Training at West Palm Beach: Ocean Helicopters /Cloud 9
 

Hi all,
Just wanting to know if anybody is training with Ocean at the Moment as I am heading over that way and would like to talk, info , cars , Housing ect :ok:

Speak to Gill. She'll be able to help you out with all your questions. Very friendly and very efficient. You're going to have a very good time. We work with them and they have a great team. Also great place to fly.
[email protected]

Hell pirate, they are a great school with great people working there. The school owns as student house where lots of the students and instructors stay. If you are only staying there for a short period, you could simply get a lift into airport with someone else staying in the house.At the same time the freedom of having you own car helps. The airport is approx 20miles from the student house and its pretty difficult to find anywhere else that is closer than this. Hope you enjoy your training down there and safe flying. :ok:

... apart from Cloud 9, the other school on the same airfield. Their student house is about five miles away. :ok:

Actually, the 2 houses are on the same street - both about 15 minutes from the airport. I'd personally go for Ocean - very friendly atmosphere!

choppertop..do you work for Cloud 9? as it seems they 'bend the truth' quite alot!! Now where on earth do they have a B206 as advertised in the UK Flyer magazine....ummmmm... Honesty is always the best policy!!

I did my hour-building for my CPL with Cloud 9 earlier this year. I have no professional or personal links to them whatsoever. As I have said on an earlier thread, I found the operation honest and well run. Geoff employs good people and knows his stuff. Actually I got a good deal out of him financially for burning 60 hours. I'm doing my hour-building for my FI with Boatpix -- which is even cheaper!

206 B3 - Cloud 9
 

Not at the Palm Beach location but the school has other training locations other than WPB. All 17 of our helicopters at North County would be too much especially with the 8 machines Ocean Operates.
We actually have 4 student properties a 6 bed brand new (Nov 2007) house, a 4 bed house and two 3 bed appartments close to the beach.
People in glass houses shouldnt throw stones in my opinion when they question our 'honesty'.

Hell Pirate,
If you didn't know before you posted, then you do now, there are in fact TWO Rotary Schools at North County (F45).

In some ways they are similar and in others they are completely different. like all rival companies, in a similar situation, one will always talk about the other in a negative way and vice versa. Perhaps in this case, this enviroment has rubbed off onto the students and they feel a sense of loyalty to the school they have trained at.

Personally I would make your own mind up, if you can why not go and have a look at both if you can. If you can't then don't worry, its a great airport to train at, whoever that is with.

As someone who has trained at North County, I would say that you definetly need a car. The airport is a minimum of 10 miles from the nearest school accomodation. In my case I originally got a car from the North County FBO and it cost a fortune! I then booked one in the UK over the internet, and got a better price which included ALL the insurances, picked it up from PBI.

Its personal choice but I went for the cheapest/smallest car because all I wanted was four wheels to get around and some A/C to stay cool.

Get used to Publix's, super market. If I wasn't flying I always seemed to be in Publix, sad but true. If you want some cheap food, go to the food court at Gardens Mall. The best subs were found at John Smith's on PGA Bvld.

If your buying any pilot equipment, don't get it from Banyan's at Fort Lauderdale Exec, its expensive! Get it shipped in from out of state so you don't pay the tax!

I ate out ever day, after a while it adds up! Save some money and make your own food.

They are my tips, I'm not sure who had the most helicopters and what type, didn't really care to be honest. I had a goal to fly every day and save a bit of money compared to the UK. I think I achieved both goals.

TJF97

Well said TJF97, Thank you, we prefer students to make thier own minds up by visiting both schools.

By the way your advice is spot on - I'm not sure if you trained with us or Ocean though.

Carrentals.com - best place for Car Hire, book it on the net, buy MUCH cheaper insurance with Travelguard and pick up the car from the airport when you arrive. This will save you a bunch of cash.

The PUB has reopened on Jupiter farms road - good food and beer close to both schools student properties.

This is an excellent training location regardless of which school you fly with (Ocean or Cloud 9 Helicopters).

agree F45 is a good place to train. I went to Ocean to do my cpl.. but when their 44 when tits up with an unforeseen maintnance problem Cloud 9 were prepared to help (not needed in the end)..

I had a great experience at ocean and will be back for my instructors.. not saying cloud 9 is better worse.. just passing on my experience..

