probs due to playing live music for years.
I now must wear moulded earplugs even in the car. Cuts out all the clatter and makes speech etc and radio comms very easy to hear but you have to turn it up a bit to penetrated the plugs...works a charm.
Hope that's of some help to anyone.

S92
 

Hi all.

Ive started flying the 92 about 4 weeks ago, and after just 50 hours my right ear is constantly sore after flying 6-7 hours a day.
Im using a Bose A20.

I see on the topic it has been a while since the last post. Any new tips/Technology I can maybe try?
Really disappointed after wanting to fly offshore my whole career, and now that I finally got a 92 job the ear problem...

I dont mind getting a helmet if that will solve the problem. But dont want to invest +$2000 on a helmet and not solve the problem.

Your tips will be appreciated.

Set those A-20 aside! Absolutely no passive protection and the active element will not handle the S92. I used the A20 before I was issued a company headset many years ago and I could feel the mechanism jumping about inside.

You need to do research into a headset that can offer as much passive protection as possible. But from personal experience the problem isn’t the ‘noise’ but the shockwave that the advancing blade sends into the right side of the aircraft and cockpit. I would recommend a helmet but I understand that this can be financially restrictive for some people. Try and limit the noise entering the ear and the shockwave resonating through the skill bone. My 10 cents worth.

LZ

Agree on the Bose A20. Compared the A20 to the Peltor CH5 and went back to the CH5. Much better protection I felt with the CH5, though obviously subjective.

CH5 is pretty good, baseball cap helps a bit with it, much better with something on the skull.

Not an S92 pilot, but I've been very impressed with the DC ONE X. The data sheet says 30dB at 150Hz with ANC turned on, and it's got enough passive protection that I've occasionally forgotten to turn on the active noise cancellation.

After almost 3000h in 6 years flying the S-92 using a A20, I'm quite happy with them. But a few times (very few) I perceived in my right ear what could be the shockwave LZ described. Pressing the ear cuff a little bit and waiting some seconds tends to solve the problem in my experience.

Can anyone confirm if any of the UK operators specifically forbid wearing a helmet? I read in an old post that Bristow did not allow helmets due to the perception from the pax

Something that was brought up at Heli Expo a couple of years ago , one of the Sikorsky engineers in the S-92 tech briefing was complaining various improvements asked for by users (Pilots/Engineers) after much development and cost were not being acquired by operators (Helo operators/lease Companies), one he mentioned was hush kits for the cockpit which drops cockpit noise by approx 20 dB, no operator had ordered them despite constant complaints from pilots world wide of the noise , maybe pilot unions need to push more for these improvements to be incorporated.

Whilst this won't affect the noise from sound hitting the head in I have "improved" on my headset somewhat. Caveat, this is not an advertisement for a manufacturer it is only my journey which has worked out well.

• I flew the 332 and 225 with the noise generators directly above my head.
• I bought a Lightspeed Zulu as the earcup material is supposedly made of Magnesium and thus more noise attenuating but I then decided to improve on this with a sheet of dynamat (car door insulation) and my HSE rep measured the sound and was shocked at how low the noise was.
• I also wear 9dB earplugs under my headset which reduces the high pitch hiss from ANR and avionics, they are moulded silicone plugs with inserts that can vary the noise attenuation. I recently found a small blob of blue tack clears the dirt off and returns the earplug to new clarity.

So ladies and Gents, your hearing is valuable please protect it, research and use products that will help you do so and innovate where needed.

Safe flights

Si

Had my first flight back in the 92 yesterday after 11 years in 225 and 332 doing mostly SAR. Wearing a Gallet helmet with Bose anr combined with cep, it wasn’t as bad as I remembered..

I’m not aware of any of the aberdeen operators that permit use of a helmet other than for SAR. The excuse varies depending on the operator.

Thank god that doesn't apply in Australia, the operators here leave that up to the pilot, not enforce petty rules, probably 1/4 of the pilots I know wear helmets, mostly Alpha's but some Gentex and a couple of Gallet, headsets , Noise cancelling David Clarks with gel ear cups fitted to aircraft , most private head sets Bose and Lightspeed.

Cost - they fear that pilots will want the company to pay for helmets.

LZ

I expect it is cost - The fear of pilots coming back to them in 20 years time saying that they've ruined our hearing and we weren't provided with good enough hearing protection. I can't see a cynical argument beyond that. We all know Dave Clarks are comfortable but rubbish. The early noise cancelling headsets made you feel better, but were letting all the damage through. I certainly don't want to be wearing a helmet for 7 hours - Tried one for a few flights and found it OK, but not very comfortable. And I cannot see any way that the noise attenuation would be as good as a modern headset.

I don't see conspiracy theories as helpful. Its probable that the operators just have to provide good quality hearing protection and I'm not particularly surprised if that Peltor headset is the best one they can find.