Air Ambulance in UK
 

Anybody heard anything about the new HEMS contract at Bristol e.g. company, a/c type etc

Cheers

The rumour I heard was that the contract was/has gone to Sloane with a 109 Power. However, there seems to have been all sorts of pauses and changes of venue. As yet, I believe the operation has not started.

There have been changes in the Ambulance Trusts in this part of the world. New "trainsets" may be thought to be a good idea, but the realities of fundraising through a charitable air ambulance trust may not fit in with the wished/desired timescales of the new super-ambulance trust. Two of the counties covered by the new Ambulance Trust (Great Western) already have perfectly sensible air ambulances with an established fundraising setup.

Agreed. I'm fascinated to see how they'll sell the concept to the people of Wiltshire. How does this sound: take away a HEMS service based in near-enough the geographical centre of the county, operating between the hours of 0830 and 0245 (allowing time to check the aircraft/ put it to bed) at a cost of 30% of the running costs of the police heli (yet using up to 50% of the flying hours). Replace it with an aircraft based below a ridgeline to the west of the county which operates daylight hours only (although it might be able to extend to night landings, albeit only at suitably-lit hospital sites. NOT HEMS sites as at present) and covers 2 other counties as well. The person who can spin this little story successfully should be able to work for any PR agency in the world afterward. :yuk:

Tthat person might be an associate of the PR company used by an aggressive HEMS charity, whose "CEO" is actually a free lance fund raiser (paid by the hour), whose wife is that very same associate of the forementioned PR company.

That HEMS charity apparently managed to persuade an ambulance trust to use one of their helicopters in preference to the two other neighbouring HEMS charities (who were not even included in the process) in a recent Midlands upheaval involving the relocation of a previous HEMS provider.

So I suppose anything is possible down Bristol way!

It will be interesting to see where they base it!

Lulsgate won't be any good unless the machine is full IFR, besides the airport don't appear to be very keen on GA.:rolleyes:

So it'll be Filton with the Police then, not easy cramming another machine in that old hangar!

Chaps, this is all speculation, viewpoints etc.....but does anyone have any hard evidence....some facts......or sensible ideas???

Alas, you just all seem to be putting more "R" into PPRUNE.....................

I think Bosski may have been looking for a good answer to what is a GOOD QUESTION....!

Anyone else "KNOW" anything...?

:ugh:

Do we have any 109 HEMS drivers? I was looking at one the other day and couldn't see why anyone would want one..... Low rotor blades, instrument panal obstructing forward/ downward vision, small low cabin, tricycle wheeled undercarriage (nightmare to land in the mud), and an exposed tail rotor, o.k it goes 10 knots faster than other contenders but that would make for a saving of about 20 seconds on average journey time.

according to the press releases the 109 was "chosen" by EMAS to replace the County cab at East Midlands as it gave an "improved service", compared to the 135 or 902, as a HEMS machine!

( the improvement, apparently, was that it was faster and could carry two patients!)

If you want facts, wait for the press release. The site had moved to the Weston-super-Mare Helicopter museum, the last time I heard. :uhoh:

However, it hasn't started yet................

Good old press releases. Excellent way to get the facts!

Different area I know but just to give an example:

"The new Augusta 109 helicopter, called Derbyshire, Leicestershire and Rutland Air Ambulance, will be quicker and bigger and would be operated for longer flying hours and in worse weather conditions."

Read latest issue of Police Aviation News (Mar 08), Avon AA is now confirmed a B0105 leased from BAS. No mention of location but most likely Filton or Weston. So what happened to the Sloanes 109?

Like our colleagues have said before...."good old press releases"..........you can always rely on them for the truth.

Your question "what happended to Sloane?", well the last time i saw them, they were at Sywell doing quite well, dont you know!

Do we really trust the media to report the truth??????

I think i will wait for the official press release myself.

:=

I'm sure Sloane is doing just fine. I only asked that if the PAN article was to believed, what had happened to the 109 that Sloanes had ear-marked for the Avon contract?