While you are there make sure you pay a vsit to downtown 1 .. great spot for a landing..

Just thought I'd throw my $0.02 in here about Ocean Helicopters (and maybe a penny about Cloud 9). As a customer, I recently did some 206 Recurrent Training in Ocean's ship, which was required by my insurance company and actually performed by an outside company (Lunsford Air Consulting). Long story, not relevant.

But here *is* the relevant part: I spent a lot of time speaking with the owner, Dave Harmon, his wife Gill (pronounced "Jill") and their employees (most of their instructors and their wonderful, cheerful Chief Flight Instructor Pam Landis). I liked Dave. Good head on his shoulders and good heart. We talked about people we both knew in the industry. I could tell by what Dave said and how he said it that he is a kind, generous man.

I've been in this industry a long, looooong time and I have to say I was impressed with Ocean and their staff. They are all incredibly friendly, likeable, professional and accomodating. They have a nice facility (no on-site coffee though- what's up with that!) and nice ships: R-22's, R-44's, S-300's and the aforementioned 206 (which was gorgeous). I got a good feeling while hanging out there as long as I did; wished I could have stayed longer. Good people. Made me feel right at home. My impression was: Nice place to train. I liked the fact that they had such a wide variety of ships - Robbies *and* Schweizers.

To their credit, nobody at Ocean had anything bad to say about Cloud 9 - *other than* stating that the owners of Cloud 9 had once worked at Ocean, then they left and then started a helicopter flight school right next door. That's all. End of story. (I suspected that there was more to it, but I didn't ask.) So I'll offer my one and only observation:

The morning I arrived, I spent a little time watching airplanes and helicopters take-off and land (I can be such a geek, even at this stage). The helicopters at North County all seem to be stored in some t-hangars across the runway from where the operators' offices are. Each morning, some are air-taxiied across the runway to a ramp area, some are towed on their ground-handling wheels, and some are just accessed by golf cart.

Suddenly, one of Cloud 9's ships came flying across from the hangars at low-level and high speed. The pilot raised the nose into what was a...let's say "aggressive" quick-stop. But instead of decellerating straight-ahead and terminating to a hover, during the decel he side-stepped left and then right (banked turns), ending with a bit of side-flare as he settled onto his parking spot. I thought to myself, "Weeeoh! Hot dog!" My second thought was that this was definitely *not* the kind of flying I would be showing to my students. My third thought was that if *I* was Cloud 9's Chief Pilot, that guy would be in my office with his heels locked and one foot out the door. (When I later mentioned this event to Pam at Ocean she just rolled her eyes and said, "No comment.") I was *almost* tempted to go in and talk to Cloud 9's Chief Pilot, but thought I would just be coming off as some pompous, know-it-all jerk-off and so didn't. Opportunity lost.

So there you have it - my unscientific and unobjective evaluation of my day spent at North County Airport. I don't know about Cloud 9, but if I was a student looking for a place to get my ratings, I wouldn't hesitate plunking my money down with Dave and his happy crew at Ocean Helicopters, and I'd have a ball doing it. (But come on, Dave, get some coffee, willya? *REAL* helicopter pilots drink coffee and lots of it!)

Hi anti-talk. I presume you are from Cloud 9...great! So just to clarify, as advertised in the Flyer magazine here in the UK, you are able to offer the B206 for training and hire? And what's all this about glass houses??

Im over training with cloud9 at the minute, doing my PPL, loving every minute of it.. Flew solo today..

Regarding the coffee, theres a coffee machine between cloud9 and ocean in landmark aviation.. Plus on saturdays theres free pizza next door aswel..

I do work at Ocean. I moved there from a school inTexas because a couple of friends worked there and after talking to Pam on the phone I was sold. All the instructors at cloud 9 are good people(many of us trained at the same place - Bristow Academy) and there's no animosity between us. We share the same air and move over for each other when any of us ask!

Visit both schools and make your own decision - if you're gonna spend all that money on a licence then $1000 to come and check out the prospective schools is a good investment!

Bell 206 hire , L3,L4 at $1350 per hour in Orlando or a B3 in Orlando at $900,as advertised in Flyer Magazine!

I have 3 training locations, WPB,MLB and Orlando.

