Ec 130's are good for one thing and that is carrying passengers, and anyone who thinks you cant put full pax and a heap of fuel is full of S#$t.

An average 130 is about 1450kg (Air con, leather,etc) and all up weight is is 2427 kg so with 977 kg up you sleave you can take full fuel (437 kg) which still leaves you an average pax weight of 77 kg and keeping in mind that is with full fuel.

Myself i think 130's are a waste of money compared to a A119 for similar dollars but great passenger machine.

Not to mention all up external weight is 2800kg so at all up internal weight you are getting out of a confined area without to much trouble.

We need Capt. Hollywood to comment on the flying of the 130, as he has just got his new painted machine. Even with his old machine, he must have flown around solo most of the time, so would know whether it is a Passenger machine ... or a Pilot machine??!! :8

Flew one earlier this year for over 100 hours in the African bush up at 3000' (DA 5000'-6000'). Generally very reliable on maintenance although non-structural items such as baggage compartment walls, door struts etc were a bit flimsy with crappy fasteners. Due to the heat we had two cracks appear in the perspex front canopy, but not in the vision of the pilot. Stop-drilled and added clear tape patch that sorted it out. Had a starter/gen. that needed replacement. The 100 hour can actually be done very quick with great access, but I think the 300 hour is a lot more in-depth. Other issues were sand ingestion despite the filter (Mechanic recommended changing the fuel filter element at half of the scheduled time), and the air-con couldn't cope with prolonged use in the 40 degree OAT.
On the electronics side we had the torque pick-up/sensor that started to under-read due to it moving from its mounted position (giving 'fails' on the power-check).

The main thing seems to be the usual bad Eurocopter support in the way of timely spares. For example we were warned that a new flight control hydraulic servo would take many months to arrive if needed; unlike the Bell 206 where the units themselves could be stripped and stuff like 'O' rings and seals replaced individually - seems like Eurocopter want a complete exchange. Didn't come to that though. Overall the EC130 B4 was a good choice for our passenger flights even though nearly all our fuel was from drums and mechanics had to be flown in. It is a B3 under the skin (same assembly line) and pretty tough.
Love the wide-track skids which eliminate minor slopes compared to the BH206! power was good although watch the crazy (180 ltr/hr) fuel consumption and don't expect a huge leap in power when going through ETL (on the plus side IGE hover is a bit higher).

FLUG

Thanks Flug and to everyone else for thier replies Flug was your filter an IBF or standard partical sep and were you useing the 1 plt/7 pax seat configuration or the 1 plt/6 pax :ok: cheers for your help again

I cant imagine how little fuel you can take if you go for the 1 pilot plus 7 pax might be able to do about .2:ok:

10 cents worth
 

Guess most of my pax are full of sh-t because 90% weigh more than 77kg and I never take full fuel with 7 pob. The machine does fly at 2800kg but I wouldn't like to try and poke it into a confined area at that weight. Have flown a number of these machines over the past 5 years and all weigh in around the 1500kg mark empty, They are float equipped which adds around 60kg. Very reliable machine but needs to be as parts from manufacturer are hard to come by especially the engine. As previous posters have said the punters love them and the pilots don't. If you want a smooth ride look somewhere else, vibration level sucks and EC don't have a fix.

Corella Killer

Was using the standard dust-filter (particle sep.) for the engine intake. The filter came into action by a switch on the panel or in our case a button on the collective. The aircraft was in the pilot plus six pax configuration, that was about the optimum because 90% of the time we were taking pax luggage too. The dust and sand conditions were in the nature of very fine particles so that the standard filter didn't get all of it by a long way; not helped by the massive rotorwash recirculation compared to the JetRanger we were also using. Our main solution was to use pegged down shadecloth plus tyres to make a helipad for the most frequent use, to avoid the dust issue.

Have a look in the POH at the fuel filter emergency; it is quite severe and probably deserves a 'red' light rather than amber on the panel (can get Ng oscillations, limited power leading to flame-out). You could carry a spare and our mechanic showed me how to fit it in an emergency which was quite simple; at that time we were mainly worried about having to make a precautionary landing with the warning light on, and then being trapped in the middle of the bush with all the animals around, so it was an emergency get-you-home solution (rather than getting chowed!)

