Helmets in offshore ops?
 

I would like to get peoples opinions on wearing helmets in the North Sea Offshore environment.
Reasons for and against?
Should we be pushing operators to provide helmets to prevent hearing loss and protect our heads in the event of an accident or encountering severe turbulence?
The most damaging frequency levels travel through the skull and thus no matter what headset is used, it will not protect against the most damaging frequencies.:sad:
Your views and opinions would be appreciated.

Do you have a source for: "The most damaging frequency levels travel through the skull"?

It would be possible to do a useful study comparing the long term differences between bone-dommed military crews and headsetted civil crews with similar exposure durations in similar aircraft (SK vx S61, 330 vs 332).

Wearing a helmet is just plain smart, regardless of "environment."

Why is this still a debate in 2007???


RH

Do your give them to all your passengers?

Sadly we have to group together in order to convince Heath and Safety and bean counters that this issue must be resolved.:ugh:

Passenger do not sit in an area that if full of sharp obstructions they have a relatively cushioned environment compared with the cockpit and do not spend 800hrs per year in the noise levels we suffer.

Just wearing a cap over your head you will hear the noise levels reduce, with regard to a source backing this information, it is just what I have read on PPRUNE and discussed with other pilots.

Helmets in the North Sea?
 

Wouldn't they shrink? :}

Seriously, I'm absolutely staggered and surprised to learn that North Sea pilots don't already wear helmets. Here's one bean counter with whom you wouldn't have any argument!

Apart from cost, they only thing that I can think of that may be a disadvantage is whether a helmet would be an encumbrance in the event of a ditching. I've no idea whether they would, it's just a thought and a question!?

Cheers

Whirls

Our pax in the north sea wear survival suites, re-breathers and most wear plb's (Personal Locater Beacons) The cabin is trimmed and lined and there are no sharp edges or corners. They are provided with "spongy" ear protection and in the a/c they also have ear defenders issued. The crew DO NOT get re-breathers or a lined cockpit. I asked for a re-breather years ago and was told were to get off. I have also asked to wear a helmet and was told that "The pax would complain". Twice I have hit my noggin on sharp objects while in turbulence and f&*k me does it hurt.

Some years ago the crews were instructed by "D Management" to wear safety glasses offshore while re-fueling and pairs of said glasses where place in the door trim of the a/c. NO ONE wears them. If D Management cared about its crew then it would issue modern light weight helmets to its crews.

I for one would have no problem wearing one. Mines a medium.

I ditched with a helmet (night, November, sub-Arctic).

The helmet was not hindrance and in fact was a boon in helping to reduce heat loss from the head, better than any touque out there.

Outside Europe, what I have seen, the wearing of a helmet is at the discretion of the pilot (offshore oil flying). Some wear them, some don't. I don't in the summer due to the heat. I didn't in the tropics due to the heat. I expect I will again in the colder weather. I know I should. My copilot is wearing one today.

Never ceases to amaze me what can become an issue in Europe.

If you have done HUET training then you would Know that a helmet and a STASS bottle would not encumber U on exiting a cockpit(women and pilots first.) But apart from the limited protection from banging your head, wouldn't a good quality pair of headsets protect your hearing! Having worn a helmet in the Military for many years it was such a relief to fly with headsets in all enviroments. I think it should be an individual choice.

What ever makes you happy!!!!!!!:)

Some trivial information.

All HLO's AND deckcrew in the Danish sector wears SPH5 kevlar helicopterpilot helmets.

Mayby they know something we don't !!??

Having worn a helmet during my military flying I can well appreciate the benefits; in fact, I was quite surprised when I started my second career (in the offshore drilling sector) to see aircrew without, but while I believe aircrew should be given the maximum protection available, I foresee a snag.

Someone flying as pax will see the crew wearing electric hats, and will demand that they are made available to all onboard, without understanding the rationale for the crew to have them, nor the need for training in wearing them correctly to obtain the best protection, the supply and maintenance chain, hygiene issues and costs involved, which will have to be absorbed by someone.