Also if you are feeling wealthy you can fly our BRAND NEW A109S for $3,250 per hour with me.

As for glass houses - keep your counsel until you have accurate information before questioning my integrity, you really dont want to go there. Check your PM's - I have been much more specific there.

Yes I own Cloud 9 Helicopters!

Re the quick stop, I do know the incident I am fairly sure what you saw was a downwind quick stop as access to our hangar space was conveniently blocked by other helicopters and a fence line (not ours!), there are nearly 30 on this airfield and a downwind, tail wind, level quickstop would have been unsafe, as would a downwind transition to a hover over a 5 foot fence line with a 10kt+ tailwind. Downwind quickstops with a turn and flare are actually trained in europe and are not 'hot dogging' they do however require a high level of skill and co-ordination.

Why dont we compare the accident rates of both operators - including that shiny Jet Ranger - there is a really, really good reason why it has a brand new paint job and new tail number!

Enough said I hope, lets stop throwing stones in 'glass houses'.

I did some training with Cloud 9 this year and genuinely couldn't fault them for flexibility and quality of teaching. They were willing to bend over backwards to help me train despite having to accommodate an additional person who wasn't flying in order for me to do so.
I haven't flown with Ocean, but having had problems with them getting in the way of manouvers on the taxiways and blocking hangers, I can't say I would particularly want to.

Davy07, congratulations on going solo.:ok:

Anti-talk, could you possibly PM me re how busy things are at Cloud 9 at present? Oh, and is Mike still there?

This spring, I had the opperunity to fly with Cloud 9.

I was on a very tight schedule. I came off a job in South America, and only had a few days accomplish some required training.

Knowing my work schedule, they went out of there way to make the aircraft available to us so we could complete the training. They even bumped a local student from the schedule so we coudl finish.

The school was busy, the machines were in good shape and office staff helpfull. No complaints. If I ever had a need again, I would give them a ring.

RB:ok:

GA..

Cheers :ok:

Ahhh, I see: You teach to a level *beyond* the FAA's PTS. You guys teach to some "European" level of skill. Well, I'm not sure that pilot would want to try that maneuver in front of an FAA guy who knew something about helicopters.

Look, I've been around the pattern a time or two. Don't tell me what I saw. What I saw was what I initially described: an R-22 coming over from the hangars to the FBO side and do what looked - to me - like a fairly aggressive, "hot-doggy" type maneuver that did not seem operationally necessary. Remember, I flew out of that field that day; and in fact, I spent quite a lot of time there hanging around and doing what I love: watching helicopters and airplanes fly. The winds were light and straight down 26. I saw where everybody was parking, including out in front of your office. And what I saw was not a "downwind quickstop" or any such nonsense.

But as I told you in my response to you PM, they're not my machines and not my pilots. And if that's the type of flying you feel is acceptable to demonstrate to low-time students (some of whom were also watching), it's *your* call.

Justify it any way you want, dude. Uhhh, that's the way they train in Europe! Yeah, that's it! Fine. But do not try to give me any weasel excuse that the pilot "had" to do that. He was having a little fun and probably didn't think anyone who knew any better was watching at 7:30 in the morning. And with maybe one exception, he was right.

lets add to the mix...for the sake of advice to the original poster.

I instruct at *one* of the schools mentioned.

I know instructors at both schools, (trained with most of them), and like most things in aviation it comes down to personalities a lot of time, and sometimes as a low time/new pilot, that's all you have to go on...so come visit both, then make an informed decision...you'll be making them for the rest of your career - so why not start now..

And to publicise F45, it's an easy going, uncontrolled airport with loads of interesting places to build cross-country to, and whatever is said here, rest assured when it comes to operating at the airport, safety and courtesy is the number one priority, and I have found both operators to be both.

And the free pizza at Sunquest on a sat is a bonus...it's a break from the ramen noodles for us instructors - thanks Tamara...

Hungry Feckers, go buy yer own pizza!!!

I am another vote for Ocean. I was one of the FIRST students through their doors and would have stayed there if it hadn't been for a long-gone partner they originally had. But that is ancient history and today they are top notch.

Never had any contact with C9, but apparently many happy customers.

And, glad to hear Tamara is still at Sunquest. What a sweetheart.

