Regardless of licence or experience any pilot shoud not have taken an S76 into this congested area or any helicopter for that matter. Plain common sense should tell you that the area is completely unsuitable due to location, size, reject area and lamp posts!

It is just a complete lack of this that caused this needless accident, has been the cause of many in the past and will probably continue in the future unfortunatly.

Show some respect guys
 

I think some of you pilots should show some professionalism and courtesy to a fellow pilot. I feel name calling and slagging is unacceptable and I wish you all fly safe and don't end up being a Thread yourselves.

The press are feeding off this thread and they will quote anything so please be decent.

:cool:

Another round of posts with nothing to say on topic: gone.......:rolleyes:

Those of you who think it smart to re-post their deleted offerings, think again. I have already reminded earlier in this thread about the media quoting from Rotorheads: unsubstantiated rubbish will be put where it belongs, in the bin ;)

And those who did re-post, go somewhere else if you don't want to accept the terms and conditions that you agreed to when joining PPRuNe :*

Senior pilot and all, was it ever determined if this man was qualified to fly the S76? Did the insurance company approve him to fly this ship?

Monk

hi monk,
from the inside track, yes he did have more than the requirements to fly the aircraft and insurers have talked to him and the owner should recieve their insurance money relatively quick, unfortunately as senior pilot says a lot of rubbish by people who obviously dont know much about aviation, but then thats the rumour network.

exactly ragman...it is a rumour network. Its quite obvious some people need to lookup the definition of that word :ugh::ugh::ugh:

Clearly one rule for one and one rule for others.........:confused:

I'm surprised the mods have allowed this thread to remain at all, considering the way it has been taken. The pilot's name is in the public domain, as is his photograph. Some seem to be using the forum to be judge and jury. There is now an investigation in progress so the facts will be brought out. Why not cease this unwise speculation and wait until it is completed?

Wait for the official report?? People, please. It's not like this is Pam Ann/KLM collision at Tenerife or one of the two U.S. space shuttle explosions. A guy stuck a rotor into an obstacle and the ship ended up on its side. As SASless would agree, we're not exactly plowing new ground here in terms of the way this one went down, pun intended.

There is no doubt that communication between the pilot and his passengers was questionable. They were supposed to go on to Dublin, but the pilot reportedly didn't know that...they had permission to land in the parking lot, but he landed on the beach instead...

Okay, I think we can all - or at least, any of us who've flown Corporate - figure out what happened:


The rest is history.

A lot of us have been there. I know I have.

Now. Whether or not the pilot was properly rated/certificated/licensed to fly an S-76 as a commercial pilot will be easy enough to sort out. No rumor-mongering needed, not even on a Profession Pilot Rumor Network website. He was or he wasn't. If he wasn't, it's not the end of the world. He'll just have to deal with the consequences. And let's not even entertain the fantasy that he was really a "sales manager" (wink-wink) or some such for the company and was given an S-76 with with to visit clients. He was the driver...the paid driver, let's be honest.

The very sad part is that this pilot's career in the U.K. is probably done. Anywhere he goes, hat and CV in hand, a prospective employer is going to go, "You flew a '76 for Seamus Belton, eh? Hmm, Seamus Belton...Seamus Belton...that name rings a... Oh yeah! I saw that on YouTube! Thanks for stopping by though."

Here's a little something from today's Sunday Times.

American aircraft face crackdown - Times Online.

Good post FH1100 pilot...

FH1100,

I think you'll find the accident didn't occur in the UK.

From The Sunday Times (UK)
October 5, 2008

'IAA, the aviation safety regulator, has asked Revenue and the Department of Justice to examine the legality of using American-registered aircraft for commercial gain in Ireland.'

The Questions:
Why is the IAA, Dept. of Justice only taking action now? Where is the pressure coming from does any one know?

ShyTorque:Shy, if you examine my post *very* closely, I think you'll find that I never said that the accident occurred in the U.K.