Our aircraft did really vibrate with just the pilot, but put 3-4 pax plus bags in there and it is 'tuned' for that typical loading, so you get a much smoother ride.
Hope this helps
Flug

Flug

Have we met? I was in 'the bush' with three 407's and a B3 with a camera on it......

farmpilot

Farmpilot,

Sounds familiar! hanging out with a certain Billioniare who owns Jimmy Hendrick's Woodstock guitar?... how's it going?

Flug:8

You know I couldn't possibly talk about that.......:cool:

You back down south again? I was with Peter P in October shooting Elephants, I see the B4 has gone back :(

Anyone had any hook time on the 130 whats it good for 1000kg with half fuel

Check with Paul Spring of Phoenix Heliflight in Canada as he uses his EC130 in total utility configuration.

Cheers

corella killer
Yes, a sport that I also used to indulge in, but not now with R22 blades. I suggest that you check the integrity and make up the blades re your enquiry - or - fly a bit higher when you get into one.

The best way was to - sneak up - flat out and super low from downwind in a 47, usually on a flock of a couple of hundred of them that were feeding on a stack of sorghum that was loose on the ground.

They would take off and - in panic as you rolled slightly to give the old blade whack, whack trick - anything up to a dozen would roll right on their backs and pulling full power go straight down - from two to four feet.

yeah, I can be perverse too.
tet

Whats that got to do with 130s:confused:

Nothing;

I simply took the cue from your pen name.

Where did you get that from, a phantom comic?

Ec130 B4
 

Requesting info from any B4 pilots,
1) is this type good for sling work 2) what speed and f/f do you normal see near gross wt
3) how comfy are the seats after a couple of hours
4) does it handle similar to a AS350 b2
5) any rumors of external gross wt increase

Thanks mel

Never did sling work with one. I think I would prefer the B3. Depending on your age any seat sucks after a few hours. Nice set up from the left side though.
I did find that a B2 will fly past a B4 on a hot day loaded.

My opinion based on my limited experience:

1) is this type good for sling work
There are a lot better. But if you want a people mover that can lift, rather than a lifter that needs to move people, it's worth consideration.
2) what speed and f/f do you normal see near gross wt
Depends what you are lifting but 80 knots is ball park figure. There's a lot of aerodynamic drag in the wide cabin to add to the load drag, increasingly so as the nose goes down. AS350 probably better.
3) how comfy are the seats after a couple of hours
Better than any Bell seat I've sat in.
4) does it handle similar to a AS350 b2
No experience on B2 but probably not
5) any rumors of external gross wt increase
I don't see this as a practical necessity. Gross MAUW external is 2800 kg, hook rated @ 1160kg. All the figures come together at low fuel. You can lift the max but you don't have a lot of power reserve to play with.

If you remove seats to add performance then c of g will be on aft limit, unless you're a big 'un. You will run out of forward cyclic. Ballast in nose helps but I felt that the machine seemed to be unstable fore and aft compared to lateral.
LH seating is okay but nose of the skid always seemed to be in the way of the sight picture.
It's a long scan from the load to the VEMD when things are getting tricky.

I'm sure I've seen Phoenix Heliflight doing external load ops with an EC130 (possibly in one of Ned Dawson's or Mike Reno's photoshoots?), and their website says that they also fly B2 Squirrels, so they might be an outfit to talk to.

I/C

EC130 b4
 

Thanks to everyone for the input, Mel

EC130
 

Does anyone know the width of the EC130, in regards to the Landing Gear footprint?? Interested in knowing the skid tube distance apart for measurements on a trolley and trailer?

Maybe someone could reach for their FM in the Dimensions section, or post the 3D schematic up here for me ... Please :ok: KP

American Eurocopter - EC130 Specifications

This what you're looking for?

Just for comparison...