HOSS

So at 7.30 am you saw what you describe as an aggressive manoever at a deserted airfield,was it a solo pilot (CFI) repositioning a machine, was it in front of students, was a student on board and was it dangerous?

As I said in my PM I wanted more information - I wasnt condoning or supporting it, I am the Chief Pilot and I would indeed want to know if one of my pilots was 'hot dogging' ,as you say, when they thought no one else was around.

We all employ young CFI's who like to push the envelope, especially when the cat isnt watching.

We have a 100% accident and violation free record, which I am proud of (we fly over 7,000 hrs a year) and I am keen to maintain it.

Re European manoevers, there are a few exercises taught differently in Europe including the aforementioned quickstop (which does require skill and co-ordination for it to be flown well) - who are you to say that we only train to the FAA PTS. We have a very large European customer base and have 2 JAA instructors on staff and are currenly actively pursuing JAA FTO approval.

Please call me as requested in my PM to discuss (when it finally stops raining down here!!).

Well I dont know if you have made your mind up by this time, but I assume you have. Do you have any thoughts towards the school you went with? I am currently in your shoes. I have had the opportunity to sit down and speak with Pam Landis at Ocean Helicopters and found the company to be very welcoming and professional.
Last year I also had the opportunity to experience a trial flight with Cloud 9 (CFI Mike=Great guy). Unfortunately Geoff is usually with someone when I pop in, so I have not been able to sit down and speak with him making it difficult for me to dramatically compare.
However, the biggest difference I have seen in visiting both schools is that Ocean is very laid back and relaxed, where as Cloud 9 seems to be more business focused. (Less of a "Hi how are you" atmosphere).

I am inferring this as somebody who has just walked in without an appointment, and randomly asked questions, which I'm sure isnt a frequent occurance for them. (If you have ever been to f45, it's slightly off the beaten path and not a place where you would typically be driving by to just stop in).
There are 2 other Heli Flight schools at Lantana (KLNA), but I prefer not to have to drive that far everyday unless necessary. I plan on attending Ocean Helicopters "Learn To Fly Day" on May 15th and will be somewhat closer to deciding on a school then. Neither school has been able to give a concrete answer reguarding hiring post completion of CFI, which can be discouraging, but this is just simply a risk you may have to take to accomplish your dream. There's a risk for every career and they never promised it would come easy. Overall I think Pam was able to sum it up for me best she said, "All three schools (Palm Beach Helicopters, Ocean, and Cloud 9) are all 141. We all fly the R22. it just comes down to wherever you feel the most comfortable personality wise" For me, I think its going to come down to the most likely prospect of a job after completion.
Those are my thoughts and if anybody can help it would be greatly appreciated.

Eric

No school can give you a guarantee for a job, if they do it's a scam. They cannot judge beforehand how good you are, if you fit in the team and the timeframe you finish your training. If the current instructors don't move on (which is very hard in the current climate) you are stuck, and won't get hired. Bottomline you won't get any guarantees when you decide to become a helicopter pilot.

HillerBee sums it up nicely.

If someone is willing to give you a concrete job offer on the basis of you spending cash with them and they have never seen you fly or worse still you have never even flown as a pilot, avoid them at all costs.

Would you want to be trained by someone who was guaranteed a job at the end of their training but was not very good at it when they got there !

Even places like Bristow academy cannot take all of their trainees on, and I guess they pick the best ones who want to stay, they have a large pool to choose from.

I say good on both schools for being honest with you.

GS

Ocean Helicopter or Cloud 9??
 

Hy guys,

Thinking in adding a FAA CPL add-on on my licence, selected this 2.

Opinion on them please? Professionality of instructors?

Thank you all

Liftman

Met the guys from Cloud 9 at Heli Expo earlier this year through Paco.

Seem like good guys, and I plan on flying with them when I head down to Florida next.

Liftman

I would choose Cloud 9 over Ocean. Cloud 9 has better aircraft, facility, and all around good people to fly with. Not to mention Ocean had another helicopter crash 2 days go which is the second in 5 months. So they are down to one maybe two aircraft now, which is an Alpha model R22. I would contact Geoff with Cloud 9 they will get you done quick but with great training and no BS. If you want anymore info about the 2 schools just PM.

CNH12

Ocean Helicopters.
 