As I understand it, the IAA and AAIU have being waiting for the "smoking hole in the groung including fatalities" so to speak for a while in relation to N reg heli's operating in Ireland.
This accident could have being so much worse than it was, (walking wounded only in a built area), but it has rattled people.

I think the article in the Sunday Times is the IAA marking cards and letting people know things are now going to change. Let's wait and see.

No, of course you know that Ireland isn't part of UK. But it did seem strange that you wrote about the accident ruining his career elsewhere, rather than where it actually occurred. :p

I think that the whole witch hunt by the IAA on N-reg an faa pilots is a waste of time. Most of our IAA inspectors are current FAA pilots they also fly in N-regs from time to time when it suits. All helicopters are supposed to be maintained to manufacturers manuals no matter what reg it it on.

I wonder if the story would be so big if it was a G reg or EI reg.?
This machine was maintained by a extremely reputable firm in UK, so it was looked after.

I dont think anyone is implying that there was a problem with the condition or maintance of the helicopter.the crash appears to have been down to the pilot and nothing to do with the condition of the helicopter.
I think the question people are posing is why are theses helicopters not Irish registered? If they are permanently based in Ireland and are flown by Irish pilots with Irish passengers in Irish airspace, why should they not have to abide by IAA rules and regs and be EI-reg? Everyone knows that 99% of the helicopters are only N-reg so that the owners can avoid the IAA. If they have nothing to hide why dont these Irish helicopter sign up to the Irish authority?:confused:

I wonder if i bought a car in America and shipped it to Ireland would the Irish government allow me to drive it without having it registered in Ireland and abide by Irish rules even if i drove the car everyday in Ireland, i lived in Ireland and i was an Irish citizen?
Its time for the IAA to wakeup and implement new changes.

Its good to see the pilot was uninjured and has got himself back up again and started flying on his N reg 407, more power to him, I guess his FAA licence is still working, good to clear the head and shake off the gremlens :ok:

FunFinn

"I think that the whole witch hunt by the IAA on N-reg an faa pilots is a waste of time. Most of our IAA inspectors are current FAA pilots they also fly in N-regs from time to time when it suits."

That is some claim. Is this true or a bit of speculation? witch hunt may be a bit strong though?

Funny how an authority will get criticised for action as well as inaction.

I find it hard to believe that inspectors are in breach of the very standards they are trying to uphold. :=

maybe this is an emotive rather than a factual comment possibly bordering on libel? :oh:

E 69 I am sorry but you just can't compare a car to an Aircraft.

As for the Gentlemen in the IAA some of them do have Both FAA and JAR licenses and you can search the airmen date base on FAA website,

https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airm...y/default.aspx

Why not?????????

This has been a massive problem in Ireland for the last number of years and have heard all the IAAs plans to address it....blah blah blah

How can a US registered Aircraft operate in Ireland in whatever manner it wants and the regulator has no say!!

I am sure a legal challenge would remove those who care to sit on the fence in Ireland ;)

Funfinn, i think you will find that you absolutely can. Just because the IAA is still in the stoneage and changes havent happened in a long long time doesnt mean that we should give up all hope. Im sure you will find that the government has update its policy and rules in relation to the import and use of america cars in Ireland in recent times...why doesnt the IAA do the same with aircraft????

I sincerely hope that the Irish Times article proves accurate.

I'm with Electric69 on this! The analogy with an American Car is spot on! You can't bring an American car into Ireland, leave it American registered & drive it on an American Licence with no comeback from the Authorities here in Ireland.
Take it a step further & you're now operating this vehicle as a Taxi in Ireland on American Plates......how would that be fair to all the Irish Taxi operators??

& yet an American Helicopter, an FAA PPL & away you go......:ugh:

It's certainly time that the IAA took hold of this problem by the short n curlies! Which brings me back to the Irish Times article....

He wasnt the only shark in the pond......still another dozen or so to be reeled in!!!

Does it work the other way round can you take an Irish registered helicopter to USA to operate?