Flight Manual:

http://img299.imageshack.us/img299/3...mensionsfm.jpg

Training Manual:

http://img695.imageshack.us/img695/1...mensionstm.jpg

Thanks No-ID and Eivissa ... exactly what I was after! :ok:

Thanks to the Moderator too for combining into topic .. I did Forum search on EC130, but didn't come up with all that info. Good work!

I learned 1 thing with the 130-don't believe everything you hear about her especially the post 2005 ones! My advise is to study her, get to know her and then go to fly her. Do not expect a B3+ as she is not a B3 and handles and responds differently despite having the same engine and drivetrain(except tail) + dual hydraulics. Once you understand and know her dynamics and get comfortable with her as a machine with her own place in life you will be shocked at what she can do. Remember that she has a massive rotor rpm variance for noise and performance determined by your fenestron pedal position. You fly her wrong you can be as much as 15rrpm too low or too high and all should understand the impact on lift and thus power which leads to a lot of myths in my opinion around her performance. I know the B2 and B3 along with many other types and the one which demands respect is the 130. Maybe because it is not her reputation to be able to work/take heavy loads/be utility. She does not look like a workhorse. If you allow yourselve however you will soon learn her capabilities is surprising. Been there and did the 42 degree thing, 4600ft, 3 crew, 141kg patient and flew 2 hrs to the nearest hospital without hitting the top of the yellow range. She enters the yellow range quickly but then it feels like that Arriel is telling you "eventually I can work a bit". Pls, i am not contesting graphs and safety, just trying to say go fly her and fly her as a 130 and not a B3/407/B2 or anything else and you will be surprised I am sure.

Maintenance on her is a non event. That fenestron makes her lower maintenance than the 350 and you score dual hydraulics. In my experience if you know what to look for like the Squirrel you have ample warning in most cases to do preventative maintenance. The fenestron is on a 1000hr check.

Agree, any in UK?
 

Good points Victor Papa, they are quality machines that can do a whole lot more than pax-heavy scenic flights. I found it was like flying a luxury Mercedes but with some serious brawn and good reliability in austere circumstances. Maybe at that level people just go up to a twin. I am surprised that there doesn't appear to be at least one on the UK register, unless someone can enlighten me?

Flug

EC130 - Medium Density (8 seat) Version
 

I am interested if anyone has information to share on the 8 seat (4 + 4) configured EC130 or 'Eco-Star'.

In this configuration The EC130 must be the greatest (pax) capacity, single engine machine on the market. How does it perform when loaded with 8 pax?

Does anyone have a excel weight and balance calculator for this configuration of the EC130 as I'm interested to see what distribution of weights it can handle and still be inside the envelope.

The big tourism operators (Maverick, Blue Hawaiaan, Grand Canyon) who use this aircraft type all seem to have the conventional 7 (4 3) seat setup. Does any operator in the scenic market have the 8 seat configuration EC130?

Looking at Maverick's website, they fly the 4 + 4 configuration.

I/C

Just to clarify , I don't not think there is an EC130 version that can carry 8 pax plus pilot. As IC pointed out Maverick fly the 8 seat version that carries 7 pax plus pilot . Most of the tours seem to be 3.5 hours with a landing for snacks. So I would assume they can do 2.5 fllight hours fully loaded ( I don't think they refuel in the canyon) . I am not sure if they tend to load the lighter people in the front seats to avoid c of g issues. I do know that many of the operators weigh the passengers to ensure they are flying within limits.

https://www.bluehawaiian.com/about/b...t_helicopters/

BH fly 7 seat config , I expect due to the extra weight of the flotation gear.

Any decent offer for almost new AS350 B3 or B4 (EC130)
sale, lease (dry, wet) ASAP for not less than 3 months from now
with possilbe 6 month extensions....
(short hook is an advance, for up to 800kg testing light works puropses)
:cool:

Ec130 B4
 

Futher to this discussion regarding the 130 would anyone know where I can get my hands on a flight manual for this aircraft. I'm doing an engineering project and quite a bit of the information I need is contained in the flight manual. Any help would be hugely appreciated.