To reitereate, in my personal opinion, the provision of helmets for aircrew cannot be a bad thing, but I can't see it happening.

Rotordk, the Danes seem to understand the helideck hazards rather better than others. A company I worked for provided the same helmets for our helideck crews in the UK sector, but without some compulsion to wear them, the helmets remained in the stores.

Following years of refusal (because all the passengers will want one was the excuse) to allow pilots to wear helmets our offshore company relented and will even purchase the item for you. It's your choice if you want one. And guess what, the passengers couldn’t care less. Indeed whenever the subject does arise the passengers are glad to see the pilots wearing them when it is explained how it adds to THIER safety as passengers.

Uhm... well I have worn one ever since I started flying and don't really give a damn what the pax or the boss may think of my head having protection. 16 years on, and now flying VIPs, I still wear it; had a few narky comments passed many times from cosmonaut, Luke Skywalker, for the more polite ones eheh, but at the end of the day, I made it clear it was take it or leave it...glad to say i am still wearing it
Cheers
WLM

Can I infer from that, that your employer wouldn't let you wear a helmet even if you bought it yourself? :ugh::rolleyes:

Cheers

Whirls

diginagain,

I haven't seen or heard of any passengers asking for helmets, even though
100% of them have seen the deckcrews and HLO's wearing helmets (DK sector).
Open ended question......who says the passenger would want helmets.....?

Has the AAIB from the Morecombe Bay crash been published yet? - I think that will have something to say on the subject of passengers and helmets (based on what the SAR crews found when recovering the bodies)

Whirly,
A couple of pilots did start to wear them without any sort of management approval and the management with the reins at the time made no comment, although they were tight fisted when it came to suggestions that the company might contribute to the costs, but as I said they did eventually come across. Previous management I'm inclined to think would have made life uncomfortable for anyone inclined to wear a helmet by regarding them as having less than the required amount of right stuff.

Impress to inflate has made the perfect argument.

It's really a no brainer get BALPA onto it pronto! Maybe by the time you retire you get it. :E I was always told the real helicopter pilots in Aberdeen don't want them plus the pax would want some as well.

Lets get the headset issue sorted out first for the S76 offshore flying never mind helmets!!! :hmm:
Too bloody loud those S76's, but then again, who would be flying 800 hrs a year in the North Sea? We only work 20 days a month:E:E! :mad:

Helmets? At more than £1k a piece, i'm sure management would rather not discuss this issue.

Had a chat with the friendly tax man the other week. He was prepared to give a tax break if I was to purchase one. Thats £400 back.

so, only £600 then. Bargain!:ok:

Still doesn't sort the headset issue out. Can I get tax relief on a headset?

Helimut

Yes!
Speak to your BALPA rep or your friendly taxman!

bondu :ok:

Hi Helimut as Bondu said yes you can (But this is provided you empolyer does not suply a noise canceling headset, see the following link;

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/eimanual/EIM50051.htm

rotordk, while I agree with you that the vast majority of pax probably wouldn't care either way, I have personal experience of the machinations of otherwise well-intentioned shore-based management.
As in many industries, given an opportunity to meddle in things that don't really concern them..............:ugh:

Guess it's not the pax then .

The pax are happy to get a ride home. It's the irregular visitor who might wonder why, if the front-seaters wear a bone-dome, why can't the SLF?

mayby the irregular visitor should wonder why the airport busses don't have seatbelts for the passengers, but only for the busdriver.

Ah, but in the UK our buses are fitted with seatbelts for the pax.

I recall the busses driving you to your departing aircraft lacks the mentioned safetyfeature in UK airports. I vaguely recollect the missing seats, but the straps overhead where there(not wellsuited for vertically challenged people).
The point is.....why can a person (irregular visitor..) with no aviation background be capable of determining the safety of something they don't have a clue about ?
Safety should be our first concern in all aviation decisions, shouldn't it !
Why is there 600 kg of safety-stuff strapped to the helicopter in the northsea enviroment, if the pilot is incapable of flipping the proper switches
at the right time (being unconsicous at the wrong time)!!??

Q1
A1 - Beancounters
Q2
A2 - see A1 above.