CHN12, I am one of the owners of Ocean Helicopters. Yes we did have a accident with one of our aircraft on a rental. We operate R22 Beta II's and yes we have a Alpha model too....but please if you are going to speak for my company get your numbers correct or please don't comment on a company you have no connection with.
If any one needs information, call me at 561-625-1900
My name is Pam Landis.

hi pam,

i did some training with you back in 2007 i think, back in the days when mr quigley was floating about. really enjoyed it but it was a bit unstructured as i could only hour build in the 22 and 44, as i couldnt do my full jaa type rating. anyway i did them in march and now have 300 hours of really enjoyable flying.

i now have a bell 206 rating but need more hours to work my way towards insured status as p1 solo. im looking at coming out this winter, 3 weeks over xmas perhaps. right, can you a revalidate my h300 jaa which ran out two years ago, b what is your b206 dual hourly rate, and, c, do you, or any other ppruners know of say a news gathering organisation where i can build big cheap hours being the tea maker and pilots dog body??? people say they know of such people but no one has given me any contacts. it would be great to do some serious training with you then go onto do say 30 hours b206 newsgathering?????
if this message constitutes thread creep then apologies.

Well Ms. Landis, Im sorry if I don't have my "numbers correct" but I will be more than happy to, so lets see yall have had BH206 tail strike, then in 35Z student pulled mixture, Hard landing hovering white R22, MD500 tail chop which was a police county heli, Schweizer into a house in Naples, R22 fuel cap through tail rotor and then this one just recently hitting the houses/car. So that looks like 7 accidents/incidents but if my "numbers" aren't correct I will recheck the NTSB website. And you are right I have no connection with you company but as an outsider looking in its like yall rather have the insurance company take care of the damage than doing proper maintenance.

you know what in my time flying helicopters i have met some truly inspiring people, including the guys at ocean. bear in mind i had just come from an academy that while proffessional felt like being in a pressure cooker that has genuinely left my brain fried. the guys at ocean were a breath of fresh air.....

but one common denominator is the willingness of helicopter proffessionals to tear strips off each other at a moments notice. the other day i mentioned an operator to a competitor and heard the words.. let me tell you about that outfit..... so i put my phone on speaker, and got on with my lunch. after 30 mins ranting i put the phone down a broken man. i can only put this phenomenon down to having an abundance of spare time to kill. day after day i see it happening.

you will find that by getting on with each other you will attract a wider audience, and boy do you need it. just chill out and bear in mind life is very short.

Seriously spiteful and uncalled for words, usually coming from an immature/inexperienced person.

@Pam

Do not rise to it. Usually these types have some sort of connection to your company, perhaps a disgruntled customer. Who knows? Needless to say that as 'outsiders looking in' they do not know the inside facts and to publish such poison on a public forum (let alone say the words in the first place) is careless and shameless. Their words are to be taken with a pinch of salt to say the least!

It's unfortunate when you have a spot of bad luck, you expect bad press from the sensationalist know-nothing media, but you can only hope that you don't get it from fellow industry people - my guess is this guy is not industry, I certainly hope not - this person doesn't display the composure one would expect in a pilot or hope for when flying with em'!

Best wishes
OAP

I noticed that this CNH12 guy has only 3 posts on PPRUNE so far. Also, could CNH12 stand for "Cloud Nine Helicopters"? If so this guy somehow regards himself as connected to Cloud Nine, maybe a student or employee. Either way, just turning up on this site and bashing one company over another should not be tolerated.

CNH12, how about you head on over to JH forums if you want to do that. You'll be taken in with open arms ove there with that kind of drivel.

I'm not in anyway affiliated with either of these 2 companies and have never even flown in the area. But like OAP, it bothers me greatly that we can't show more professionalism toward each other.

Pm me I have two good friends that are CFIs at West Palm

darrenphughes- CNH12 is my initials not cloud nine helicopters. My posting was to just help liftman on a school that he asked about. I just happen to know a few people who went there. If I was considering a place to spend my money I would want the same information.

Stringfellow "but one common denominator is the willingness of helicopter proffessionals to tear strips off each other at a moments notice."

darrenphughes "it bothers me greatly that we can't show more professionalism toward each other"

Old Age Pilot "careless and shameless"

So CNH12, just to clarify for us all, who are you working for at the moment and who did you do your PPl, CPL, CFI courses with?