Small problem with your logic....this was not a taxi for hire....it was a private limo. Weren't it?:ouch:

SASless is right, if it's not for hire you don't need an operators licence. You wouldn't need a Taxi licence for your own limo, right? (Well Micheal O'Leary does, but that's a different story)

If you want to stop people flying there private choppers on an N-Reg with FAA licences in Ireland, do you also want to stop the US Airlines from flying their Jet's into Ireland if the Pilot doesn't hold a JAA licence and the bird is on an N-Reg??

Might sound stupid, but at the end it's the same story, a FAA pilot flying an N-Reg in a foreign country.....

However, i do think the IAA should have the right to question the pilots and owners/operators of these aircraft whenever they want. I hope the new rules will help to make flying in Ireland a little bit saver.

RavenII,

I'm afraid that you're wrong. It's not all 'the same story'.

A foreign registered aircraft visiting a certain country is very different to a foreign registered aircraft being permanently based in that same country.

Bravo,

well, good point. I kind of agree.

In a small country like Ireland it might be very easy to prove where an Aircraft is based, especially if it's a Heli.

But where do you draw the line in bigger countries and, let's say, with a privat BBJ or a Lear? Not that easy.........

But like i said, i kind of agree with what you say.

In a number of European countries it's not allowed to fly on a FAA or ICAO license for that matter in a European registered aircraft. There's also the rule in some countries that a resident of that country cannot fly on a foreign license. In France a French pilot is not allowed to fly on a FAA license in an N-Reg as well.

In the US you're not allowed to fly N-Reg unless you have a FAA Pilots Certificate (full or validation)

So it would be quite easy to make it impossible for Irish citizens to fly on a foreign license without at least a validation.

Funfinn2000:
helicopter reported down in Ireland (EI-SBM)
Views: 14,163 Replies: 99

Helicopter Crash In Bettystown Ireland (N933BH)
Views: 28,631 Replies: 197

Granted, two completely different accidents in Ireland, but just interesting to see twice the interest.

Roofus Who is it unfair to if a FAA PPL flies an N reg helo in Ireland? :confused:

As for protecting work, if a country wants to protect work for a particular group it can make a law to just that.
Should aviation regulations be used to protect work?

What problem? :confused:

B.

From examining the AAIU website (Helicopters only):

27 x EI-Reg Acc/Inc (15 Acc)
13 x G-Reg Acc/Inc (7 Acc)
4 x N-Reg (3 Acc) (Not including Bettystown)

Summary out of the full list of reports, assuming this is complete.

None of the N-Reg accident/incidents was maintenance related.

Without wanting to comment on this particular incident.1) Can charter flights be carried out using N registered aircraft within a European Country/Sate.:confused:

Not being familar with the first event, my comment should only be considered partially informed. That said, the Bettystown event seems to have several otherwise unrelated elements, each of which merits its own "interest group" for commenting. Probably two or three distinct elements of this flight would merit their own thread. The fact these these otherwise unrelated all were associated with a spectacular crash, puts everything in one place for comment. No surprise to me that the comments have occurred.

I've learned that crashes usually occurr because of the combined effect of more than one out of place/wrong element. It would not seem like maintenance was a factor in this crash, but I certainly can see more than one other element combining to create an unsafe situation. Thank goodness it was not a lot worse!

Speaking personally, I've been holding back quite a few opinions on this one, for the very reasons confirmed, of the use of posts by the media.

The owner/passenger of the helicopter, and it's pilot, are not high on my "want to get to know" list.

Pilot DAR

Pink panther, the answer is no that charter flights cannot take place without the correct AOC unfortunately it seems to happen quite a lot here in the UK and I also understand it happens in Ireland and the rest of Europe particularily with jets, I also believe that a few G reg helis that have crashed in the past are in this category and also the recent EI helicopter is also under investigation. So N reg dont have the monoply

Preliminary Report
 

Only in Ireland
 

What a fantastic name for the investigator. Paddy Judge. You couldn't make stuff like that up.