We will see, eh? :rolleyes:

I heard this astonishing rumour recently that a patient of the East Mids AA and their new A109 had to be transported by road ambulance as they couldn't fit on the stretcher due to their height!!.... Does the A109 have a particularly short cabin?

Just been told the same thing, how the hell can you introduce a new aircraft thats not fit for role? Just wondering what happens to patients with traction splints fitted....

So does that mean that if you are over 6 ft tall and require the services of an airambulance in the east midlands area remember to ask the 999 operator for the lincs and notts or yorkshire airambulance to attend!!!!

Possibly because the A109 patient is loaded across the cabin rather than lengthways in the MD902 or EC135

Somebody better tell the comms units to revise there protocol.
A airway
B breathing
C circulation
L length of patient :rolleyes:

The 109 patient lies behind the co-pilot to the rear bulkhead along the LH sliding door,thus also lenghtwise. The 5th fuel tank must be removed to lengthen the cabin to accommodate 5.8ft stretcher on a box type assembly. Guess it is ok if your averaged size patient is 5.6ft weighing 60-80kgs. We are now getting a 109 shortly so we will see first hand how it works as our average patients(other than incubator cases) weigh 80 to 140kgs with the length to go with it. We currently often have to lift the shortened dr seat at the patients head in the Squirrel so do not know how it will work in the 109. Will let you know

I see, but the cross cabin dimensions of the A109 E Power are 1.62 m, as per the AW website, which is fairly limiting unless the majority of the stretcher patients are expected to be pygmies! or does the East Mids aircraft have the bulging doors that give an few extra inches?

Thanks, Victor Papa just read your post, this sounds life a real faff if you're having to alter the internal configuration for taller patients.

Patient was 6ft 2 in. Didnt go in ambulance. Went in the responders car!

902 has room for 8ft 6in. patient. (6ft 6in, if 2nd medic has to attend to the airway)

(Lincs/Notts was available but Amb Control thought it was a Derbyshire postcode.)


apparently (according to the launch day press release) one of the reasons the Augusta was better was that it could take "an additional patient", compared, presumably, to the local 902's or 135's !

What other profession tells as many porkies as journos?

Helicopter Sales Executives will come close :p

Helidata has twice run stories on the proposed Avon air ambulance.....it was last due to launch in May,based at Filton but there are funding issues and an argument with the Wilts members who resent efforts to take money raised for their air ambulance to fund the new one.
Helidata also confirmed that an independent fund raiser based in Northants was employed to seek sponsorship but doesn't appear to have been very succesful.
I am not aware that the contract has moved from Sloane to BAS...seems odd given that the Bo105s are going out of service.The last I heard it was still an A109.

Just an observation Heli1,

but if money is short, a Bo 105 will be a lot cheaper than a shiny new 109.

When Thames Valley started up they began with a 109. After a while they changed to a Bo 105, to save money. I believe they still use that type, although an EC135 is planned soon.

It is presumably more difficult to raise money for an air ambulance that does not actually exist.

Still got a year left, time enough to get the contract up and running with a Bolkow and then upgrade to a 135.


Lots of speculation in this thread, and same from the industry media. Interesting to note though that no one has actually confirmed that the contract will be a 109 from Sloanes, even though the paramedics were conducting training with a 109 at Filton last year.

A109
 

The A109 we have has an attachment point at the rear middle of the cabin, so if the patient is over 6'0 we can load them diagnaly. We can also swivel the co pilot seat and move it forward.This also helps if we need to load 2 patients. Providing the dual controls are no installed.
I can see the pro and cons for the A109. For our program it works well with Inner Hospital Transfers, and organ harvest flights. Awful in muddy fields!
Just my thoughts...:ok:

just noticed on the derbyshire rutland & leicestershire air ambulance website that they are using G-MEDS A109 so if this is the case what machine is being used by warks & northants air ambulance. G-MEDS was theirs & G-WNAA was the spare wonder if this has been changed

thanks :ok:

The 109 earmarked for Bristol has gone to Rutland, Sloanes couldnt wait anylonger. BAS will be providing the A/C for Bristol.
The individual who is in charge of setting the Bristol air ambulance does not know what he is doing. He is messing everybody around and people are getting fed up with him. GWAS have got thier eye on the money from the Wiltshire air ambulnce, and this is how they are going to part fund the Avon air ambulance for it to get off the ground.