Since this tale of wonder has now been investigated and found to be lacking foundations in reality, let's no longer blame the pax for not getting a piece of safety equipment.

So, just still waiting to see if the 'promised' noise cancelling headsets are gonna turn up first. Believe they are to be ordered, but painfully noisy till then on some of our 76's.

Helmets
 

I find the argument for wearing helmets has taken on an almost evangelical slant much like that used by proponents of bicycle helmets by adults. This makes me worry that first it will be helmets for those who want them and eventually it will be mandatory helmets for all.
One of my better days was when I got out of the military and was able to take off the helmet and put on a headset. The idea of sitting in an S-76 in Karratha in the summer makes my eyes water, having to wear a helmet at the same time would probably bring on early retirement.
On 19 June the Australian newspaper reported that "the inquirery into the Black Hawk disaster on the HMAS Kanimbla last year heard that Capt. Bingley's helmet got snagged on the helicopter's antenna as he tried to escape. He managed to free himself after submerging 30m, but could not be revivied."

dpale - you believe what you read in a paper? Ask yourself if he could not be revived who witnessed the fact he got snagged. If you want to wade through the inquiry report you will find that it was the co-pilot who got snagged, and further, the helmet saved him from an injury that may well have lead to his demise (my conclusion from the damage the helmet incurred).

The comment about wearing helmets while driving is quite appro as well. A brain surgeon in Oz being interviewed for a road safety campaign opined that there would be far fewer deaths and brain injury victims if car occupants wore helmets.

To me the helmet will save my hearing anything else is a bonus, as regards to cool. I can not see that catching on down the Essex high street. IMHO.

Why not leave it as free choice? After all we don't all wear Y-fronts.:ugh:

Helmets
 

Cannot imagine anything worse than flying for 8 hours in a helmet. Like others I was glad to give mine up when leaving the military.
Remember you do not, like me, speak for all North Sea pilots so stop trying to ram your ideas down our throats. At present there are far more important issues on the North Sea like lack of communications and no radar cover past 80 nm which seem to be taking forever to sort out.

P3 do you fly north sea? or commercially at all for that matter? If not then you probably don't appreciate the type of weather conditions that we have to endure, severe turbulance is not uncommon and with all the switches knobs and buttons above and around our heads i would feel alot safer wearing a helmet than not. On nearly all platforms at some stage one member of the crew has to get out of the helicopter and on the rigs All personell working outside are supposed to wear some sort of head protection.
If pilots find helmets uncomfortable then surely it should be our decision if we want to wear them.
As to your idea that we want to wear them to look "cool". I dont see gucci stamped all over the immersion suits that we wear!!! and if we did want to look cool who would we be trying to impress?.......the hairey a**sed HLO on the heli deck?? :cool:

Helmets On
 

Not much point doing all that HUET training if you are unconcious?
We had a quick count up over a few beers the other night and out of the hundred or so pilots in the company 15 had been in the water at some point in their offshore careers. Some more than once!
I guess at the end of the day its a personal choice but for me its a no brainer - helmets on. :ok:

Some very interesting points.
From what I have read I confirm my thoughts that the North Sea needs helmets and the sooner the better, I do believe that it should be a personal choice so for those that do not wish to wear them may not.
My question is now how do we go about getting them provided? Should we go through BALPA and leave it to them?
As with all issues like this it takes a vast amount of time for anything to be agreed. For those that don't want to wait that long can we just start wearing helmets if you already have them?
If we do and the operator starts to object can you carry on wearing it?:confused:

TTT,

Having done both SAR and NS, there is no comparison between the environments. The only commonality is the sea. The bottom line is that when NS, if you loose an engine, you will fly away; at times in SAR, if you loose an engine you will crash. That is why SAR pilots wear helmets. And certainly in the machines I have flown, I have never knocked a switch with my helmet, even in the mountains where the turbulence is far greater than anything in the NS.

Helmets are bloody uncomfortable in hot weather and in my opinion offer poorer noise attenuation than a standard headset.

For my money, STASS before helmets.