Thanks

Trev:ok:

EC 130 sling ops
 

Greetings all,

Just after some feedback on sling operations on the 130 thanks.

I would imagine lifting must be a better vert ref from the left seat, vs say the 350 from the right?

However,it would also seem a large change of view from head out the door, back to the check the (usual) position of the VEMD for the FLI ?

We are not planning a great deal of sling work, just the occasional lifting with a 10m line and possibly the occasional fire-bucket. (And yes, I know the die-hards will tell me the B3 is the go. But we're getting a 130, so there!)

Eurocopter also seem to offer a few varients on the hook options, including a 1350kg option. Surely only applicable in nice cold climates? Doubt we could get 1350 off the ground in the heat we'll be playing in. Opinions?

Any other insights would be welcomed.

Thanks in advance. Fly safe.

Isn't the B4 limited to 1160kg on the hook anyway?

They may be offering a "1350 kg" hook just don't put 1350 kg on it.

RVDT you are correct. the B4 is limited but not on performance as such but the different mounting of the cargo swing which is more aft than the 350.

Thanks guys,

But i'm a tad confused... (not having access to the RFM only the tech sup),

if the 130 is limited on the hook, why are they offering the 1300kg option? (I know they're French, but there must be some logic?)

Ta...

where do they do that??

According to their homepage: Civil helicopter, ecureuil helicopter, helicopter manufacturer - Eurocopter, an EADS company

they don't.

cheers

Gee thanks for the time wasting Nubian, (such a cynic - you must either work in management or check and training - and probably ex-military!)

But AS I SAID... in the Eurocopter EC130 Tech Info;
Page 15, Doc Ref # 06-27016A, and Comm Ref 06-27016-00 offer up the 1350 hook option!

So if anyone actually helpful out there could shed light, it would be appreciated.

(Nubian, you can now go and check my spelling and grammar)

Thanks to all others... :ugh:

Maybe commonality with other models (i.e.) B3 or a heavier duty hook, who knows.

Maybe it is known as a "1350 kg hook". You can fit it to a B4 but you can only lift 1160 kg on it due to other limitations which are not specific in the data available to Joe Operator.

Ask your friendly dealer or tech rep!

Myskyheli,

I'm sure your precious 30 seconds of wasted time was a terrible loss, I appologize so much, (really didn't account on such a thin-skinned Aussie)

Now, why don't you pick up the phone and call them then if you have questions instead of asking a question you don't seem to like the answers to here? then you can enlighten us here with your findings later...

Now, unsure about your willingness to listen further, I'd just add that the 130 has the same engine/drive (except the fan) as the B3+ and it is a heavier basic ship, it has the same AUW as the B3+ (for external ops)

Just cause we use 2ton slings on the hook on the B3, doesn't allow us to lift 2tons with it.

Btw, your guess is wrong on all accounts.....as I am a just another civilian trained line utilitypilot. As for grammar/spelling, I'm sure I have my fair share of mistakes too so I don't bother with others.

ah, well now I'd just wasted more of your time.... :ugh:

Ok, before we have a fight over a cargo swing here is my guess. EC incorporates some hooks and swings into their maintenance Program as standard and these are part of the SB kits. These inspections are addressed in the Airframe Maintenance Program and their inspections reflects on the standard servicing schedule. All slings and swings are not part of the EC program and can only be fitted under a STC and they are not addressed in the standard maintenance program.

Now, Onboard or Siren for instance does not manufacture a cargo hook per aircraft type but in weight classes. So, if you fit the 1350kg hook to the 130 it can lift 1350kg and if it is in the EC catalogue it is a standard option one-however the airframe is limited to 1160kg due to the mounting of the swing and thus how much the airframe can take. Why 1350kg hook, because that is the weight class of the hook and can be used on B3 for instance. They will not go recertify and design and build a new hook so it states 1160kg specifically. There are 850kg hooks on the market you can also fit to the 130/B3/B2-they are closer to the B2 limit and obviously slightly cheaper.

Hope this helps????????????????