Welcome to the thread, KK. First post after 8 years of lurking on PPRUNE!

KK,

I had heard that the GWAS were trying to do what you suggest. However, there are some problems with that.

The money given by the good folk of Wiltshire was given to a charitabke trust quite clearly set up to provide an air ambulance for the good folk of Wiltshire. The air ambulance trust is not controlled or owned by the NHS whichever set of never-ending management reorganisations of that moribund organisation is currently in place.

It seems to me that if the newly created Great Western Ambulance Service wants to set up and run an air ambulance it needs to do one of two things:

- pay for it itself;
- get someone to set up a new charitable trust with the goal of fundraising for the new activity

AS you indicated, I believe someone has moved from another air ambulance trust or setup and promised to raise the funds for the GW air ambulance. I had also heard that there had been lots of promises but precious little action so far.

Whoever is involved in this new venture may well expect some resistance to the idea of taking money from another charity just like that. I am defintely no expert but I believe that charities have trustees who manage the money on behalf of the charity. I would be surprised if they just rolled over, and handed over the money.........

It would be like Cancer Research giving all their funds to Green Peace.

Indeed, Helinut is correct. Trustees have a rubbish job: it's not paid,yet they can go to jail if things go wrong. It sounds to me like the Articles of Association of the charity state 'for the county of Wiltshire' and until these are changed, that's all the funds can be used for.

I - for my sins - am a trustee of another Air Ambulance trust, who set out to raise funds in another county with a view to launching a second machine in this county once enough funds had been raised...in that county. We're very nearly there after just 12 months!

It all seems to get very confusing when an ambulance trust becomes part of an air ambulance charity!

Bit like if the MCA ran the RNLI!

http://www.thisiswiltshire.co.uk/new...nt&cid=1469355

Thanks for the link, Bertie - good to see the topic is being kept alive in Wilts.

I've heard quite a few opinions about Ambulance Authorities which get themselves involved in the running of Air Ambulance charities. Same goes for trusts which take the wages of the ambulance staff out of the charity funds. Couldn't possibly comment myself, mind.

Thud,

"Same goes for trusts which take the wages of the ambulance staff out of the charity funds."

Care to expand on that?

Its fact that the air ambulance charity in wiltshire pay for the paramedics wages. The Great western Ambulance Service, who are the trustees of the Wiltshire charity are well aware of this and are happy with the arrangement because no one has challanged them.

KK,

I am not in a position to challenge you on this, but I rather thought that a trustee of a charity had to be a person rather than a limited company or a chunk of the NHS.

It is quite cheeky if the air ambo pays for the paramedics - I am pretty sure there was some sort of central agreement that paramedics would be paid by the NHS - is that your understanding too?

Yes your right. What happened in wiltshire was that the old trustees agreed that the charity would the paramedics wages for only six month and that it would be paid back. in those six months the great western ambulance trust took set up a umbrella charity with the wiltshire air ambulance appeal trust under it. They then changed the trustees and have not honoured that agreement. I believe now they are hoping that it folds and then they take charge of the money and that is how they are going to help to finance the bristol air ambulance. Mind you that is only my thoughts!!!!!

Hmmmm.... The Charity Commission might be interested in this....

I think there were, and still are, also odd goings on with the air ambos in your old neck of the woods, What Limits!


eg a fund raising 'organisation' to harvest the cash off the willing punters with this cash then passed onto the 'charity' that runs the air ambos. Strangely though, the trustees of this charity are exactly the same people as the board of directors of the local NHS ambulance trust!! :eek:

206 Jock,

Apologies for not replying straight away; my shift pattern doesn't always allow me time in the evenings to go online.

I think the replies that have come in since will adequately answer the question you asked me. Food for thought, eh?